Dan Wotherspoon

This three-part episode consists of a recording of a live event held Sunday evening, March 24, 2019 in Salt Lake City. It is an interview of Mormon Matters' longtime host, Dan Wotherspoon, about his eight years helming this podcast, and to formally announce his stepping down from the show and alerting all who are interested about what's next in his life. Sponsored by Mormon Stories, Mormon Matters, and the Waters of Mormon Facebook group, John Dehlin interviewed Dan, and others asked questions and shared various thoughts about the show and Dan and his new plans. It was a wonderful evening, with about seventy in attendance, and many more who watched a livestream, and we hope you'll enjoy this recording of a celebration and closure to this era of the Mormon Matters podcast. Parts 1 and 2 constitute the bulk of the interview, in which John asks Dan to share a bit about his life story and spiritual journey, various reflections on Mormon Matters, and about ways he holds various Mormon and Christian truth claims and ideas about God and the elements of a transformative life path in which we become more and more in alignment with God and/or the universe, and in that way, experience deep and abiding joy in our relationships and greater effectiveness within what we are being called to. Part 3 features the announcements of Dan's new podcast and other projects, as well as interactions with several audience members.  We hope you will enjoy this final trip with Dan as Mormon Matters host, and will continue to come to Mormon Matters for its 500+ episode back catalog, with their discussions of many and diverse aspects of Latter-day Saint life, thought, and events of note!

This three-part episode consists of a recording of a live event held Sunday evening, March 24, 2019 in Salt Lake City. It is an interview of Mormon Matters' longtime host, Dan Wotherspoon, about his eight years helming this podcast, and to formally announce his stepping down from the show and alerting all who are interested about what's next in his life. Sponsored by Mormon Stories, Mormon Matters, and the Waters of Mormon Facebook group, John Dehlin interviewed Dan, and others asked questions and shared various thoughts about the show and Dan and his new plans. It was a wonderful evening, with about seventy in attendance, and many more who watched a livestream, and we hope you'll enjoy this recording of a celebration and closure to this era of the Mormon Matters podcast. Parts 1 and 2 constitute the bulk of the interview, in which John asks Dan to share a bit about his life story and spiritual journey, various reflections on Mormon Matters, and about ways he holds various Mormon and Christian truth claims and ideas about God and the elements of a transformative life path in which we become more and more in alignment with God and/or the universe, and in that way, experience deep and abiding joy in our relationships and greater effectiveness within what we are being called to. Part 3 features the announcements of Dan's new podcast and other projects, as well as interactions with several audience members.  We hope you will enjoy this final trip with Dan as Mormon Matters host, and will continue to come to Mormon Matters for its 500+ episode back catalog, with their discussions of many and diverse aspects of Latter-day Saint life, thought, and events of note!

543: A Celebration of Dan Wotherspoon and Mormon Matters, Part 3

This three-part episode consists of a recording of a live event held Sunday evening, March 24, 2019 in Salt Lake City. It is an interview of Mormon Matters' longtime host, Dan Wotherspoon, about his eight years helming this podcast, and to formally announce his stepping down from the show and alerting all who are interested about what's next in his life. Sponsored by Mormon Stories, Mormon Matters, and the Waters of Mormon Facebook group, John Dehlin interviewed Dan, and others asked questions and shared various thoughts about the show and Dan and his new plans. It was a wonderful evening, with about seventy in attendance, and many more who watched a livestream, and we hope you'll enjoy this recording of a celebration and closure to this era of the Mormon Matters podcast. Parts 1 and 2 constitute the bulk of the interview, in which John asks Dan to share a bit about his life story and spiritual journey, various reflections on Mormon Matters, and about ways he holds various Mormon and Christian truth claims and ideas about God and the elements of a transformative life path in which we become more and more in alignment with God and/or the universe, and in that way, experience deep and abiding joy in our relationships and effectiveness in what we are being called to. Part 3 features the announcements of Dan's new podcast and other projects, as well as interactions with several audience members.  We hope you will enjoy this final trip with Dan as Mormon Matters host, and will continue to come to Mormon Matters for its 500+ episode back catalog, with their discussions of many and diverse aspects of Latter-day Saint life, thought, and events of note!

