Hilary Davies

In this episode, Luke talks to Hilary Davies, with a focus on music therapy and neurodiversity. Hilary Davies is a freelance music therapist currently specialising in working with autistic adults, including recently-diagnosed autistic adults and autistic adults with co-occurring conditions such as complex PTSD. She is also working towards a PhD on the topic of neurodiversity paradigm-informed music therapy practice with autistic people at the Guildhall School of Music and Drama, funded by the Guildhall EDI in Music Therapy PhD Studentship. Hilary has also worked in a variety of other music therapy roles, including setting up and leading projects for Music Place North West (in hospice care) and Entelechy Arts. Hilary trained as a music therapist at the Guildhall School of Music and Drama, graduating with distinction in 2019. She also studied Music at the University of Cambridge (Gonville and Caius College). Prior to training as a music therapist, Hilary worked as a music teacher and freelance performer for more than a decade. Alongside her research on music therapy with autistic people from a neurodiversity paradigm-perspective (a topic on which she has published as well as presenting at various conferences including BAMT 2021, European Music Therapy Conference 2022, World Music Therapy Congress 2023 and guest lecturing at various universities) Hilary has research interests in music therapy with adults with profound and multiple learning disabilities, and music therapy and disability studies, including the experience of disabled music therapists (she is currently involved in a Music Therapy Charity funded research project on this topic with Beth Pickard). She is the founder and co-ordinator of the BAMT Support Network for Disabled Music Therapists, and advocates in various ways for the increased inclusion and understanding of disabled people within the music therapy profession.  Links  Amanda Baggs - ‘In My Language’ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnylM1hI2jc  References Davies, H. (2022) “Autism is a way of being”: An Insider Perspective on Neurodiversity, music therapy and social justice” in British Journal of Music Therapy 36 (1).  Devlin K (2018) “How do i see you, and what does that mean for us? An autoethnographic study” in Music Therapy Perspectives 36(2).  Harris, T. A. (2012). I'm OK, you're OK. Random House.  Milton, D. (2012) “On the ontological status of autism: the ‘double empathy problem’” in Disability &amp; Society 27 (6)  Pickard B, Thompson G, Metell M, Roginsky E., Elefant C. (2020) “‘It’s Not What’s Done, But Why It’s Done’: Music therapists’ understanding of normalisation, maximisation and the neurodiversity movement” in Voices: A World Forum for Music Therapy 20(3)  Price, D (2022) Unmasking Autism: The Power of Embracing our Hidden Neurodiversity New York: Penguin Random House  Singer, J (1998 / 2017) NeuroDiversity: The Birth of an Idea. Kindle Edition.  Shiloh, C.J. &amp; Blythe Lagasse, A. (2014) “Sensory Friendly Concerts: A community music therapy initiative to promote Neurodiversity” in International Journal of Community Music 7 (1)  Walker, N. (2012) “Throw Away the Master’s Tools: Liberating Ourselves from the Pathology Paradigm” in  J. Bascom (ed.)Loud Hands: Autistic People, Speaking Washington: Autistic Self-Advocacy Network.  Walker, N. (2021) Neuroqueer Heresies: Notes on the Neurodiversity Paradigm, Autistic Empowerment, and Postnormal Possibilities Fort Worth: Autonomous Press.  Winter P (2012) Loud hands and loud voices. In: Bascom J (ed.) Loud Hands: Autistic People, Speaking. Washington, DC: Autistic Self-Advocacy Network.

In this episode, Luke talks to Hilary Davies, with a focus on music therapy and neurodiversity. Hilary Davies is a freelance music therapist currently specialising in working with autistic adults, including recently-diagnosed autistic adults and autistic adults with co-occurring conditions such as complex PTSD. She is also working towards a PhD on the topic of neurodiversity paradigm-informed music therapy practice with autistic people at the Guildhall School of Music and Drama, funded by the Guildhall EDI in Music Therapy PhD Studentship. Hilary has also worked in a variety of other music therapy roles, including setting up and leading projects for Music Place North West (in hospice care) and Entelechy Arts. Hilary trained as a music therapist at the Guildhall School of Music and Drama, graduating with distinction in 2019. She also studied Music at the University of Cambridge (Gonville and Caius College). Prior to training as a music therapist, Hilary worked as a music teacher and freelance performer for more than a decade. Alongside her research on music therapy with autistic people from a neurodiversity paradigm-perspective (a topic on which she has published as well as presenting at various conferences including BAMT 2021, European Music Therapy Conference 2022, World Music Therapy Congress 2023 and guest lecturing at various universities) Hilary has research interests in music therapy with adults with profound and multiple learning disabilities, and music therapy and disability studies, including the experience of disabled music therapists (she is currently involved in a Music Therapy Charity funded research project on this topic with Beth Pickard). She is the founder and co-ordinator of the BAMT Support Network for Disabled Music Therapists, and advocates in various ways for the increased inclusion and understanding of disabled people within the music therapy profession. Links Amanda Baggs - ‘In My Language’ - <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnylM1hI2jc" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnylM1hI2jc</a> References Davies, H. (2022) “Autism is a way of being”: An Insider Perspective on Neurodiversity, music therapy and social justice” in British Journal of Music Therapy 36 (1). Devlin K (2018) “How do i see you, and what does that mean for us? An autoethnographic study” in Music Therapy Perspectives 36(2). Harris, T. A. (2012). I'm OK, you're OK. Random House. Milton, D. (2012) “On the ontological status of autism: the ‘double empathy problem’” in Disability &amp; Society 27 (6) Pickard B, Thompson G, Metell M, Roginsky E., Elefant C. (2020) “‘It’s Not What’s Done, But Why It’s Done’: Music therapists’ understanding of normalisation, maximisation and the neurodiversity movement” in Voices: A World Forum for Music Therapy 20(3) Price, D (2022) Unmasking Autism: The Power of Embracing our Hidden Neurodiversity New York: Penguin Random House Singer, J (1998 / 2017) NeuroDiversity: The Birth of an Idea. Kindle Edition. Shiloh, C.J. &amp; Blythe Lagasse, A. (2014) “Sensory Friendly Concerts: A community music therapy initiative to promote Neurodiversity” in International Journal of Community Music 7 (1) Walker, N. (2012) “Throw Away the Master’s Tools: Liberating Ourselves from the Pathology Paradigm” in  J. Bascom (ed.)Loud Hands: Autistic People, Speaking Washington: Autistic Self-Advocacy Network. Walker, N. (2021) Neuroqueer Heresies: Notes on the Neurodiversity Paradigm, Autistic Empowerment, and Postnormal Possibilities Fort Worth: Autonomous Press. Winter P (2012) Loud hands and loud voices. In: Bascom J (ed.) Loud Hands: Autistic People, Speaking. Washington, DC: Autistic Self-Advocacy Network.

Ep 76 Hilary Davies

Robert Mitchell

 Luke spoke to the musician Robert Mitchell about his life as a creative artist and the importance of music and other arts to society and, more broadly, for humankind.  Robert Mitchell is one of the most significant voices in British jazz. Multi-faceted creator, pianist, keyboardist, composer, improviser, writer, poet and so much more. He is a relentless seeker and thinker, encompassing many art forms, musical genres and constantly pushing the envelope. In the last year he has released the extremely contrasting albums “Hold The Light/The New Resistance' DOF004 (from his unit TRUE THINK) and 'Towards The Flame' 577 Records (from the improv trio The Flame). He has released 13 albums.   Robert is a throwback to the powerful tradition of artistic mastery in pursuit of transcendence. He is proud to have been a Steinway artist since 2009. He was MD on the successful BBC4 television programme ‘Jazz 625 Live: For One Night Only’ which won the British Broadcasting Award. He has played with Billy Harper, Greg Osby, Courtney Pine CBE, Alicia Olatuja, Orphy Robinson, Steve Coleman, Phil Ranelin, Omar Puente, Ernesto Simpson, Daymé Arocena, Jason Rebello, Shirley Smart, Basement Jaxx, Dub Colossus, Daniel Casimir, Joshua Redman, Jacqui Dankworth MBE, and many others. Robert Mitchell’s works have been performed by the Grammy-winning Bournemouth Symphony Chorus and the London Sinfonietta, amongst others. He is a sought-for composer and known as an innovator with a distinct, unique voice.  Robert has performed solo piano since the 90s. Recent concerts include Romania, Derby, Coventry, London with more on the way this year in Newcastle, Brighton and Bristol. His 2020 album The Rainbow Mountain/Can We Care' - was a near 40 min improvisation (completed with one of his original songs - live at the Jazz Cafe, London). Solo performances now include original music, Classical, Jazz, improvisations, left hand only, inside piano and poetry. He releases his second collection of poetry later this year - on Common Tone Press.    Robert is a Professor of Jazz Piano (Guildhall School Of Music And Drama), Piano Lecturer (Leeds Conservatoire) and Piano teacher at YMM.     https://robertmitchell.bandcamp.com/album/hold-the-light-the-new-resistance-dof0004  https://twitter.com/robertmitchellm  https://www.instagram.com/robertmitchellmusic/

Luke spoke to the musician Robert Mitchell about his life as a creative artist and the importance of music and other arts to society and, more broadly, for humankind. Robert Mitchell is one of the most significant voices in British jazz. Multi-faceted creator, pianist, keyboardist, composer, improviser, writer, poet and so much more. He is a relentless seeker and thinker, encompassing many art forms, musical genres and constantly pushing the envelope. In the last year he has released the extremely contrasting albums “Hold The Light/The New Resistance' DOF004 (from his unit TRUE THINK) and 'Towards The Flame' 577 Records (from the improv trio The Flame). He has released 13 albums. Robert is a throwback to the powerful tradition of artistic mastery in pursuit of transcendence. He is proud to have been a Steinway artist since 2009. He was MD on the successful BBC4 television programme ‘Jazz 625 Live: For One Night Only’ which won the British Broadcasting Award. He has played with Billy Harper, Greg Osby, Courtney Pine CBE, Alicia Olatuja, Orphy Robinson, Steve Coleman, Phil Ranelin, Omar Puente, Ernesto Simpson, Daymé Arocena, Jason Rebello, Shirley Smart, Basement Jaxx, Dub Colossus, Daniel Casimir, Joshua Redman, Jacqui Dankworth MBE, and many others. Robert Mitchell’s works have been performed by the Grammy-winning Bournemouth Symphony Chorus and the London Sinfonietta, amongst others. He is a sought-for composer and known as an innovator with a distinct, unique voice. Robert has performed solo piano since the 90s. Recent concerts include Romania, Derby, Coventry, London with more on the way this year in Newcastle, Brighton and Bristol. His 2020 album The Rainbow Mountain/Can We Care' - was a near 40 min improvisation (completed with one of his original songs - live at the Jazz Cafe, London). Solo performances now include original music, Classical, Jazz, improvisations, left hand only, inside piano and poetry. He releases his second collection of poetry later this year - on Common Tone Press.   Robert is a Professor of Jazz Piano (Guildhall School Of Music And Drama), Piano Lecturer (Leeds Conservatoire) and Piano teacher at YMM.   <a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frobertmitchell.bandcamp.com%2Falbum%2Fhold-the-light-the-new-resistance-dof0004&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cluke.annesley%40uwe.ac.uk%7C832fdaf0487648548ea808db6ea7b7f0%7C07ef1208413c4b5e9cdd64ef305754f0%7C0%7C0%7C638225438847745892%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=pEiVXCEYN%2FpsHnOVeIy6XC7sy6Xiny2QuGr5Q3YbTYU%3D&amp;reserved=0" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">https://robertmitchell.bandcamp.com/album/hold-the-light-the-new-resistance-dof0004</a> <a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Frobertmitchellm&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cluke.annesley%40uwe.ac.uk%7C832fdaf0487648548ea808db6ea7b7f0%7C07ef1208413c4b5e9cdd64ef305754f0%7C0%7C0%7C638225438847745892%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=YfiagyxyIRxJPeFZ2yFOwxyN6%2F5xmh9kASJQVM0t3g4%3D&amp;reserved=0" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/robertmitchellm</a> <a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.instagram.com%2Frobertmitchellmusic%2F&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cluke.annesley%40uwe.ac.uk%7C832fdaf0487648548ea808db6ea7b7f0%7C07ef1208413c4b5e9cdd64ef305754f0%7C0%7C0%7C638225438847745892%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=0R4C1GujpjW0T3%2FDDkLmAtfSx8KBsNmshDmnsppon9c%3D&amp;reserved=0" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.instagram.com/robertmitchellmusic/</a>

Ep 75 Robert Mitchell

  Luke spoke to Preet Kalsi about her musical upbringing, and her training and subsequent work as a music therapist. The conversation also explored the relationship between psychodynamic and indigenous perspectives in her work.   Gurpreet Kaur Kalsi is from Sabah, Malaysian Borneo, and of Punjabi and Kadazan (Indigenous to Sabah) heritage. She is a music therapist and GIM therapist. She works with clients of all ages with psychiatric and medical conditions in healthcare, community, education, and corporate settings. Her work navigates psychodynamic approaches with culture and Indigenous concepts towards the dynamics of life and healing within oneself, the community, and the environment. She has recently begun incorporating EMDR with music therapy and GIM in the treatment of trauma.    Instruments referred to during the conversation   https://youtu.be/BLFSV79KwnQ    - the knobbed gongs that are played communally. It accompanies the Sumazau dance at Pesta Magavau, the rice Harvest Festival in May, and at all social events and gatherings. https://youtu.be/1yKZNKNZhrc   - the sompoton. played by blowing and drawing air.   https://youtu.be/kHj9Zrg_VxU   - the tongkungon - a bamboo zither for playing the 'tagung' (gong) rhythm pattern. The strings are bamboo strips cut from the bamboo node.   References  Colonialism and Music Therapy Interlocutors (CAMTI) Collective (2022) Colonialism and Music Therapy. Barcelona Publishers.  Pugh-Kitingan, Jacqueline. (2014). Balancing the Human and Spiritual Worlds:  Ritual, Music and Dance Among Dusunic Societies in Sabah.  Yearbook for Traditional Music, 46:172-192.  Pugh-Kitingan, Jacqueline, Hanafi Hussin &amp; Judeth John Baptist.  (2009).  Symbolic Interactions between the Seen and the Unseen through Gong Music and Dance in the Lotud Mamahui Pogun.  Borneo Research Journal, 3:221-237.  Pugh-Kitingan, Jacqueline, Hanafi Hussin &amp; Judeth John Baptist. (2009). A Conduit Between the Seen and Unseen:  Comparing the Ritual Roles of Drumming and Gong Ensemble Music in the Mamahui Pogun of the Lotud of Tuaran and the Monogit of the Kadazan of Penampang, Sabah.  Tirai Panggung.  Jurnal Seni Persembahan, 9:98-123.  Pugh-Kitingan, Jacqueline &amp; Judeth John Baptist.  (2009).  Music for Cleansing the Universe—Drumming and Gong Ensemble Music in the Mamahui Pogun Ceremonies of the Lotud Dusun of Tuaran, Sabah, Malaysia.  Borneo Research Bulletin. 40:249-276.

Luke spoke to Preet Kalsi about her musical upbringing, and her training and subsequent work as a music therapist. The conversation also explored the relationship between psychodynamic and indigenous perspectives in her work. Gurpreet Kaur Kalsi is from Sabah, Malaysian Borneo, and of Punjabi and Kadazan (Indigenous to Sabah) heritage. She is a music therapist and GIM therapist. She works with clients of all ages with psychiatric and medical conditions in healthcare, community, education, and corporate settings. Her work navigates psychodynamic approaches with culture and Indigenous concepts towards the dynamics of life and healing within oneself, the community, and the environment. She has recently begun incorporating EMDR with music therapy and GIM in the treatment of trauma. Instruments referred to during the conversation <a href="https://youtu.be/BLFSV79KwnQ" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank"> https://youtu.be/BLFSV79KwnQ</a> - the knobbed gongs that are played communally. It accompanies the Sumazau dance at Pesta Magavau, the rice Harvest Festival in May, and at all social events and gatherings. <a href="https://youtu.be/1yKZNKNZhrc" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/1yKZNKNZhrc</a> - the sompoton. played by blowing and drawing air. <a href="https://youtu.be/kHj9Zrg_VxU" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank"> https://youtu.be/kHj9Zrg_VxU</a> - the tongkungon - a bamboo zither for playing the 'tagung' (gong) rhythm pattern. The strings are bamboo strips cut from the bamboo node. References Colonialism and Music Therapy Interlocutors (CAMTI) Collective (2022) Colonialism and Music Therapy. Barcelona Publishers. Pugh-Kitingan, Jacqueline. (2014). Balancing the Human and Spiritual Worlds:  Ritual, Music and Dance Among Dusunic Societies in Sabah.  Yearbook for Traditional Music, 46:172-192. Pugh-Kitingan, Jacqueline, Hanafi Hussin &amp; Judeth John Baptist.  (2009).  Symbolic Interactions between the Seen and the Unseen through Gong Music and Dance in the Lotud Mamahui Pogun.  Borneo Research Journal, 3:221-237. Pugh-Kitingan, Jacqueline, Hanafi Hussin &amp; Judeth John Baptist. (2009). A Conduit Between the Seen and Unseen:  Comparing the Ritual Roles of Drumming and Gong Ensemble Music in the Mamahui Pogun of the Lotud of Tuaran and the Monogit of the Kadazan of Penampang, Sabah.  Tirai Panggung.  Jurnal Seni Persembahan, 9:98-123. Pugh-Kitingan, Jacqueline &amp; Judeth John Baptist.  (2009).  Music for Cleansing the Universe—Drumming and Gong Ensemble Music in the Mamahui Pogun Ceremonies of the Lotud Dusun of Tuaran, Sabah, Malaysia.  Borneo Research Bulletin. 40:249-276.

Ep 74 Preet Kalsi

Giorgos Tsiris

 This episode is Luke's conversation with Giorgos Tsiris, with a focus on spirituality and music therapy.  Born and raised in Athens, Greece, Giorgos moved to London in 2007 for his music therapy training. For the past 14 years, he has worked as a music therapist in diverse palliative care contexts for adults with incurable illnesses, their families and their local communities. He has developed collaborative community and intergenerational projects disrupting societal assumptions about death and dying, and his work has received national awards and informed similar arts initiatives internationally. Alongside his practice, Giorgos has a multifaceted research portfolio with extensive experience in issues pertaining to service evaluation and professionalisation in music therapy and within the wider field of arts and health, and in 2014 he co-authored two books on service evaluation and research ethics respectively. His doctorate focused on spirituality and its place in music therapy. Through an ethnographic lens, his research has brought to the fore the ‘doing’ of spirituality, its messiness and its performance within everyday music therapy contexts. Giorgos is the founding editor of Approaches: An Interdisciplinary Journal of Music Therapy, and in 2022 he co-chaired the 12th European Music Therapy Conference. He currently serves as Senior Lecturer in Music Therapy at Queen Margaret University and the Arts Lead at St Columba’s Hospice Care, Edinburgh, Scotland.    References:     Bucar, L. (2022). Stealing my religion: Not just any cultural appropriation. Harvard University Press.    MacKian, S. (2012). Everyday spirituality: Social and spatial worlds of enchantment. Palgrave Macmillan.  Tsiris, G. (2017). Music therapy and spirituality: An international survey of music therapists’ perceptions. Nordic Journal of Music Therapy, 26(4), 293-319. Tsiris, G. (2018). Performing spirituality in music therapy: Towards action, context and the everyday (Doctoral dissertation, Goldsmiths, University of London). https://research.gold.ac.uk/id/eprint/23037/  Tsiris, G. (2021). Tracing spirituality in everyday music therapy contexts: Methodological reflections. In K. Hendricks &amp; J. Boyce-Tillman &amp; (Eds.), Authentic connection: Music, spirituality and wellbeing (Chapter 10). Peter Lang.   Tsiris, G., &amp; Ansdell, G. (2019). Exploring the spiritual in music. Approaches: An Interdisciplinary Journal of Music Therapy, 11(1), 3-8. https://approaches.gr/tsiris-e20191124/

This episode is Luke's conversation with Giorgos Tsiris, with a focus on spirituality and music therapy. Born and raised in Athens, Greece, Giorgos moved to London in 2007 for his music therapy training. For the past 14 years, he has worked as a music therapist in diverse palliative care contexts for adults with incurable illnesses, their families and their local communities. He has developed collaborative community and intergenerational projects disrupting societal assumptions about death and dying, and his work has received national awards and informed similar arts initiatives internationally. Alongside his practice, Giorgos has a multifaceted research portfolio with extensive experience in issues pertaining to service evaluation and professionalisation in music therapy and within the wider field of arts and health, and in 2014 he co-authored two books on service evaluation and research ethics respectively. His doctorate focused on spirituality and its place in music therapy. Through an ethnographic lens, his research has brought to the fore the ‘doing’ of spirituality, its messiness and its performance within everyday music therapy contexts. Giorgos is the founding editor of Approaches: An Interdisciplinary Journal of Music Therapy, and in 2022 he co-chaired the 12th European Music Therapy Conference. He currently serves as Senior Lecturer in Music Therapy at Queen Margaret University and the Arts Lead at St Columba’s Hospice Care, Edinburgh, Scotland. References: Bucar, L. (2022). Stealing my religion: Not just any cultural appropriation. Harvard University Press. MacKian, S. (2012). Everyday spirituality: Social and spatial worlds of enchantment. Palgrave Macmillan. Tsiris, G. (2017). Music therapy and spirituality: An international survey of music therapists’ perceptions. Nordic Journal of Music Therapy, 26(4), 293-319. Tsiris, G. (2018). Performing spirituality in music therapy: Towards action, context and the everyday (Doctoral dissertation, Goldsmiths, University of London). <a href="https://research.gold.ac.uk/id/eprint/23037/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://research.gold.ac.uk/id/eprint/23037/</a> Tsiris, G. (2021). Tracing spirituality in everyday music therapy contexts: Methodological reflections. In K. Hendricks &amp; J. Boyce-Tillman &amp; (Eds.), Authentic connection: Music, spirituality and wellbeing (Chapter 10). Peter Lang.   Tsiris, G., &amp; Ansdell, G. (2019). Exploring the spiritual in music. Approaches: An Interdisciplinary Journal of Music Therapy, 11(1), 3-8. <a href="https://approaches.gr/tsiris-e20191124/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://approaches.gr/tsiris-e20191124/</a>

Ep 73 Giorgos Tsiris

Episode 72 is Luke’s interview with Dr Dwight Turner. They spoke in December 2022, in person, about psychotherapy and music therapy, intersectionality, music, exotification, Our Price Records, and a dream involving John Lennon and David Bowie’s ‘Life on Mars’. Dr Dwight Turner is Course Leader on the Humanistic Counselling and Psychotherapy Course at the University of Brighton, a PhD Supervisor at their Doctoral College, a psychotherapist and supervisor in private practice.  His latest book Intersections of Privilege and Otherness in Counselling and Psychotherapy was released in February 2021 and is published by Routledge. An activist, writer and public speaker on issues of race, difference and intersectionality in counselling and psychotherapy, Dr Turner can be contacted via his website http://dwightturnercounselling.co.uk, where you can also find his blog, and he can be followed on Twitter at @dturner300 The blog post discussed at the beginning of the interview is  here. References Czyzselska, J. (2022) Queering Psychotherapy. Karnac. Fanon, F. (2008). Black skin, white masks. Grove press. Turner, D. (2021). Intersections of privilege and otherness in counselling and psychotherapy: Mockingbird. Routledge.

Episode 72 is Luke’s interview with Dr Dwight Turner. They spoke in December 2022, in person, about psychotherapy and music therapy, intersectionality, music, exotification, Our Price Records, and a dream involving John Lennon and David Bowie’s ‘Life on Mars’. Dr Dwight Turner is Course Leader on the Humanistic Counselling and Psychotherapy Course at the University of Brighton, a PhD Supervisor at their Doctoral College, a psychotherapist and supervisor in private practice.  His latest book Intersections of Privilege and Otherness in Counselling and Psychotherapy was released in February 2021 and is published by Routledge. An activist, writer and public speaker on issues of race, difference and intersectionality in counselling and psychotherapy, Dr Turner can be contacted via his website <a href="http://dwightturnercounselling.co.uk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://dwightturnercounselling.co.uk</a>, where you can also find his <a href="https://www.dwightturnercounselling.co.uk/library/blog/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">blog</a>, and he can be followed on Twitter at @dturner300 The blog post discussed at the beginning of the interview is <a href="https://www.dwightturnercounselling.co.uk/2022/12/15/decolonise-me-iii-from-the-exotification-to-the-humanity-of-black-masculinity/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> here</a>. References Czyzselska, J. (2022) Queering Psychotherapy. Karnac. Fanon, F. (2008). Black skin, white masks. Grove press. Turner, D. (2021). Intersections of privilege and otherness in counselling and psychotherapy: Mockingbird. Routledge.