This three-part episode consists of a recording of a live event held Sunday evening, March 24, 2019 in Salt Lake City. It is an interview of Mormon Matters' longtime host, Dan Wotherspoon, about his eight years helming this podcast, and to formally announce his stepping down from the show and alerting all who are interested about what's next in his life. Sponsored by Mormon Stories, Mormon Matters, and the Waters of Mormon Facebook group, John Dehlin interviewed Dan, and others asked questions and shared various thoughts about the show and Dan and his new plans. It was a wonderful evening, with about seventy in attendance, and many more who watched a livestream, and we hope you'll enjoy this recording of a celebration and closure to this era of the Mormon Matters podcast. Parts 1 and 2 constitute the bulk of the interview, in which John asks Dan to share a bit about his life story and spiritual journey, various reflections on Mormon Matters, and about ways he holds various Mormon and Christian truth claims and ideas about God and the elements of a transformative life path in which we become more and more in alignment with God and/or the universe, and in that way, experience deep and abiding joy in our relationships and effectiveness in what we are being called to. Part 3 features the announcements of Dan's new podcast and other projects, as well as interactions with several audience members.  We hope you will enjoy this final trip with Dan as Mormon Matters host, and will continue to come to Mormon Matters for its 500+ episode back catalog, with their discussions of many and diverse aspects of Latter-day Saint life, thought, and events of note!

542: A Celebration of Dan Wotherspoon and Mormon Matters, Part 2

This three-part episode consists of a recording of a live event held Sunday evening, March 24, 2019 in Salt Lake City. It is an interview of Mormon Matters' longtime host, Dan Wotherspoon, about his eight years helming this podcast, and to formally announce his stepping down from the show and alerting all who are interested about what's next in his life. Sponsored by Mormon Stories, Mormon Matters, and the Waters of Mormon Facebook group, John Dehlin interviewed Dan, and others asked questions and shared various thoughts about the show and Dan and his new plans. It was a wonderful evening, with about seventy in attendance, and many more who watched a livestream, and we hope you'll enjoy this recording of a celebration and closure to this era of the Mormon Matters podcast.  Parts 1 and 2 constitute the bulk of the interview, in which John asks Dan to share a bit about his life story and spiritual journey, various reflections on Mormon Matters, and about ways he holds various Mormon and Christian truth claims and ideas about God and the elements of a transformative life path in which we become more and more in alignment with God and/or the universe, and in that way, experience deep and abiding joy in our relationships and what we are being called to.  Part 3 features the announcements of Dan's new podcast and other projects, as well as interactions with several audience members.   We hope you will enjoy this final trip with Dan as Mormon Matters host, and will continue to come to Mormon Matters for its 500+ episode back catalog, with their discussions of many and diverse aspects of Latter-day Saint life, thought, and events of note!

This three-part episode consists of a recording of a live event held Sunday evening, March 24, 2019 in Salt Lake City. It is an interview of Mormon Matters' longtime host, Dan Wotherspoon, about his eight years helming this podcast, and to formally announce his stepping down from the show and alerting all who are interested about what's next in his life. Sponsored by Mormon Stories, Mormon Matters, and the Waters of Mormon Facebook group, John Dehlin interviewed Dan, and others asked questions and shared various thoughts about the show and Dan and his new plans. It was a wonderful evening, with about seventy in attendance, and many more who watched a livestream, and we hope you'll enjoy this recording of a celebration and closure to this era of the Mormon Matters podcast. Parts 1 and 2 constitute the bulk of the interview, in which John asks Dan to share a bit about his life story and spiritual journey, various reflections on Mormon Matters, and about ways he holds various Mormon and Christian truth claims and ideas about God and the elements of a transformative life path in which we become more and more in alignment with God and/or the universe, and in that way, experience deep and abiding joy in our relationships and what we are being called to. Part 3 features the announcements of Dan's new podcast and other projects, as well as interactions with several audience members.  We hope you will enjoy this final trip with Dan as Mormon Matters host, and will continue to come to Mormon Matters for its 500+ episode back catalog, with their discussions of many and diverse aspects of Latter-day Saint life, thought, and events of note!