Ep 72 Dr Dwight Turner

Denise Wong

In episode 71, Davina Vencatasamy talks to Denise Wong. Originally from Hong Kong, Denise Wong MA BSc, is a self-employed music therapist (HCPC-Registered) based in Bristol, UK. She works with the Bath Aphasia Choir (Stroke Association), Soundwell and NEHK, a community-led group for and by HongKongers living in the UK. Denise appeared on the BAMT Racial Awareness Panel and took part in presentations and roundtables at the 2022 European Conference in Edinburgh. This interview covers intersectional experiences of racial stereotyping, sexism, ageism and ableism, including the word ‘yellow’ as a racial descriptor’, and what it feels like to be a therapist from a minority racial and cultural background, both when working with clients, and within teams of professionals.  Denise Wong (denisewongmusictherapy.co.uk)

In episode 71, Davina Vencatasamy talks to Denise Wong. Originally from Hong Kong, Denise Wong MA BSc, is a self-employed music therapist (HCPC-Registered) based in Bristol, UK. She works with the Bath Aphasia Choir (Stroke Association), Soundwell and NEHK, a community-led group for and by HongKongers living in the UK. Denise appeared on the BAMT Racial Awareness Panel and took part in presentations and roundtables at the 2022 European Conference in Edinburgh. This interview covers intersectional experiences of racial stereotyping, sexism, ageism and ableism, including the word ‘yellow’ as a racial descriptor’, and what it feels like to be a therapist from a minority racial and cultural background, both when working with clients, and within teams of professionals.  <a href="https://www.denisewongmusictherapy.co.uk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Denise Wong (denisewongmusictherapy.co.uk)</a>

Ep 71 Denise Wong

Episode 70 is the fourth and final dispatch from the EMTC conference at Queen Margaret University, Edinburgh, June 2022 (see also episodes 63, 65 and 68). Luke had the opportunity to speak to a genuine music therapy pioneer in the person of Inge Nygaard Pedersen.  Inge Nygaard Pedersen is an Associate Professor, Emerita, PhD, Aalborg University, Denmark. She is the founder of the Aalborg Music Therapy Training Program and the Head of the Music Therapy Research Clinic at Aalborg University Hospital, Psychiatry 1995-2021. Her research areas include psychodynamic music therapy and psychiatry, supervision, and experiential/resonant learning processes for music therapy students (438 publications). For publications see  https://vbn.aau.dk/da/publications/?search=Inge+Nygaard+Pedersen&amp;originalSearch=Inge+Nygaard+Pedersen&amp;pageSize=50&amp;ordering=rating&amp;descending=true&amp;showAdvanced=false&amp;allConcepts=true&amp;inferConcepts=true&amp;searchBy=PartOfNameOrTitle References Jacobsen, SL., Pedersen, IN &amp; Bonde, LO (2019) A Comprehensive Guide to Music Therapy. Second Edition. Jessica Kingsley Publishers. Pedersen, INP., Lindvang, C &amp; Beck, BD (2022) Resonant Learning in Music Therapy. A Training Model to Tune the Therapist. Jessica Kingsley Publishers. Pedersen, IN., Bonde, LO., Hannibal, N., Nielsen, J., Aagaard, J., Gold, C., Bertelsen, LR., Jensen, SB. &amp; Nielsen, RE. (2021) Music Therapy vs. Music Listening for Negative Symptoms in Schizophrenia: Randomized, Controlled, Assessor- and Patient-Blinded Trial. Frontiers in Psychiatry. Sec Psychiatry. 12, 738810 https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.738810

Episode 70 is the fourth and final dispatch from the EMTC conference at Queen Margaret University, Edinburgh, June 2022 (see also episodes 63, 65 and 68). Luke had the opportunity to speak to a genuine music therapy pioneer in the person of Inge Nygaard Pedersen.  Inge Nygaard Pedersen is an Associate Professor, Emerita, PhD, Aalborg University, Denmark. She is the founder of the Aalborg Music Therapy Training Program and the Head of the Music Therapy Research Clinic at Aalborg University Hospital, Psychiatry 1995-2021. Her research areas include psychodynamic music therapy and psychiatry, supervision, and experiential/resonant learning processes for music therapy students (438 publications). For publications see <a href="https://vbn.aau.dk/da/publications/?search=Inge+Nygaard+Pedersen&amp;originalSearch=Inge+Nygaard+Pedersen&amp;pageSize=50&amp;ordering=rating&amp;descending=true&amp;showAdvanced=false&amp;allConcepts=true&amp;inferConcepts=true&amp;searchBy=PartOfNameOrTitle" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> https://vbn.aau.dk/da/publications/?search=Inge+Nygaard+Pedersen&amp;originalSearch=Inge+Nygaard+Pedersen&amp;pageSize=50&amp;ordering=rating&amp;descending=true&amp;showAdvanced=false&amp;allConcepts=true&amp;inferConcepts=true&amp;searchBy=PartOfNameOrTitle</a> References Jacobsen, SL., Pedersen, IN &amp; Bonde, LO (2019) A Comprehensive Guide to Music Therapy. Second Edition. Jessica Kingsley Publishers. Pedersen, INP., Lindvang, C &amp; Beck, BD (2022) Resonant Learning in Music Therapy. A Training Model to Tune the Therapist. Jessica Kingsley Publishers. Pedersen, IN., Bonde, LO., Hannibal, N., Nielsen, J., Aagaard, J., Gold, C., Bertelsen, LR., Jensen, SB. &amp; Nielsen, RE. (2021) Music Therapy vs. Music Listening for Negative Symptoms in Schizophrenia: Randomized, Controlled, Assessor- and Patient-Blinded Trial. Frontiers in Psychiatry. Sec Psychiatry. 12, 738810 <a href="https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.738810" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.738810</a>

Ep 70 Inge Nygaard Pedersen

Davina Vencatasamy spoke to Revd Jide Macaulay about LGBTQ+, racial and intersectional issues in psychotherapy, music therapy, and society. Reverend Jide Macaulay (he/him/momma) is the Founder and CEO of House of Rainbow CIC. Openly gay British Nigerian born in London, he has been a Christian minister since 1998. He is an Anglican Priest and inspirational speaker, author, poet, pastor and preacher and an HIV Positive activist. Jide holds a degree in Law, master’s degree in Theology and Post-graduate certificate in Pastoral Theology. Revd Jide Macaulay focuses his ministry on inclusion and reconciliation of sexuality, spirituality, and human rights. He is also a former Board of Trustee at Kaleidoscope Trust UK. Currently Jide is a Chairperson at INERELA+ Europe, an international network of religious leaders, living with, or personally affected by HIV. Jide is a Patron at ReportOUT, Vice Chair One Voice Network, HIV mentor at Positive East, Nominee British LGBT Award 2021 - Top 10 Outstanding Contribution to LGBT+ Life,  nOSCARS Award winner 2014, 2017, 2018, Volunteer Chaplain at Mildmay HIV Hospital and Volunteer Champion at Africa Children's Charity.  "I will like see more unity and love within the LGBTIQ+ community, we must recognise that we are strengthened when we stand together against the sequence of hatred in this world, by doing so we make a difference across oceans and the sky is the limit for our desired change in this world." https://londonfriend.org.uk/50LGBTQLondoners/revd-jide-macaulay/ 

Davina Vencatasamy spoke to Revd Jide Macaulay about LGBTQ+, racial and intersectional issues in psychotherapy, music therapy, and society. Reverend Jide Macaulay (he/him/momma) is the Founder and CEO of <a href="https://www.houseofrainbow.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">House of Rainbow</a> CIC. Openly gay British Nigerian born in London, he has been a Christian minister since 1998. He is an Anglican Priest and inspirational speaker, author, poet, pastor and preacher and an HIV Positive activist. Jide holds a degree in Law, master’s degree in Theology and Post-graduate certificate in Pastoral Theology. Revd Jide Macaulay focuses his ministry on inclusion and reconciliation of sexuality, spirituality, and human rights. He is also a former Board of Trustee at Kaleidoscope Trust UK. Currently Jide is a Chairperson at INERELA+ Europe, an international network of religious leaders, living with, or personally affected by HIV. Jide is a Patron at <a href="https://www.reportout.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ReportOUT</a>, Vice Chair <a href="https://www.onevoicenet.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">One Voice Network</a>, HIV mentor at <a href="https://www.positiveeast.org.uk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Positive East</a>, Nominee British LGBT Award 2021 - Top 10 Outstanding Contribution to LGBT+ Life,  <a href="https://www.naz.org.uk/noscars" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">nOSCARS</a> Award winner 2014, 2017, 2018, Volunteer Chaplain at <a href="https://www.mildmay.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Mildmay HIV Hospital</a> and Volunteer Champion at Africa Children's Charity.  "I will like see more unity and love within the LGBTIQ+ community, we must recognise that we are strengthened when we stand together against the sequence of hatred in this world, by doing so we make a difference across oceans and the sky is the limit for our desired change in this world." <a href="https://londonfriend.org.uk/50LGBTQLondoners/revd-jide-macaulay/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://londonfriend.org.uk/50LGBTQLondoners/revd-jide-macaulay/</a>

Ep 69 Revd Jide Macaulay

Hakeem Leonard

“We’re doing music therapy because of people’s humanity, not because of what people lack” Luke spoke to Hakeem Leonard at the EMTC conference, Queen Margaret University, Edinburgh, in June 2022. Hakeem Leonard is an Associate Professor of Music Therapy and the Assistant Provost for Inclusion, Diversity, and Equity at Shenandoah University in Winchester, Virginia (United States). In his music therapy role, he has taught a range of courses, but most enjoys his social justice in music/arts and psychology of music courses, where the nexus of his current research focus lies in developing a desire-based, lifespan developmental framework to shape education, training, and personhood in and beyond music therapy. His published scholarship includes rehabilitation work as well as work rooted in anti-racist and culturally sustaining perspectives. Those include the article “The Problematic Conflation of Justice and Equality: The Case for Equity in Music Therapy” and his most recent co-authored chapter in the new Colonialism and Music Therapy text.  He has a passion for walking alongside students in their developmental growth process as culturally reflexive, confident, whole persons, with excellent music therapy knowledge and skills. He likes to stay grounded through various practices of listening and to experience joy through rest, creating things, and vibing with experiences and people. He is invested in conversations of anti-colonial and anti-oppressive practice from a place of intuition, desire, sustenance, love, wholeness, and relationship.  He is active on Instagram (@musicallman) where he shares about life, music therapy, and inclusion.  References Devlin, K. (2018). How do I see you, and what does that mean for us? An autoethnographic study. Music Therapy Perspectives, 36(2), 234-242. Dissanayake, E. (1993). Homo aestheticus: Where art comes from and why. University of Washington Press. Du Bois, W. E. B. (1903). The souls of black folk. Chicago: McClurg. Fisher, C. &amp; Leonard, H. (2022). Unsettling the classroom and the session: Anticolonial framing for Hip hop music therapy education and clinical work. In CAMTI Collective, Colonialism and music therapy (p. 305-334). Barcelona Publishers. Kenny, C. (2014, March). The field of play: An ecology of being in music therapy. In Voices: A World Forum for Music Therapy, 14(1). The Colonialism, &amp; Music Therapy Interlocutor’s (CAMTI) Collective. (2022). Colonialism and Music Therapy. Barcelona Publishers. Trondalen, G. (2016). Relational music therapy: An intersubjective perspective. Barcelona Publishers. Persons Referenced Clifford K. Madsen  http://www.cliffordmadsen.com  Jayne Standley  https://music.fsu.edu/person/jayne-standley/  Tom Sweitzer  http://www.aplacetobeva.org/a-place-to-be-staff 

“We’re doing music therapy because of people’s humanity, not because of what people lack” Luke spoke to Hakeem Leonard at the EMTC conference, Queen Margaret University, Edinburgh, in June 2022. Hakeem Leonard is an Associate Professor of Music Therapy and the Assistant Provost for Inclusion, Diversity, and Equity at Shenandoah University in Winchester, Virginia (United States). In his music therapy role, he has taught a range of courses, but most enjoys his social justice in music/arts and psychology of music courses, where the nexus of his current research focus lies in developing a desire-based, lifespan developmental framework to shape education, training, and personhood in and beyond music therapy. His published scholarship includes rehabilitation work as well as work rooted in anti-racist and culturally sustaining perspectives. Those include the article “The Problematic Conflation of Justice and Equality: The Case for Equity in Music Therapy” and his most recent co-authored chapter in the new Colonialism and Music Therapy text.  He has a passion for walking alongside students in their developmental growth process as culturally reflexive, confident, whole persons, with excellent music therapy knowledge and skills. He likes to stay grounded through various practices of listening and to experience joy through rest, creating things, and vibing with experiences and people. He is invested in conversations of anti-colonial and anti-oppressive practice from a place of intuition, desire, sustenance, love, wholeness, and relationship.  He is active on Instagram (@musicallman) where he shares about life, music therapy, and inclusion.  References Devlin, K. (2018). How do I see you, and what does that mean for us? An autoethnographic study. Music Therapy Perspectives, 36(2), 234-242. Dissanayake, E. (1993). Homo aestheticus: Where art comes from and why. University of Washington Press. Du Bois, W. E. B. (1903). The souls of black folk. Chicago: McClurg. Fisher, C. &amp; Leonard, H. (2022). Unsettling the classroom and the session: Anticolonial framing for Hip hop music therapy education and clinical work. In CAMTI Collective, Colonialism and music therapy (p. 305-334). Barcelona Publishers. Kenny, C. (2014, March). The field of play: An ecology of being in music therapy. In Voices: A World Forum for Music Therapy, 14(1). The Colonialism, &amp; Music Therapy Interlocutor’s (CAMTI) Collective. (2022). Colonialism and Music Therapy. Barcelona Publishers. Trondalen, G. (2016). Relational music therapy: An intersubjective perspective. Barcelona Publishers. Persons Referenced Clifford K. Madsen <ul> <li><a href="http://www.cliffordmadsen.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.cliffordmadsen.com</a></li> </ul> Jayne Standley <ul> <li><a href="https://music.fsu.edu/person/jayne-standley/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://music.fsu.edu/person/jayne-standley/</a></li> </ul> Tom Sweitzer <ul> <li><a href="http://www.aplacetobeva.org/a-place-to-be-staff" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.aplacetobeva.org/a-place-to-be-staff</a></li> </ul>

Ep 68 Hakeem Leonard

Penny Rogers

Davina Vencatasamy speaks to Penny Rogers, with a focus on safeguarding issues in music therapy. Penny Rogers studied cello with Bernard Gregor-Smith (Lindsay Strong Quartet) in Manchester before going on to complete a postgraduate diploma in Music Therapy at the Guildhall. As a therapist, she found the majority of individuals referred went on to disclose histories of child abuse and so her passion for safeguarding began. Since that time Penny has completed a variety of further trainings including Masters in Cognitive Neuropsychology, Child Protection &amp; Working with Families, and Systemic Psychotherapy.  She was research fellow in MT at City University exploring the impact of music therapy on children and young people with histories of sexual abuse - resulting in a number of articles and chapters in books and lecturing opportunities in places as diverse as UK, Estonia, Vittoria, Philadelphia. Penny also has a PGDip in Mental Health Law and today works as a Deputy Director for Devon Partnership Trust with a portfolio including all aspects of safeguarding, mental health law and legislation. She continues to play the cello almost every day, and is a member of a number of local orchestras in Devon and a dedicated quartet enthusiast. Penny believes that safeguarding training is essential for all those working with children &amp; adults. References Rogers, P. (1992). Issues in working with sexually abused clients in music therapy. Journal of British Music Therapy, 6(2), 5-15. Rogers, P. (2000). Truth or illusion: evidence-based practice in the real world. Music therapy research: Growing perspectives in theory and practice, 1. Rogers, P. (2003). Working with Jenny: Stories of gender, power and abuse. Psychodynamic music therapy: Case studies, 123-140.

Davina Vencatasamy speaks to Penny Rogers, with a focus on safeguarding issues in music therapy. Penny Rogers studied cello with Bernard Gregor-Smith (Lindsay Strong Quartet) in Manchester before going on to complete a postgraduate diploma in Music Therapy at the Guildhall. As a therapist, she found the majority of individuals referred went on to disclose histories of child abuse and so her passion for safeguarding began. Since that time Penny has completed a variety of further trainings including Masters in Cognitive Neuropsychology, Child Protection &amp; Working with Families, and Systemic Psychotherapy.  She was research fellow in MT at City University exploring the impact of music therapy on children and young people with histories of sexual abuse - resulting in a number of articles and chapters in books and lecturing opportunities in places as diverse as UK, Estonia, Vittoria, Philadelphia. Penny also has a PGDip in Mental Health Law and today works as a Deputy Director for Devon Partnership Trust with a portfolio including all aspects of safeguarding, mental health law and legislation. She continues to play the cello almost every day, and is a member of a number of local orchestras in Devon and a dedicated quartet enthusiast. Penny believes that safeguarding training is essential for all those working with children &amp; adults. References Rogers, P. (1992). Issues in working with sexually abused clients in music therapy. Journal of British Music Therapy, 6(2), 5-15. Rogers, P. (2000). Truth or illusion: evidence-based practice in the real world. Music therapy research: Growing perspectives in theory and practice, 1. Rogers, P. (2003). Working with Jenny: Stories of gender, power and abuse. Psychodynamic music therapy: Case studies, 123-140.

Ep 67 Penny Rogers

The podcast of the British Association for Music Therapy. Luke Annesley talks to music therapists and other people about music therapy and related topics.

In the world of music therapy podcasts there are often not very many choices. Some have been discontinued, some have been great in the past that have fallen off in recent years/months. Each month this podcast continues to deliver interesting and insightful interviews from some of the leaders and British music therapy. As an American it is extremely informative for me to hear how professionals from the other side of the pond View the profession and to learn about what they have done. Keep up the great work!

One of the best music therapy podcasts available

Music Therapy Conversations

Philippa Derrington leads the MSc Music Therapy course and is a Senior Lecturer within the Division of Occupational Therapy and Arts Therapies at Queen Margaret University in Edinburgh. She is one of the editors of the British Journal of Music Therapy, and passionate about promoting and developing the music therapy profession through research, practice and teaching. In this interview, Philippa talks about her music therapy work with adolescents at a social inclusion centre, attached to a mainstream secondary school. Although the work was primarily with young people in the centre, which became The Centre School in 2009 – a school for young people with social, emotional and mental health needs – she developed provision to a full time music therapy post and worked with students across both the mainstream and special schools. Press coverage of this work featured in The Times Educational Supplement and The Guardian. Philippa also talks about her PhD at Anglia Ruskin University, which set out to investigate the effectiveness of music therapy for young people at risk of underachievement or exclusion, and hereby acknowledges the support and enthusiasm of her supervisors, Amelia Oldfield, Tony Wigram and Helen Odell-Miller, as well as The Music Therapy Charity who funded the three-year study. Philippa continues to practise as a music therapist in a school for young people with complex social emotional and behavioural needs and since moving to Edinburgh in 2013, has led the MSc Music Therapy course through some major changes. Together with the Head of Division, Brendan McCormack, who is internationally recognised for his person-centred practice development and particular interest in the use of arts and creativity in healthcare research and development, Philippa is incredibly excited about the interdisciplinary potential within the School of Health Sciences and furthering new research opportunities for Music Therapy at QMU.   References McFerran, K. Derrington, P. and Saarikallio, S. eds. (2019). Handbook of Music, Adolescents, and Wellbeing. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Tomlinson, J. Derrington, P. and Oldfield, A. eds. (2012). Music Therapy in Schools: Working with children of all ages in mainstream and special education. London: Jessica Kingsley Publishers.

Philippa Derrington leads the MSc Music Therapy course and is a Senior Lecturer within the Division of Occupational Therapy and Arts Therapies at Queen Margaret University in Edinburgh. She is one of the editors of the British Journal of Music Therapy, and passionate about promoting and developing the music therapy profession through research, practice and teaching. In this interview, Philippa talks about her music therapy work with adolescents at a social inclusion centre, attached to a mainstream secondary school. Although the work was primarily with young people in the centre, which became The Centre School in 2009 – a school for young people with social, emotional and mental health needs – she developed provision to a full time music therapy post and worked with students across both the mainstream and special schools. Press coverage of this work featured in The Times Educational Supplement and The Guardian. Philippa also talks about her PhD at Anglia Ruskin University, which set out to investigate the effectiveness of music therapy for young people at risk of underachievement or exclusion, and hereby acknowledges the support and enthusiasm of her supervisors, Amelia Oldfield, Tony Wigram and Helen Odell-Miller, as well as The Music Therapy Charity who funded the three-year study. Philippa continues to practise as a music therapist in a school for young people with complex social emotional and behavioural needs and since moving to Edinburgh in 2013, has led the MSc Music Therapy course through some major changes. Together with the Head of Division, Brendan McCormack, who is internationally recognised for his person-centred practice development and particular interest in the use of arts and creativity in healthcare research and development, Philippa is incredibly excited about the interdisciplinary potential within the School of Health Sciences and furthering new research opportunities for Music Therapy at QMU. References McFerran, K. Derrington, P. and Saarikallio, S. eds. (2019). Handbook of Music, Adolescents, and Wellbeing. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Tomlinson, J. Derrington, P. and Oldfield, A. eds. (2012). Music Therapy in Schools: Working with children of all ages in mainstream and special education. London: Jessica Kingsley Publishers.

Ep 25 Philippa Derrington

Gary Ansdell

Professor Gary Ansdell has been a music therapist for thirty years, working mostly in the area of adult mental health in the last decade, and currently in late-life care settings. He has been involved in a wide range of areas of music therapy practice, and in developing the Community Music Therapy movement. Gary has also been active in training and research, developing new Masters and PhD programmes for Nordoff Robbins, where he was Director of Education (2008-15). He has published widely in the areas of music therapy and music and health and is author/co-author of seven books on music therapy, the latest of which include How Music Helps: In Music Therapy &amp; Everyday Life (2014) and with Tia DeNora Musical Pathways in Recovery: Community Music Therapy &amp; Mental Wellbeing (2016). His longterm collaboration with the music sociologist Tia DeNora has led to their joint editorship of the new book series Music and Change for Ashgate Publishers. Gary currently works as an independent music therapy practitioner, consultant and scholar, and is an Associate of Nordoff Robbins, UK, where he is Convenor of the MPhil/PhD programme. He is also an honorary Professor in the department of sociology, philosophy and anthropology at Exeter University and Adjunct Professor in Music Therapy at the University of Limerick. Gary talks about Mercédès Pavlicevic in this interview. He also talks about different approaches to music therapy, and we address some controversies, including Gary’s much discussed concept of the ‘consensus model’ in music therapy, and the perceived dichotomy between music-centred and psychodynamic music therapy. 

Professor Gary Ansdell has been a music therapist for thirty years, working mostly in the area of adult mental health in the last decade, and currently in late-life care settings. He has been involved in a wide range of areas of music therapy practice, and in developing the Community Music Therapy movement. Gary has also been active in training and research, developing new Masters and PhD programmes for Nordoff Robbins, where he was Director of Education (2008-15). He has published widely in the areas of music therapy and music and health and is author/co-author of seven books on music therapy, the latest of which include How Music Helps: In Music Therapy &amp; Everyday Life (2014) and with Tia DeNora Musical Pathways in Recovery: Community Music Therapy &amp; Mental Wellbeing (2016). His longterm collaboration with the music sociologist Tia DeNora has led to their joint editorship of the new book series Music and Change for Ashgate Publishers. Gary currently works as an independent music therapy practitioner, consultant and scholar, and is an Associate of Nordoff Robbins, UK, where he is Convenor of the MPhil/PhD programme. He is also an honorary Professor in the department of sociology, philosophy and anthropology at Exeter University and Adjunct Professor in Music Therapy at the University of Limerick. Gary talks about Mercédès Pavlicevic in this interview. He also talks about different approaches to music therapy, and we address some controversies, including Gary’s much discussed concept of the ‘consensus model’ in music therapy, and the perceived dichotomy between music-centred and psychodynamic music therapy.

Ep 18 Gary Ansdell

Martin Lawes

In Episode 29. Luke talks to music therapist and GIM practitioner/trainer Martin Lawes. Martin qualified as a music therapist in 1999. Since then his work has been in special needs education, in adult mental health (including eating disorders, acute and forensic psychiatry) and in palliative care. He is a BAMT registered supervisor and has been visiting lecturer on several of the music therapy MA trainings. Martin is additionally qualified in Guided Imagery and Music, GIM. He is a former chair of both the Education and Training Committee, and the board of the European Association of Music and Imagery, EAMI. Martin is also an approved GIM trainer and founder of the London based Integrative GIM Training Programme which is delivered by a team of experienced GIM trainers and researchers from the UK, Europe and the US. Martin’s aspiration is that GIM will gradually become as established in UK music therapy as it is in some other European countries, with therapists equipped to use a range of research-based GIM and simpler Music and Imagery, or MI methods, that complement their existing ways of working and extend what they have to offer clients. Martin has published a number of articles. One is about the evaluation of music therapy with children with autism. Others are about the application of contemporary psychoanalytic thinking to music therapy and about GIM. Martin currently has an article in press in the BJMT about the therapist’s use of reverie, or ‘dreaming in music’ as he calls it, in improvisation-based music therapy. Luke and Martin talk about the music experience which led Martin to train in music therapy, about GIM and MI, and about ‘dreaming in music’. Information about GIM Information about GIM and training in it can be found at: www.integrativegim.org Publications Lawes M (2001) Aesthetic Experience and the Healing Process: The story of a Therapist's Rediscovery of Music. British Journal of Music Therapy, 15(1). Lawes M (2002) Beauty, Emotion and Music: Aesthetic Encounter in the Therapeutic Process. In J. Fachner &amp; D. Aldridge (Eds.), Dialogue and Debate - Conference Proceedings of the 10th World Congress on Music Therapy, Oxford, England (pp. 1040-1068). Witten, Germany: MusicTherapyWorld.Net. Available at:  http://www.wfmt.info/WFMT/2011_World_Congress_files/Proceedings%20Oxford_2002.pdf Lawes M (2012) Reporting on outcomes: An adaptation of the ‘AQR-instrument’ used to evaluate music therapy in autism. Approaches: An Interdisciplinary Journal of Music Therapy, 4(2), 110-120. Available at:  http://approaches.gr/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Approaches_422012_Lawes_Article.pdf Lawes M (2013) Meaning, dreaming, relating and levels of consciousness in music psychotherapy: a psychoanalytic, developmental and transpersonal paradigm. Journal of Music and Meaning, 11:  85-132. Available at: http://www.musicandmeaning.net/articles/JMM11/LawesJMM11.pdf Lawes M (2016) Perspectives on the real, the imaginary and the music in GIM. Journal of the Association for Music and Imagery, 15, pp. 93-124. Lawes M (2017) Music as dynamic experience of unfolding wholeness in Guided Imagery and Music (GIM): A psychoanalytic, musical, transpersonal and trans-scientific paradigm. Approaches: An Interdisciplinary Journal of Music Therapy, Special Issue 9(2): 275-299. Available at:  http://approaches.gr/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/8-Approaches-9-2-2017-lawes-a20171222.pdf Lawes M (in press) On Improvisation as Dreaming and the Therapist’s Authentic use of Self in Music Therapy. British Journal of Music Therapy.