541: Celebrating Dan Wotherspoon and Mormon Matters, Part 1

In the brilliant and fascinating new book, The Next Mormons: How Millennials Are Changing the LDS Church, Jana Riess, with collaboration from Benjamin Knoll shares results from a huge, representative, survey they designed and administered that compares Millennial Mormons with two other generations—Boomers/Silent Generation and Generation X in ten major areas. In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon focuses the conversation on three of these: beliefs (in God and various LDS claims and directives), practices (from church attendance, to prayer, scripture reading, and more), and how members of each generation decides what sources are most authoritative in their lives. The book also covers LDS missionary experiences, rites of passage such as baptism and other ordinances, as well as experiences with the Temple; Singleness within the church; gender-related topics; Mormonism and race; LGBT inclusion; and social and political views. Another chapter looks at Millennials who are former Mormons.   We are excited to have Jana and Ben join us for a fascinating discussion of the chosen themes and a bit more. They are engaging, thoughtful, incredibly informed. Plus you can learn more about the book, including where you might purchase it, as well as the website that features additional materials, synopses, the survey itself, and regular updates.

In the brilliant and fascinating new book, The Next Mormons: How Millennials Are Changing the LDS Church, Jana Riess, with collaboration from Benjamin Knoll shares results from a huge, representative, survey they designed and administered that compares Millennial Mormons with two other generations—Boomers/Silent Generation and Generation X in ten major areas. In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon focuses the conversation on three of these: beliefs (in God and various LDS claims and directives), practices (from church attendance, to prayer, scripture reading, and more), and how members of each generation decides what sources are most authoritative in their lives. The book also covers LDS missionary experiences, rites of passage such as baptism and other ordinances, as well as experiences with the Temple; Singleness within the church; gender-related topics; Mormonism and race; LGBT inclusion; and social and political views. Another chapter looks at Millennials who are former Mormons.  We are excited to have Jana and Ben join us for a fascinating discussion of the chosen themes and a bit more. They are engaging, thoughtful, incredibly informed. Plus you can learn more about the book, including where you might purchase it, as well as the website that features additional materials, synopses, the survey itself, and regular updates.

540: Millennial Mormons—Beliefs, Practices, and Authority Structures

This episode was conceived as a supplement to the previous one, the two-parter 537–538: Being "Good and Mad" within Mormonism,  featuring Kristine Haglund. It certainly serves well as that but ended up being more of a full episode than originally envisioned. In particular, the topic is the potent emotion of “outrage” and it’s very strong role in driving much of social media, that then fosters thinking and speaking habits that can cripple our ability to engage with others in ways that might truly be transformative and work for the good of the changes we want to see instantiated.   Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon invited his friend and former colleague, John Hatch, to come on the show to read a short essay about outrage that he wrote about five years ago and presented at a Sunstone symposium session focused on moving beyond “black and white thinking.” He reads that piece here, and then the conversation that followed went into explorations that led to additional dives into other related ideas. It’s a terrific essay, accompanied by discussion of some of its themes that we hope you will also find interesting and worthwhile!

This episode was conceived as a supplement to the previous one, the two-parter 537–538: Being "Good and Mad" within Mormonism,  featuring Kristine Haglund. It certainly serves well as that but ended up being more of a full episode than originally envisioned. In particular, the topic is the potent emotion of “outrage” and it’s very strong role in driving much of social media, that then fosters thinking and speaking habits that can cripple our ability to engage with others in ways that might truly be transformative and work for the good of the changes we want to see instantiated.  Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon invited his friend and former colleague, John Hatch, to come on the show to read a short essay about outrage that he wrote about five years ago and presented at a Sunstone symposium session focused on moving beyond “black and white thinking.” He reads that piece here, and then the conversation that followed went into explorations that led to additional dives into other related ideas. It’s a terrific essay, accompanied by discussion of some of its themes that we hope you will also find interesting and worthwhile!

539: Moving Beyond Toxic "Outrage"

In this two-part episode, a conversation between Kristine Haglund and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, Kristine shares insights and distillations from various sources and her own thinking about "anger" and ways to understand and better utilize its energy, especially within Mormonism. In her presentation, she picks up the term, "Good and Mad" from Rebecca Traister's recent book, Good and Mad: The Revolutionary Power of Women's Anger, and applies it as an aspirational ideal within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—Ways we might learn to be both angry (and harness its power) and good (operate within acceptable discourse and behavioral standards). Whereas there is no setting in today's very top-down hierarchal structure in which anger can be well-received, regardless of our sex, we can, however, learn how to effectively channel our strong senses of "This is not right" or "No God I can ever believe in would countenance this sort of behavior (or teaching)" into forms that can lead to interpersonal as well as organizational changes.  This is a terrific listen containing many powerful insights. Part 1 offers a wide framing of the topic, and Part 2 introduces and discusses Kristine's ten different principles for helping us better comprehend our own and others' anger, and to then make sure its energies don't go to waste as easily as they often do in this day of social media and its unfortunate stock-in-trade: outrage, and then outrage about what's the proper amount of outrage, ad infinitum. Kristine originally presented some of the ideas within this episode at the Utah Valley University Mormon Studies Conference, "Women of Mormondom," held March 7–8, 2019. Audio/video of the conference's sessions is forthcoming very soon.

In this two-part episode, a conversation between Kristine Haglund and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, Kristine shares insights and distillations from various sources and her own thinking about "anger" and ways to understand and better utilize its energy, especially within Mormonism. In her presentation, she picks up the term, "Good and Mad" from Rebecca Traister's recent book, Good and Mad: The Revolutionary Power of Women's Anger, and applies it as an aspirational ideal within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—Ways we might learn to be both angry (and harness its power) and good (operate within acceptable discourse and behavioral standards). Whereas there is no setting in today's very top-down hierarchal structure in which anger can be well-received, regardless of our sex, we can, however, learn how to effectively channel our strong senses of "This is not right" or "No God I can ever believe in would countenance this sort of behavior (or teaching)" into forms that can lead to interpersonal as well as organizational changes. This is a terrific listen containing many powerful insights. Part 1 offers a wide framing of the topic, and Part 2 introduces and discusses Kristine's ten different principles for helping us better comprehend our own and others' anger, and to then make sure its energies don't go to waste as easily as they often do in this day of social media and its unfortunate stock-in-trade: outrage, and then outrage about what's the proper amount of outrage, ad infinitum. Kristine originally presented some of the ideas within this episode at the Utah Valley University Mormon Studies Conference, "Women of Mormondom," held March 7–8, 2019. Audio/video of the conference's sessions is forthcoming very soon.