In Episode 29. Luke talks to music therapist and GIM practitioner/trainer Martin Lawes. Martin qualified as a music therapist in 1999. Since then his work has been in special needs education, in adult mental health (including eating disorders, acute and forensic psychiatry) and in palliative care. He is a BAMT registered supervisor and has been visiting lecturer on several of the music therapy MA trainings. Martin is additionally qualified in Guided Imagery and Music, GIM. He is a former chair of both the Education and Training Committee, and the board of the European Association of Music and Imagery, EAMI. Martin is also an approved GIM trainer and founder of the London based Integrative GIM Training Programme which is delivered by a team of experienced GIM trainers and researchers from the UK, Europe and the US. Martin’s aspiration is that GIM will gradually become as established in UK music therapy as it is in some other European countries, with therapists equipped to use a range of research-based GIM and simpler Music and Imagery, or MI methods, that complement their existing ways of working and extend what they have to offer clients. Martin has published a number of articles. One is about the evaluation of music therapy with children with autism. Others are about the application of contemporary psychoanalytic thinking to music therapy and about GIM. Martin currently has an article in press in the BJMT about the therapist’s use of reverie, or ‘dreaming in music’ as he calls it, in improvisation-based music therapy. Luke and Martin talk about the music experience which led Martin to train in music therapy, about GIM and MI, and about ‘dreaming in music’. Information about GIM Information about GIM and training in it can be found at: <a href="http://www.integrativegim.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.integrativegim.org</a> Publications Lawes M (2001) Aesthetic Experience and the Healing Process: The story of a Therapist's Rediscovery of Music. British Journal of Music Therapy, 15(1). Lawes M (2002) Beauty, Emotion and Music: Aesthetic Encounter in the Therapeutic Process. In J. Fachner &amp; D. Aldridge (Eds.), Dialogue and Debate - Conference Proceedings of the 10th World Congress on Music Therapy, Oxford, England (pp. 1040-1068). Witten, Germany: <a href="http://MusicTherapyWorld.Net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">MusicTherapyWorld.Net</a>. Available at: <a href="http://www.wfmt.info/WFMT/2011_World_Congress_files/Proceedings%20Oxford_2002.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> http://www.wfmt.info/WFMT/2011_World_Congress_files/Proceedings%20Oxford_2002.pdf</a> Lawes M (2012) Reporting on outcomes: An adaptation of the ‘AQR-instrument’ used to evaluate music therapy in autism. Approaches: An Interdisciplinary Journal of Music Therapy, 4(2), 110-120. Available at: <a href="http://approaches.gr/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Approaches_422012_Lawes_Article.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> http://approaches.gr/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Approaches_422012_Lawes_Article.pdf</a> Lawes M (2013) Meaning, dreaming, relating and levels of consciousness in music psychotherapy: a psychoanalytic, developmental and transpersonal paradigm. Journal of Music and Meaning, 11:  85-132. Available at: <a href="http://www.musicandmeaning.net/articles/JMM11/LawesJMM11.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.musicandmeaning.net/articles/JMM11/LawesJMM11.pdf</a> Lawes M (2016) Perspectives on the real, the imaginary and the music in GIM. Journal of the Association for Music and Imagery, 15, pp. 93-124. Lawes M (2017) Music as dynamic experience of unfolding wholeness in Guided Imagery and Music (GIM): A psychoanalytic, musical, transpersonal and trans-scientific paradigm. Approaches: An Interdisciplinary Journal of Music Therapy, Special Issue 9(2): 275-299. Available at: <a href="http://approaches.gr/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/8-Approaches-9-2-2017-lawes-a20171222.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> http://approaches.gr/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/8-Approaches-9-2-2017-lawes-a20171222.pdf</a> Lawes M (in press) On Improvisation as Dreaming and the Therapist’s Authentic use of Self in Music Therapy. British Journal of Music Therapy.

Ep 29 Martin Lawes

Simon Procter

In episode 28, Luke talks to Simon Procter. Simon works for Nordoff Robbins, based in London, as its Director of Music Services responsible for oversight of its education, research and public affairs activities.  Simon is a pianist, accompanist and improviser who trained as a music therapist with Nordoff Robbins in London from 1995 to 1997. He has since worked in a wide range of settings, most recently within adult mental health services, as well as in the training of music therapists. His commitment to the Nordoff Robbins approach stems from his own experience of music as fundamental to what it is to be fully human. As part of the sociology of the arts group led by Professor Tia DeNora at the University of Exeter, his PhD project was an ethnography of music therapy within a community mental health setting. As a practitioner, he views music as a potent force for social action as well as for the fulfilment of personal potential. As a researcher, he is an ethnographer committed to attention to the detail of the apparently mundane, in musical interaction as in life more generally: this means attending to the nitty-gritty detail of the work people do when they make music together in order to learn about the musical dimensions of health and wellbeing and in particular the craft skills required of music therapists so that their work can be as useful as possible. Similarly, as a trainer he emphasises the importance of developing acute musical-personal awareness coupled with practical musical means not just of responding to people but of actively and imaginatively helping them to flourish. Luke and Simon talk about the craft of music therapy, differing theoretical stances, how musical cultural background relates to the work, and whether Simon is, as Gary Ansdell claims, a 'contrarian'.

In episode 28, Luke talks to Simon Procter. Simon works for Nordoff Robbins, based in London, as its Director of Music Services responsible for oversight of its education, research and public affairs activities.  Simon is a pianist, accompanist and improviser who trained as a music therapist with Nordoff Robbins in London from 1995 to 1997. He has since worked in a wide range of settings, most recently within adult mental health services, as well as in the training of music therapists. His commitment to the Nordoff Robbins approach stems from his own experience of music as fundamental to what it is to be fully human. As part of the sociology of the arts group led by Professor Tia DeNora at the University of Exeter, his PhD project was an ethnography of music therapy within a community mental health setting. As a practitioner, he views music as a potent force for social action as well as for the fulfilment of personal potential. As a researcher, he is an ethnographer committed to attention to the detail of the apparently mundane, in musical interaction as in life more generally: this means attending to the nitty-gritty detail of the work people do when they make music together in order to learn about the musical dimensions of health and wellbeing and in particular the craft skills required of music therapists so that their work can be as useful as possible. Similarly, as a trainer he emphasises the importance of developing acute musical-personal awareness coupled with practical musical means not just of responding to people but of actively and imaginatively helping them to flourish. Luke and Simon talk about the craft of music therapy, differing theoretical stances, how musical cultural background relates to the work, and whether Simon is, as Gary Ansdell claims, a 'contrarian'.

Ep 28 Simon Procter

Episode 11 is the recording of the panel discussion from the BAMT AGM in October 2017. The panel members were Joy Gravestock, Anna Maratos, Simon Procter, Alexia Quin and Ben Saul, bringing experience from freelance work, the third sector, and the NHS. The discussion, chaired by Luke Annesley in front of an audience of BAMT members,  encompassed rates of pay, surviving in the 'age of austerity' and communicating constructively with commissioners and funders. The audience participated fully in the developing conversation.

Episode 11 is the recording of the panel discussion from the BAMT AGM in October 2017. The panel members were Joy Gravestock, Anna Maratos, Simon Procter, Alexia Quin and Ben Saul, bringing experience from freelance work, the third sector, and the NHS. The discussion, chaired by Luke Annesley in front of an audience of BAMT members,  encompassed rates of pay, surviving in the 'age of austerity' and communicating constructively with commissioners and funders. The audience participated fully in the developing conversation.

Ep 11 BAMT AGM Roundtable October 2017

Joy is a self-employed music therapist in private practice. Prior to her music therapy training, she was clinical lead for a Nottinghamshire NHS Trust, (in adoption services, CAMHS, Nottinghamshire), having worked previously within the field of adoption for many years. She was also a member of both Nottingham and Leicester County’s Adoption Panels, offering both her professional and personal experiences to panel. Now as a specialist music therapist in adoption practice, Joy is an identified lead therapist for Adoption Services in the East Midlands, as well as retaining links with “CORAM” Leicestershire, and working extensively with individually referred cases funded by the Adoption Support Fund (which came into being in 2015 to enable adoptive families to gain access to psychotherapies). Joy works with adoptive families where longer-term placements are deemed “at risk of breakdown”, when ostensibly difficulties result from the placement of older children who are described as having significant “attachment (and other) disorders”. She also works with families at the beginning of new placements when it is thought likely that traumatic material will impinge upon the adoption placement. She is currently working with adopted children with complex physical and learning disability, where often a disability discovered at birth led to the relinquishment of a baby. Joy developed her interest in how the impact of findings from neurobiology impacted on adult verbal psychotherapy, and what this might mean for music therapists trying to give meaning to what is emergent in the therapy room. Her PhD research explores how relational attachments may be enhanced by moments of attunement  (which might be explained partially in terms of their neurobiology) occurring within a music therapy relationship. She has written the BAMT literature on adoption which is available to anyone perusing the website with a request about music therapy in adoption. She has presented her work on music therapy, adoption, and the significance of attunement at numerous conferences over the past 5 years, and in 2017 presented at the World Congress Of Music Therapy in Japan and at “EcArte” (the Eurpoean Arts Therapies conference) in Poland. She also regularly presents work to adoption agencies, and consults to groups and service users within the adoption community. She is an author, supervisor, and lecturer at Derby and Nottingham Universities. Luke talks to Joy about her work with adoption and how this relates to her own life experiences, her development as a music therapist, and her current PhD research. References. Bettelheim. B. 1950. Love Is Not Enough. Collier Books Edition Eighth Printing 1969. Fonagy. P. 2001. Attachment Theory And Psychoanalysis. Karnac. Verrier.N 1993. The Primal Wound: Understanding The Adopted Child. Gateway Press. On Music And Psychoanalysis etc. Ammaniti. M. and Gallese. V. (eds) 2014. The Birth Of Intersubjectivity: Psychodynamics, Neurobiology and The Self. Norton. Rose. G. J. 2004. Between Couch And Piano: Psychoanalysis, Music, Art and Neuroscience. Routledge. Searle. Y. and Streng. I. 2001. Where Analysis Meets The Arts: The Intergration Of The Arts Therapies With Psychoanalytic Theory. Karnac. On Relationality. Jaenicke. C. 2008. The Risk Of Relatedness: Intersubjectivity Theory In Clinical Practice. Aronson. Trondalen. G. 2016. Relational Music Therapy: An Intersubjective Perspective. Barcelona Publishers. Mitchell. S. A. 2000. Relationality: From Attachment To Intersubjectivity. Psychology Press, Taylor and Francis. ..and research.. Finlay. L and Evans. K. (eds) 2009. Relational-centred Research For Psychotherapists: Exploring Meanings and Experience. Wiley-Blackwell. On Winnicottian Presence. Wilberg. P. 2013. Being and Listening: Counselling, Psychoanalysis and The Ontology Of Listening. New Yoga Publications. On Attachment. Gerhardt. S. 2004. Why Love Matters. Routledge. Music. G. 2019. Nurturing Children: From Trauma To Growth Using Attachment Theory, Psychoanalysis and Neurobiology. Routledge. On Wounded Healers. Kuchuck. S. 2014. Clinical Implications Of The Psychoanalysts Life Experience. Routledge.  This has the chapter referred to in the podcast about an adoptee who describes her lived experience as a therapist with lived experience of adoption.  Rippere. V. and Williams. R. 1985. Wounded Healers: Mental Health Workers Experiences Of Depression. Wiley. Sedgwick. D. 1994. The Wounded Healer: Countertransference From A Jungian Perspective. Routledge. …and research… Romanyshyn. R. 2013. The Wounded researcher: Research With Soul In Mind. Spring Journal On Micro Moments Of Attunement (or similar!). Webber. A. 2017. Breakthrough Moments In Arts-Based Psychotherapy. Karnac. On The Idea Of The Third. Ogden. T. 1989. The Primitive Edge Of Experience. Aronson. Benjamin. J. 2018. Beyond Doer and Done To: Recognition Theory, Intersubjectivity, and the Third. Routledge.

Joy is a self-employed music therapist in private practice. Prior to her music therapy training, she was clinical lead for a Nottinghamshire NHS Trust, (in adoption services, CAMHS, Nottinghamshire), having worked previously within the field of adoption for many years. She was also a member of both Nottingham and Leicester County’s Adoption Panels, offering both her professional and personal experiences to panel. Now as a specialist music therapist in adoption practice, Joy is an identified lead therapist for Adoption Services in the East Midlands, as well as retaining links with “CORAM” Leicestershire, and working extensively with individually referred cases funded by the Adoption Support Fund (which came into being in 2015 to enable adoptive families to gain access to psychotherapies). Joy works with adoptive families where longer-term placements are deemed “at risk of breakdown”, when ostensibly difficulties result from the placement of older children who are described as having significant “attachment (and other) disorders”. She also works with families at the beginning of new placements when it is thought likely that traumatic material will impinge upon the adoption placement. She is currently working with adopted children with complex physical and learning disability, where often a disability discovered at birth led to the relinquishment of a baby. Joy developed her interest in how the impact of findings from neurobiology impacted on adult verbal psychotherapy, and what this might mean for music therapists trying to give meaning to what is emergent in the therapy room. Her PhD research explores how relational attachments may be enhanced by moments of attunement  (which might be explained partially in terms of their neurobiology) occurring within a music therapy relationship. She has written the BAMT literature on adoption which is available to anyone perusing the website with a request about music therapy in adoption. She has presented her work on music therapy, adoption, and the significance of attunement at numerous conferences over the past 5 years, and in 2017 presented at the World Congress Of Music Therapy in Japan and at “EcArte” (the Eurpoean Arts Therapies conference) in Poland. She also regularly presents work to adoption agencies, and consults to groups and service users within the adoption community. She is an author, supervisor, and lecturer at Derby and Nottingham Universities. Luke talks to Joy about her work with adoption and how this relates to her own life experiences, her development as a music therapist, and her current PhD research. References. Bettelheim. B. 1950. Love Is Not Enough. Collier Books Edition Eighth Printing 1969. Fonagy. P. 2001. Attachment Theory And Psychoanalysis. Karnac. Verrier.N 1993. The Primal Wound: Understanding The Adopted Child. Gateway Press. On Music And Psychoanalysis etc. Ammaniti. M. and Gallese. V. (eds) 2014. The Birth Of Intersubjectivity: Psychodynamics, Neurobiology and The Self. Norton. Rose. G. J. 2004. Between Couch And Piano: Psychoanalysis, Music, Art and Neuroscience. Routledge. Searle. Y. and Streng. I. 2001. Where Analysis Meets The Arts: The Intergration Of The Arts Therapies With Psychoanalytic Theory. Karnac. On Relationality. Jaenicke. C. 2008. The Risk Of Relatedness: Intersubjectivity Theory In Clinical Practice. Aronson. Trondalen. G. 2016. Relational Music Therapy: An Intersubjective Perspective. Barcelona Publishers. Mitchell. S. A. 2000. Relationality: From Attachment To Intersubjectivity. Psychology Press, Taylor and Francis. ..and research.. Finlay. L and Evans. K. (eds) 2009. Relational-centred Research For Psychotherapists: Exploring Meanings and Experience. Wiley-Blackwell. On Winnicottian Presence. Wilberg. P. 2013. Being and Listening: Counselling, Psychoanalysis and The Ontology Of Listening. New Yoga Publications. On Attachment. Gerhardt. S. 2004. Why Love Matters. Routledge. Music. G. 2019. Nurturing Children: From Trauma To Growth Using Attachment Theory, Psychoanalysis and Neurobiology. Routledge. On Wounded Healers. Kuchuck. S. 2014. Clinical Implications Of The Psychoanalysts Life Experience. Routledge. <ul> <li>This has the chapter referred to in the podcast about an adoptee who describes her lived experience as a therapist with lived experience of adoption.</li> </ul> Rippere. V. and Williams. R. 1985. Wounded Healers: Mental Health Workers Experiences Of Depression. Wiley. Sedgwick. D. 1994. The Wounded Healer: Countertransference From A Jungian Perspective. Routledge. …and research… Romanyshyn. R. 2013. The Wounded researcher: Research With Soul In Mind. Spring Journal On Micro Moments Of Attunement (or similar!). Webber. A. 2017. Breakthrough Moments In Arts-Based Psychotherapy. Karnac. On The Idea Of The Third. Ogden. T. 1989. The Primitive Edge Of Experience. Aronson. Benjamin. J. 2018. Beyond Doer and Done To: Recognition Theory, Intersubjectivity, and the Third. Routledge.

Ep 24 Joy Gravestock

Bob Heath

Jane Lings

Episode 23 is all about therapeutic songwriting. Luke speaks to Jane Lings and Bob Heath. Jane Lings works freelance as a music therapist, supervisor, and educator. She has extensive clinical experience in palliative and bereavement care having worked for 15 years in an adult hospice. She has worked in many different clinical areas with children and adults, most recently a successful music therapy pilot project in a women’s prison. She was Senior Lecturer at UWE on the MA music therapy for 14 years and continues as associate lecturer. She is involved in lecturing and running workshops in many contexts including medical humanities. She runs a community choir and is involved in a regular music session for ex-offenders. Bob Heath has worked extensively in Palliative and Bereavement care both as a clinician and a lecturer/teacher and also has many years of experience working in Mental Health and Special Educational settings. He has published work in various books and journals and continues to work as a therapist and supervisor in End of Life Care, Community Mental Health and private practice. Bob has presented his work at a wide range of events including The Hay Literature Festival and Medicine Unboxed and continues to offer and facilitate training courses and workshops for therapists and health care practitioners. Over the last 15 years Bob and Jane have worked together to help promote the use of therapeutic songwriting in music therapy practice. They continue to develop and offer a range of workshops in the UK and Europe and have recently delivered the UK’s first academic therapeutic songwriting module at The University of The West of England. Luke speaks to Jane and Bob about their approach to therapeutic songwriting, including their own processes of incorporating these techniques into their music therapy practice. Why did this seem, initially, an unusual, even controversial, way of working, and why does songwriting continue to be somewhat neglected in music therapy practice?

Episode 23 is all about therapeutic songwriting. Luke speaks to Jane Lings and Bob Heath. Jane Lings works freelance as a music therapist, supervisor, and educator. She has extensive clinical experience in palliative and bereavement care having worked for 15 years in an adult hospice. She has worked in many different clinical areas with children and adults, most recently a successful music therapy pilot project in a women’s prison. She was Senior Lecturer at UWE on the MA music therapy for 14 years and continues as associate lecturer. She is involved in lecturing and running workshops in many contexts including medical humanities. She runs a community choir and is involved in a regular music session for ex-offenders. Bob Heath has worked extensively in Palliative and Bereavement care both as a clinician and a lecturer/teacher and also has many years of experience working in Mental Health and Special Educational settings. He has published work in various books and journals and continues to work as a therapist and supervisor in End of Life Care, Community Mental Health and private practice. Bob has presented his work at a wide range of events including The Hay Literature Festival and Medicine Unboxed and continues to offer and facilitate training courses and workshops for therapists and health care practitioners. Over the last 15 years Bob and Jane have worked together to help promote the use of therapeutic songwriting in music therapy practice. They continue to develop and offer a range of workshops in the UK and Europe and have recently delivered the UK’s first academic therapeutic songwriting module at The University of The West of England. Luke speaks to Jane and Bob about their approach to therapeutic songwriting, including their own processes of incorporating these techniques into their music therapy practice. Why did this seem, initially, an unusual, even controversial, way of working, and why does songwriting continue to be somewhat neglected in music therapy practice?

Ep 23 Bob Heath and Jane Lings

After completing a degree in music, specialising in composition, electronic music and piano performance, David trained firstly as a Music Therapist and subsequently as a Psychotherapist. He worked in Mental Health Services in Cambridge as a Music Therapist and as a Clinical Team Lead for an Arts Therapies Service from 1985 to 2016.  During the 90s David trained at the British Association of Psychotherapists and gained membership of the British Psychoanalytic Council in 2000. He joined The British Psychoanalytic Association in 2011 and subsequently became a member of the International Psychoanalytic Association and The European Psychoanalytic Federation.  In his clinical work he tended to specialise in treating people with significant and chronic conditions that had not responded to previous treatments. His long experience in mainstream mental health contributed importantly to his work in private Psychoanalysis.  He also works as a Community Musician running a community project, running a Community Music Project - The Recovered Mkii. He also works as a church organist and jobbing musician with various Jazz and covers bands. This conversation had its genesis in a recent Facebook discussion on the role of psychoanalytic theory in music therapy. We discuss theories of Freud, Winnicott and Bion. Along the way, an important distinction is drawn between Winnicott’s theory of holding and Bion’s container contained, and David makes an interesting link between Bion’s beta and alpha elements and musical expression. John, D. (1992). Towards music psychotherapy. Journal of British Music Therapy, 6(1), 10-12. John, D. (2014). Getting better: Some thoughts on the growth of the therapist. In Supervision of Music Therapy (pp. 95-112). Routledge.   The link to the 'Music As Therapy' donations page is  here.

After completing a degree in music, specialising in composition, electronic music and piano performance, David trained firstly as a Music Therapist and subsequently as a Psychotherapist. He worked in Mental Health Services in Cambridge as a Music Therapist and as a Clinical Team Lead for an Arts Therapies Service from 1985 to 2016. During the 90s David trained at the British Association of Psychotherapists and gained membership of the British Psychoanalytic Council in 2000. He joined The British Psychoanalytic Association in 2011 and subsequently became a member of the International Psychoanalytic Association and The European Psychoanalytic Federation. In his clinical work he tended to specialise in treating people with significant and chronic conditions that had not responded to previous treatments. His long experience in mainstream mental health contributed importantly to his work in private Psychoanalysis. He also works as a Community Musician running a community project, running a Community Music Project - The Recovered Mkii. He also works as a church organist and jobbing musician with various Jazz and covers bands. This conversation had its genesis in a recent Facebook discussion on the role of psychoanalytic theory in music therapy. We discuss theories of Freud, Winnicott and Bion. Along the way, an important distinction is drawn between Winnicott’s theory of holding and Bion’s container contained, and David makes an interesting link between Bion’s beta and alpha elements and musical expression. John, D. (1992). Towards music psychotherapy. Journal of British Music Therapy, 6(1), 10-12. John, D. (2014). Getting better: Some thoughts on the growth of the therapist. In Supervision of Music Therapy (pp. 95-112). Routledge. The link to the 'Music As Therapy' donations page is <a href="http://www.musicastherapy.org/get-involved/bbc-radio-4-appeal-2019" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> here</a>.

Ep 32 David John

Sarah Metcalfe

Sarah Metcalfe is CEO of Playlist for Life, the music and dementia charity founded by writer and broadcaster Sally Magnusson. Under her leadership Playlist for Life has established a growing UK network of community Help Points and was recently awarded £1.6million by the National Lottery to scale up playlist-use across the UK. Sarah was a Commissioner on the ILC Commission on Dementia and Music and is one of the steering group advising on BBC Music Day. She has been a speaker and advocate for the power of playlists at events including the NHS Innovation Expo, the International Palliative Care and Dementia Conference and on radio and TV. Prior to Playlist for Life she worked in policy, campaigns and community organising. She lives in Glasgow with her husband Jim and children, Rosa and Ally. Her playlist includes Baby Beluga and the Brandenburg Concertos. Luke and Sarah consider the overlaps between Playlist for Life and the work of music therapists, including exploring concepts such as 'musical relationship' and 'musical identity' as they relate to the processes of working with a person on their playlist. They also discuss whether playlists are dependent on technology such as iPods and music streaming, and whether they are necessarily an interactive or receptive intervention. For more information on Playlist for Life, training for health and care professionals or how to make and use a playlist, please visit www.playlistforlife.org.uk 

Sarah Metcalfe is CEO of Playlist for Life, the music and dementia charity founded by writer and broadcaster Sally Magnusson. Under her leadership Playlist for Life has established a growing UK network of community Help Points and was recently awarded £1.6million by the National Lottery to scale up playlist-use across the UK. Sarah was a Commissioner on the ILC Commission on Dementia and Music and is one of the steering group advising on BBC Music Day. She has been a speaker and advocate for the power of playlists at events including the NHS Innovation Expo, the International Palliative Care and Dementia Conference and on radio and TV. Prior to Playlist for Life she worked in policy, campaigns and community organising. She lives in Glasgow with her husband Jim and children, Rosa and Ally. Her playlist includes Baby Beluga and the Brandenburg Concertos. Luke and Sarah consider the overlaps between Playlist for Life and the work of music therapists, including exploring concepts such as 'musical relationship' and 'musical identity' as they relate to the processes of working with a person on their playlist. They also discuss whether playlists are dependent on technology such as iPods and music streaming, and whether they are necessarily an interactive or receptive intervention. For more information on Playlist for Life, training for health and care professionals or how to make and use a playlist, please visit <a href="http://www.playlistforlife.org.uk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.playlistforlife.org.uk</a>

Ep 31 Sarah Metcalfe (Playlist for Life)

Liz Coombes is the course leader of the MA Music Therapy course at the University of South Wales, Newport. Since qualifying as a Music Therapist in 2000 following a BMus degree at Royal Holloway College, University of London, she has specialised in working with children and young people with emotional and behavioural difficulties as well as asylum seekers and refugees. She uses psychodynamic thinking to underpin her work and utilises her considerable experience in community music-making. She has worked on skill-sharing therapeutic music projects since 2009 in Palestine, and in the UK. She has a particular interest in how sharing these skills with non-musicians such as teachers, social workers and carers can enrich their professional practice. She has recently completed her training in Guided Imagery in Music. We talked about Liz’s experience as a community musician, how this links to her music therapy work, what skills music therapists need to develop in training, and working cross-culturally.  Coombes, E. (2011, February). Project Bethlehem-Training educators and health workers in the therapeutic use of music in the West Bank. In Voices: A World Forum for Music Therapy (Vol. 11, No. 1). Coombes, E., &amp; Tombs-Katz, M. (2015). Interactive therapeutic music skill-sharing in the West Bank: An evaluation report of project Beit Sahour. Approaches: An Interdisciplinary Journal of Music Therapy, 9, 67-79.