538: Being "Good and Mad" Within Mormonism, Part 2

In this two-part episode, a conversation between Kristine Haglund and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, Kristine shares insights and distillations from various sources and her own thinking about "anger" and ways to understand and better utilize its energy, especially within Mormonism. In her presentation, she picks up the term, "Good and Mad" from Rebecca Traister's recent book, Good and Mad: The Revolutionary Power of Women's Anger, and applies it as an aspirational ideal within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—Ways we might learn to be both angry (and harness its power) and good (operate within acceptable discourse and behavioral standards). Whereas there is no setting in today's very top-down hierarchal structure in which anger can be well-received, regardless of our sex, we can, however, learn how to effectively channel our strong senses of "This is not right" or "No God I can ever believe in would countenance this sort of behavior (or teaching)" into forms that can lead to interpersonal as well as organizational changes.  This is a terrific listen containing many powerful insights. Part 1 offers a wide framing of the topic, and Part 2 introduces and discusses Kristine's ten different principles for helping us better comprehend our own and others' anger, and to then make sure its energies don't go to waste as easily as they often do in this day of social media and its unfortunate stock-in-trade: outrage, and then outrage about what's the proper amount of outrage, ad infinitum. Kristine originally presented some of the ideas within this episode at the Utah Valley University Mormon Studies Conference, "Women of Mormondom," held March 7–8, 2019. Audio/video of the conference's sessions is forthcoming very soon.

In this two-part episode, a conversation between Kristine Haglund and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, Kristine shares insights and distillations from various sources and her own thinking about "anger" and ways to understand and better utilize its energy, especially within Mormonism. In her presentation, she picks up the term, "Good and Mad" from Rebecca Traister's recent book, Good and Mad: The Revolutionary Power of Women's Anger, and applies it as an aspirational ideal within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—Ways we might learn to be both angry (and harness its power) and good (operate within acceptable discourse and behavioral standards). Whereas there is no setting in today's very top-down hierarchal structure in which anger can be well-received, regardless of our sex, we can, however, learn how to effectively channel our strong senses of "This is not right" or "No God I can ever believe in would countenance this sort of behavior (or teaching)" into forms that can lead to interpersonal as well as organizational changes. This is a terrific listen containing many powerful insights. Part 1 offers a wide framing of the topic, and Part 2 introduces and discusses Kristine's ten different principles for helping us better comprehend our own and others' anger, and to then make sure its energies don't go to waste as easily as they often do in this day of social media and its unfortunate stock-in-trade: outrage, and then outrage about what's the proper amount of outrage, ad infinitum. Kristine originally presented some of the ideas within this episode at the Utah Valley University Mormon Studies Conference, "Women of Mormondom," held March 7–8, 2019. Audio/video of the conference's sessions is forthcoming very soon.

537: Being "Good and Mad" Within Mormonism, Part 1

The classic theological puzzle known as the “problem of evil” arises when we assert the existence of an all-powerful God who is also perfectly loving, while also asserting the presence of genuine evil in the world. As David Hume puts the case: “Either God would remove evil out of this world, and cannot; or He can, and will not; or, He has not the power nor will; or, lastly He has both the power and will. If He has the will, and not the power, this shows weakness, which is contrary to the nature of God. If He has the power, and not the will it is malignity, and this is no less contrary to His nature. If He is neither able nor willing, He is both impotent and malignant, and consequently cannot be God. If he is both willing and able (which alone is consonant to the nature of God), whence comes evil, or why does he not prevent it?” Very often, as in Hume’s framing above, the focus of efforts to approach the “problem” is on God. Can God? Should God? Is God? Why does/doesn't God? In a departure from this, in this episode the panelists place greater attention on those who are currently, or who have, suffered great evil, and how traditional approaches so often fail them. In many cases, one of the costs of great suffering, especially when it does not arise as a natural consequence of something we did, is the loss of faith in God altogether. More atheists are created by the fact of genuine, massive, and seemingly unfair distribution of great suffering than any other trigger. Clearly, in such cases, an “omni-everything” concept of God fails as a being or power that is able to comfort those who suffer. In a new book, God Can’t: How to Believe in God and Love after Tragedy, Abuse, and Other Evils, Christian and open-relational theologian Thomas Jay Oord directly faces the effects on individual faith that arise from evil. Through his posing and discussing five theological claims about God's loving nature in relation to evil, many Christians, and we sense Latter-day Saints would as well, have at last found new hope and the kind of comfort and peace that only an explicit faith in God can bring. Brittney Hartley and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon join Tom in discussing the ideas of his book, while contributing as they arise various places where Mormon thought is in close alignment with his theses. In the final section, they also discuss one large disconnect between Tom’s and wider Christianity’s view of God and that of Latter-day Saints: the question of whether God is embodied or not. It leads to a fascinating exchange, even as it primes the pump for many more explorations. We are grateful to Tom as an open-hearted, brilliant, and friendly conversation partner. Here’s to more episodes to come! Please listen in! Share! And be mindful that we’d also love your comments and ideas to become part of the ongoing conversations at mormonmatters.org!