Liz Coombes is the course leader of the MA Music Therapy course at the University of South Wales, Newport. Since qualifying as a Music Therapist in 2000 following a BMus degree at Royal Holloway College, University of London, she has specialised in working with children and young people with emotional and behavioural difficulties as well as asylum seekers and refugees. She uses psychodynamic thinking to underpin her work and utilises her considerable experience in community music-making. She has worked on skill-sharing therapeutic music projects since 2009 in Palestine, and in the UK. She has a particular interest in how sharing these skills with non-musicians such as teachers, social workers and carers can enrich their professional practice. She has recently completed her training in Guided Imagery in Music. We talked about Liz’s experience as a community musician, how this links to her music therapy work, what skills music therapists need to develop in training, and working cross-culturally.  Coombes, E. (2011, February). Project Bethlehem-Training educators and health workers in the therapeutic use of music in the West Bank. In Voices: A World Forum for Music Therapy (Vol. 11, No. 1). Coombes, E., &amp; Tombs-Katz, M. (2015). Interactive therapeutic music skill-sharing in the West Bank: An evaluation report of project Beit Sahour. Approaches: An Interdisciplinary Journal of Music Therapy, 9, 67-79.

Ep 19 Liz Coombes

Stella Compton Dickinson

In episode 10 Luke talks to Dr Stella Compton Dickinson about working in forensic settings. Stella is a London-based music therapist, professional oboist, lecturer, UK Council for Psychotherapy registered Cognitive Analytic Therapist and accredited supervisor. She is author of The Clinician’s Guide to Forensic Music Therapy (Jessica Kingsley Publishers) and she has her own private practice and twenty years' experience in the National Health Service as a clinician, Head of Arts Therapies and Clinical Research Lead. Her research was awarded the 2016 Ruskin Medal for the most impactful doctoral research.  Stella’s PhD thesis can be found here, and her website is here.

In episode 10 Luke talks to Dr Stella Compton Dickinson about working in forensic settings. Stella is a London-based music therapist, professional oboist, lecturer, UK Council for Psychotherapy registered Cognitive Analytic Therapist and accredited supervisor. She is author of The Clinician’s Guide to Forensic Music Therapy (Jessica Kingsley Publishers) and she has her own private practice and twenty years' experience in the National Health Service as a clinician, Head of Arts Therapies and Clinical Research Lead. Her research was awarded the 2016 Ruskin Medal for the most impactful doctoral research.  Stella’s PhD thesis can be found <a href="http://arro.anglia.ac.uk/581523/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here</a>, and her website is <a href="http://www.stellacompton.co.uk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here</a>.

Ep 10 Stella Compton Dickinson

Pauline Etkin

Pauline Etkin trained as a teacher at the Witwatersrand Teachers Training College in Johannesburg, Rep of South Africa. She became head of Music and early childhood didactics and was always interested in how music could help the many children that she came across who were struggling to fit in socially or educationally. Pauline has been a major influence in the development of music therapy both in the UK and internationally. She trained as a music therapist in 1982 and her first passion will always be as a music therapist having worked in this role for 25 years working for a year in South Africa with children with life-threatening illnesses and in Soweto with children and teachers there. In 1986 she returned to London and worked as a music therapist and tutor becoming Sybil’s Deputy Director in 1988.  Pauline took over from Sybil Beresford-Peirse as Director of the new Nordoff-Robbins Music Therapy Centre in North London in 1991, and then as Chief Executive Officer of Nordoff-Robbins from 2002 to 2013. When Robin Howat, Head of the Post-Graduate Training course moved to Australia, Pauline undertook the additional role of Head of Training from 1993 until 2003, developing it together with her team into a two-year Master of Music Therapy Degree course in 1996 validated by City University. Pauline became aware of the huge resources of the centre, including its library and conference facilities and made sure that the developing profession in the UK, in addition to therapists working within the Nordoff-Robbins approach, could benefit from such facilities. Conferences and meetings were held regularly at the centre. Pauline was also instrumental in linking with governmental departments in helping to set-up the formal registration of music therapists in the UK. She served on many national groups, for many years chairing committees on supervision and training and education. The BAMT awarded Pauline a ‘Lifetime Achievement Award’ in 2013 and she was awarded an OBE ‘for services to music therapy’ in the 2013 Queen’s New Year Honours. For more information about Pauline’s extensive career in music therapy see her autobiography in Volume 2 of John Mahoney’s compilation (2017) and the two histories of the evolution of Nordoff-Robbins by Fraser Simspon (2007, 2009). In this interview Pauline talks about her own experiences of training, with particular reference to Sybil Beresford-Peirse and Clive Robbins. There’s also some discussion on what it might mean, from her perspective, to be a music-centred music therapist, and on the evolution of music therapy in the UK, with tributes paid to the various pioneers identified by Pauline, who have contributed so much to the profession. 

Pauline Etkin trained as a teacher at the Witwatersrand Teachers Training College in Johannesburg, Rep of South Africa. She became head of Music and early childhood didactics and was always interested in how music could help the many children that she came across who were struggling to fit in socially or educationally. Pauline has been a major influence in the development of music therapy both in the UK and internationally. She trained as a music therapist in 1982 and her first passion will always be as a music therapist having worked in this role for 25 years working for a year in South Africa with children with life-threatening illnesses and in Soweto with children and teachers there. In 1986 she returned to London and worked as a music therapist and tutor becoming Sybil’s Deputy Director in 1988.  Pauline took over from Sybil Beresford-Peirse as Director of the new Nordoff-Robbins Music Therapy Centre in North London in 1991, and then as Chief Executive Officer of Nordoff-Robbins from 2002 to 2013. When Robin Howat, Head of the Post-Graduate Training course moved to Australia, Pauline undertook the additional role of Head of Training from 1993 until 2003, developing it together with her team into a two-year Master of Music Therapy Degree course in 1996 validated by City University. Pauline became aware of the huge resources of the centre, including its library and conference facilities and made sure that the developing profession in the UK, in addition to therapists working within the Nordoff-Robbins approach, could benefit from such facilities. Conferences and meetings were held regularly at the centre. Pauline was also instrumental in linking with governmental departments in helping to set-up the formal registration of music therapists in the UK. She served on many national groups, for many years chairing committees on supervision and training and education. The BAMT awarded Pauline a ‘Lifetime Achievement Award’ in 2013 and she was awarded an OBE ‘for services to music therapy’ in the 2013 Queen’s New Year Honours. For more information about Pauline’s extensive career in music therapy see her autobiography in Volume 2 of John Mahoney’s compilation (2017) and the two histories of the evolution of Nordoff-Robbins by Fraser Simspon (2007, 2009). In this interview Pauline talks about her own experiences of training, with particular reference to Sybil Beresford-Peirse and Clive Robbins. There’s also some discussion on what it might mean, from her perspective, to be a music-centred music therapist, and on the evolution of music therapy in the UK, with tributes paid to the various pioneers identified by Pauline, who have contributed so much to the profession.

Ep 26 Pauline Etkin

Andy Lale

In episode 21 of Music Therapy Conversations Luke Annesley talks to Andy Lale. Andy has worked as a music therapist for twenty years. He has been employed by CNWL NHS Trust, in this capacity, since 1999. He manages a team of arts psychotherapists for South Westminster and specialises in music psychotherapy with psychotic states. His clinical work, with this client group, focuses on transference and insight. His MA dissertation on Countertransference Enactment is available in the Tavistock Library. He has taught on the MA in Music Therapy at Roehampton University and now supervises other clinicians in this compound intervention. He also contributes to the ICAPT evening lecture series. Andy has created a series of online videos explaining the key ideas of this way of working. This study is an attempt to encourage interest more widely, in psychoanalytically informed music psychotherapy, for psychosis. Andy presented this study at the BAMT conference, 2018.​ In this interview, Andy talks about the origin of the term 'psychodynamics', and in some detail about how he applies psychodynamic theory to his work as a music psychotherapist with psychotic patients. What is the relationship between music and psychodynamic theory? We also discuss the anti-psychiatry movement, and the difficulties of research and evaluation of music psychotherapy with this client group. And what about 'music psychotherapy' itself? Why is there not yet a well-established post-qualification training in music psychotherapy in the UK?

In episode 21 of Music Therapy Conversations Luke Annesley talks to Andy Lale. Andy has worked as a music therapist for twenty years. He has been employed by CNWL NHS Trust, in this capacity, since 1999. He manages a team of arts psychotherapists for South Westminster and specialises in music psychotherapy with psychotic states. His clinical work, with this client group, focuses on transference and insight. His MA dissertation on Countertransference Enactment is available in the Tavistock Library. He has taught on the MA in Music Therapy at Roehampton University and now supervises other clinicians in this compound intervention. He also contributes to the ICAPT evening lecture series. Andy has created a series of <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vaj_I4x-6Co&amp;list=PLrrlfIRaeWk2OtnCM-7OSaBxl9kn2fEN5" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">online videos</a> explaining the key ideas of this way of working. This study is an attempt to encourage interest more widely, in psychoanalytically informed music psychotherapy, for psychosis. Andy presented this study at the BAMT conference, 2018.​ In this interview, Andy talks about the origin of the term 'psychodynamics', and in some detail about how he applies psychodynamic theory to his work as a music psychotherapist with psychotic patients. What is the relationship between music and psychodynamic theory? We also discuss the anti-psychiatry movement, and the difficulties of research and evaluation of music psychotherapy with this client group. And what about 'music psychotherapy' itself? Why is there not yet a well-established post-qualification training in music psychotherapy in the UK?

Ep 21 Andy Lale

Cathy Warner

In podcast 30, Cathy Warner has a conversation with Luke about music therapy clinical supervision. Cathy is a music therapy trainer and practitioner. As both an improvising and classical musician she’s a cellist and pianist and has orchestral and choral conducting experience mainly of classical repertoire. She has been the Course Leader for MA Music Therapy at the University of the West of England in Bristol for 5 years, developing the part time training Leslie Bunt established in the early 90s. As a music therapist she’s particularly interested in group work and has facilitated music therapy community groups for people with severe mental health needs for a number of years. This follows an earlier career in music therapy neurorehabilitation and NHS work with adults with learning disabilities. Cathy has a long standing interest in participatory research methods, and used action research to involve people with learning disabilities and no spoken language as active researchers in her PhD project.  More recently she has been involved in two European funded ERASMUS+ projects, the LINK and STALWARTS projects, which together with other partner countries have developed ways that teachers and social educators can use ethical and practical frameworks to incorporate music into teaching to support emotional and relational health, particularly for marginalised young people affected by early trauma. From this she has helped develop two CPD distance learning modules that will train teachers and health professionals to establish the ethical and practical frameworks to incorporate musical into a more relational style of teaching any subject. Continuing professional development is an area of great interest to Cathy, and six years ago she established a bespoke supervision training for music therapists which runs yearly, and is designed for working music therapists, requiring attendance just one day per month over 8 months. The focus is on the use of music within the supervision process itself. Cathy has concerns about the lack of supervision infrastructure within the profession. She is particularly keen on the under-used benefits of peer supervision. Cathy leads quite a busy life with two teenage sons, and finding the reflective space to deeply reflect on therapeutic processes is of central importance to her. Link to CPD course:  https://courses.uwe.ac.uk/USPKJD30M/supervision-training-for-music-therapists

In podcast 30, Cathy Warner has a conversation with Luke about music therapy clinical supervision. Cathy is a music therapy trainer and practitioner. As both an improvising and classical musician she’s a cellist and pianist and has orchestral and choral conducting experience mainly of classical repertoire. She has been the Course Leader for MA Music Therapy at the University of the West of England in Bristol for 5 years, developing the part time training Leslie Bunt established in the early 90s. As a music therapist she’s particularly interested in group work and has facilitated music therapy community groups for people with severe mental health needs for a number of years. This follows an earlier career in music therapy neurorehabilitation and NHS work with adults with learning disabilities. Cathy has a long standing interest in participatory research methods, and used action research to involve people with learning disabilities and no spoken language as active researchers in her PhD project.  More recently she has been involved in two European funded ERASMUS+ projects, the LINK and STALWARTS projects, which together with other partner countries have developed ways that teachers and social educators can use ethical and practical frameworks to incorporate music into teaching to support emotional and relational health, particularly for marginalised young people affected by early trauma. From this she has helped develop two CPD distance learning modules that will train teachers and health professionals to establish the ethical and practical frameworks to incorporate musical into a more relational style of teaching any subject. Continuing professional development is an area of great interest to Cathy, and six years ago she established a bespoke supervision training for music therapists which runs yearly, and is designed for working music therapists, requiring attendance just one day per month over 8 months. The focus is on the use of music within the supervision process itself. Cathy has concerns about the lack of supervision infrastructure within the profession. She is particularly keen on the under-used benefits of peer supervision. Cathy leads quite a busy life with two teenage sons, and finding the reflective space to deeply reflect on therapeutic processes is of central importance to her. Link to CPD course: <a href="https://courses.uwe.ac.uk/USPKJD30M/supervision-training-for-music-therapists" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> https://courses.uwe.ac.uk/USPKJD30M/supervision-training-for-music-therapists</a>

Ep 30 Cathy Warner

Ann Sloboda

Ann Sloboda is Head of Music Therapy at the Guildhall School of Music &amp; Drama. She is a registered psychoanalyst (British Psychoanalytic Council) and music therapist (HCPC). She studied music at Oxford University, and qualified as a music therapist from GSMD in 1985. Between 1985 and 2005 she worked as a music therapist in the NHS, in adult learning disability, eating disorders, general and forensic psychiatry. She has undertaken research in music therapy with PTSD. A past chair of the Association of Professional Music Therapists, she was Head of Arts Therapies at West London Mental Health Trust for 10 years. In this interview Luke talked to Ann about her personal development as a music therapist and, later, psychoanalyst, as well as about the development of the training course at the Guildhall School. Ann also encouraged Luke to reflect on some of his own experiences as a trainee, which led to some interesting shared reflections on the nature of training, including personal motivations for embarking on a therapeutic career. Ann discussed her own very particular experience of music therapy as a client, with the pioneering analytic music therapist Mary Priestley.

Ann Sloboda is Head of Music Therapy at the Guildhall School of Music &amp; Drama. She is a registered psychoanalyst (British Psychoanalytic Council) and music therapist (HCPC). She studied music at Oxford University, and qualified as a music therapist from GSMD in 1985. Between 1985 and 2005 she worked as a music therapist in the NHS, in adult learning disability, eating disorders, general and forensic psychiatry. She has undertaken research in music therapy with PTSD. A past chair of the Association of Professional Music Therapists, she was Head of Arts Therapies at West London Mental Health Trust for 10 years. In this interview Luke talked to Ann about her personal development as a music therapist and, later, psychoanalyst, as well as about the development of the training course at the Guildhall School. Ann also encouraged Luke to reflect on some of his own experiences as a trainee, which led to some interesting shared reflections on the nature of training, including personal motivations for embarking on a therapeutic career. Ann discussed her own very particular experience of music therapy as a client, with the pioneering analytic music therapist Mary Priestley.

Ep 22 Ann Sloboda

Luke talks to Helen Odell-Miller about music therapy and psychoanalysis, group work in adult mental health settings, research into music therapy and dementia, and many other things.  Dr Helen Odell-Miller OBE is a Professor of Music Therapy, and Director of the Cambridge Institute for Music Therapy Research at Anglia Ruskin University, Cambridge. Helen has lectured widely, and has been a keynote speaker at many national and international conferences in Europe, Australia, Asia and the USA. She has worked with parliament and the government advising on music therapy.  Most recently she was one of the Commissioners for the Music and Dementia Strategy in the UK, produced by the International Longevity Centre, and launched at the House of Lords in January 2018: What would life be? Without a Song or Dance, What are We?  Helen is co-editor and an author for the books Supervision of Music Therapy (Jessica Kingsley 2009), Forensic Music Therapy (Routledge 2013) and Collaboration and Assistance in Music Therapy Practice (2017). She has published widely in national and international peer reviewed journals and authored many book chapters. She is a pianist, violinist, and a singer in Cambridge Voices chamber choir.  References: Odell-Miller, H., 2001. Music therapy and its relationship to psychoanalysis. Where analysis meets the arts, pp.127-152. Wilson, S. ed., 2017. Music—Psychoanalysis—Musicology. Routledge.

Luke talks to Helen Odell-Miller about music therapy and psychoanalysis, group work in adult mental health settings, research into music therapy and dementia, and many other things.  Dr Helen Odell-Miller OBE is a Professor of Music Therapy, and Director of the Cambridge Institute for Music Therapy Research at Anglia Ruskin University, Cambridge. Helen has lectured widely, and has been a keynote speaker at many national and international conferences in Europe, Australia, Asia and the USA. She has worked with parliament and the government advising on music therapy.  Most recently she was one of the Commissioners for the Music and Dementia Strategy in the UK, produced by the International Longevity Centre, and launched at the House of Lords in January 2018: What would life be? Without a Song or Dance, What are We? Helen is co-editor and an author for the books Supervision of Music Therapy (Jessica Kingsley 2009), Forensic Music Therapy (Routledge 2013) and Collaboration and Assistance in Music Therapy Practice (2017). She has published widely in national and international peer reviewed journals and authored many book chapters. She is a pianist, violinist, and a singer in Cambridge Voices chamber choir.  References: Odell-Miller, H., 2001. Music therapy and its relationship to psychoanalysis. Where analysis meets the arts, pp.127-152. Wilson, S. ed., 2017. Music—Psychoanalysis—Musicology. Routledge.

Ep 14 Dr Helen Odell-Miller OBE

Episode 13 is Luke's interview with Claire Flower. Claire trained as a music therapist at the Guildhall School of Music and Drama.  Over the years she has worked in a wide range of settings, as well as running a supervision practice, teaching and examining.  She currently works within the Music Therapy team in the Child Development Service at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital, London, where she is joint team lead with Juliet Wood. At present, she is completing her doctoral studies at Nordoff-Robbins.  Her practice-led study is an investigation of ways of working with children and parents in a healthcare context.   References: Bortoft, H. (2012) Taking Appearances Seriously: The Dynamic Way of Seeing in Goethe and European Thought.  Edinburgh, Floris Books.  Flower, C., 2014. Music therapy trios with child, parent and therapist: A preliminary qualitative single case study. Psychology of Music, 42(6), pp.839-845. Blogs: http://musictherapyblog.co.uk/ https://www.musiconmymind.co.uk/ http://dariuszgalasinski.com/blog/ http://jazztoad.blogspot.co.uk/ 

Episode 13 is Luke's interview with Claire Flower. Claire trained as a music therapist at the Guildhall School of Music and Drama.  Over the years she has worked in a wide range of settings, as well as running a supervision practice, teaching and examining.  She currently works within the Music Therapy team in the Child Development Service at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital, London, where she is joint team lead with Juliet Wood. At present, she is completing her doctoral studies at Nordoff-Robbins.  Her practice-led study is an investigation of ways of working with children and parents in a healthcare context.   References: Bortoft, H. (2012) Taking Appearances Seriously: The Dynamic Way of Seeing in Goethe and European Thought.  Edinburgh, Floris Books.  Flower, C., 2014. Music therapy trios with child, parent and therapist: A preliminary qualitative single case study. Psychology of Music, 42(6), pp.839-845. Blogs: <a href="http://musictherapyblog.co.uk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://musictherapyblog.co.uk/</a> <a href="https://www.musiconmymind.co.uk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.musiconmymind.co.uk/</a> <a href="http://dariuszgalasinski.com/blog/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://dariuszgalasinski.com/blog/</a> <a href="http://jazztoad.blogspot.co.uk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://jazztoad.blogspot.co.uk/</a>

Ep 13 Claire Flower

Becky White

In episode 12, which coincides with  World Music Therapy Day, Luke Annesley talks to Becky White. Becky teaches clinical improvisation at the University of South Wales and works as an associate lecturer in music therapy at the University of the West of England. She is undertaking PhD research into learning experiences through improvisation of music and music therapy students. The study is arts based, employing qualitative phenomenological interviews combined with improvisations and transcribed with hand-drawn graphic scores. She is a member of the inter-model and inter-disciplinary improvisation research network Concurrent, based at the University of Edinburgh. During this interview Becky refers to a number of papers, including her recent Concurrent study on Voices, which is here. She also references the following: Ferrara, L. (1984) Phenomenology as a Tool for Musical Analysis. The Musical Quarterly, 70(3), pp. 355-373.  Wilson, G.B., and MacDonald, R.A. (2016) Musical choices during group free improvisation: A qualitative psychological investigation. Psychology of Music, 44(5), pp. 1029 - 1043. 

In episode 12, which coincides with <a href="http://www.wfmt.info/2018/01/27/world-music-therapy-day-is-coming-up-on-march-1-2018/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> World Music Therapy Day</a>, Luke Annesley talks to Becky White. Becky teaches clinical improvisation at the University of South Wales and works as an associate lecturer in music therapy at the University of the West of England. She is undertaking PhD research into learning experiences through improvisation of music and music therapy students. The study is arts based, employing qualitative phenomenological interviews combined with improvisations and transcribed with hand-drawn graphic scores. She is a member of the inter-model and inter-disciplinary improvisation research network Concurrent, based at the University of Edinburgh. During this interview Becky refers to a number of papers, including her recent Concurrent study on Voices, which is <a href="https://www.voices.no/index.php/voices/article/view/927" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here</a>. She also references the following: Ferrara, L. (1984) Phenomenology as a Tool for Musical Analysis. The Musical Quarterly, 70(3), pp. 355-373.  Wilson, G.B., and MacDonald, R.A. (2016) Musical choices during group free improvisation: A qualitative psychological investigation. Psychology of Music, 44(5), pp. 1029 - 1043.

Ep 12 Becky White

Julie Whelan

Luke talks to Julie Whelan, the CEO of Nordoff Robbins. Julie has had extensive experience of senior roles in education, local authority services, government and the charity sector. Her most recent roles were as founding CEO of the Dame Kelly Holmes Trust and in her seven years there she established the charity, it was recognised with a charity excellence award and it supported over 200,000 young people with mentoring programmes.  She joined Nordoff Robbins in 2015 and since her arrival the charity has already met its overarching goal to increase by 100% the number of people it can support with its life-changing music therapy. Julie is now leading the trustees and executive team into the next strategic planning process for 2019 -2024. In this interview Julie talks about some of the challenges she has faced in her new role, her personal perspectives on the music therapy profession, the importance of accountability, and lots more.

Luke talks to Julie Whelan, the CEO of Nordoff Robbins. Julie has had extensive experience of senior roles in education, local authority services, government and the charity sector. Her most recent roles were as founding CEO of the Dame Kelly Holmes Trust and in her seven years there she established the charity, it was recognised with a charity excellence award and it supported over 200,000 young people with mentoring programmes.  She joined <a href="https://www.nordoff-robbins.org.uk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nordoff Robbins</a> in 2015 and since her arrival the charity has already met its overarching goal to increase by 100% the number of people it can support with its life-changing music therapy. Julie is now leading the trustees and executive team into the next strategic planning process for 2019 -2024. In this interview Julie talks about some of the challenges she has faced in her new role, her personal perspectives on the music therapy profession, the importance of accountability, and lots more.

Ep 17 Julie Whelan

Josephine Davies

Josephine Davies is a jazz saxophonist, composer, existential psychotherapist and lecturer. She studied classical and jazz at Guildhall School of Music and Drama in London, and more recently trained at Regents’s University and the New School of Psychotherapy and Counselling. Though she is not a music therapist, Josephine is greatly interested in how therapies of all orientations can help people to access and express their creativity in their own unique ways. She is also deeply influenced by Japanese and Buddhist philosophies that celebrate the qualities of imperfection, impermanence and unity. Marrying these with various existential ideas underpins her view of the person, creative outlook, and more general lifestyle. You can still read Josephine’s  Facebook post, which we refer to during the interview, and you can find more examples of her recorded work, as well as gig listings, on her website.

Josephine Davies is a jazz saxophonist, composer, existential psychotherapist and lecturer. She studied classical and jazz at Guildhall School of Music and Drama in London, and more recently trained at Regents’s University and the New School of Psychotherapy and Counselling. Though she is not a music therapist, Josephine is greatly interested in how therapies of all orientations can help people to access and express their creativity in their own unique ways. She is also deeply influenced by Japanese and Buddhist philosophies that celebrate the qualities of imperfection, impermanence and unity. Marrying these with various existential ideas underpins her view of the person, creative outlook, and more general lifestyle. You can still read Josephine’s <a href="https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10156031243540729&amp;id=622365728" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Facebook post</a>, which we refer to during the interview, and you can find more examples of her recorded work, as well as gig listings, on her <a href="https://www.josephinedavies.co.uk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">website</a>.

Ep 16 Josephine Davies

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