The classic theological puzzle known as the “problem of evil” arises when we assert the existence of an all-powerful God who is also perfectly loving, while also asserting the presence of genuine evil in the world. As David Hume puts the case: “Either God would remove evil out of this world, and cannot; or He can, and will not; or, He has not the power nor will; or, lastly He has both the power and will. If He has the will, and not the power, this shows weakness, which is contrary to the nature of God. If He has the power, and not the will it is malignity, and this is no less contrary to His nature. If He is neither able nor willing, He is both impotent and malignant, and consequently cannot be God. If he is both willing and able (which alone is consonant to the nature of God), whence comes evil, or why does he not prevent it?” Very often, as in Hume’s framing above, the focus of efforts to approach the “problem” is on God. Can God? Should God? Is God? Why does/doesn't God? In a departure from this, in this episode the panelists place greater attention on those who are currently, or who have, suffered great evil, and how traditional approaches so often fail them. In many cases, one of the costs of great suffering, especially when it does not arise as a natural consequence of something we did, is the loss of faith in God altogether. More atheists are created by the fact of genuine, massive, and seemingly unfair distribution of great suffering than any other trigger. Clearly, in such cases, an “omni-everything” concept of God fails as a being or power that is able to comfort those who suffer. In a new book, God Can’t: How to Believe in God and Love after Tragedy, Abuse, and Other Evils, Christian and open-relational theologian Thomas Jay Oord directly faces the effects on individual faith that arise from evil. Through his posing and discussing five theological claims about God's loving nature in relation to evil, many Christians, and we sense Latter-day Saints would as well, have at last found new hope and the kind of comfort and peace that only an explicit faith in God can bring. Brittney Hartley and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon join Tom in discussing the ideas of his book, while contributing as they arise various places where Mormon thought is in close alignment with his theses. In the final section, they also discuss one large disconnect between Tom’s and wider Christianity’s view of God and that of Latter-day Saints: the question of whether God is embodied or not. It leads to a fascinating exchange, even as it primes the pump for many more explorations. We are grateful to Tom as an open-hearted, brilliant, and friendly conversation partner. Here’s to more episodes to come! Please listen in! Share! And be mindful that we’d also love your comments and ideas to become part of the ongoing conversations at <a href="http://mormonmatters.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">mormonmatters.org</a>!

536: God, Evil, Faith

No term to date has been more associated with the leadership tenure of President Russell M. Nelson than “Covenant Path.” It’s become ubiquitous in his and many other church leader messages, and it now also rolls easily off the tongues in LDS stakes, wards, and other conversations. It’s an intriguing term, yet to date, it seems to Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and his friend and fellow close church watcher Mark Crego that it hasn’t been explored as widely and deeply as it might. Right now, in its current usage, comes across primarily a goal to be accomplished—"make and keep covenants, and if you stray, return to the covenant path"—with a promised reward at the end: eternal life (with all its inherent meanings when understood in full Latter-day Saint context). In that sort of presentation, walking the covenant path feels very “transactional.” Do this, receive that. To Dan and Mark, however, the idea of both “covenant(s)” and “path(s)” are very rich concepts, and in this two-part episode they share what they consider to be larger and more ennobling visions of what this simple phrase might mean were we as Godwrestlers and faith journeyers to keep revisiting this term and allow its symbolism and sensibilities to grow along with us as we continue to walk our spiritual paths. Among other things, this episode covers: What are Mormonism’s seven primary covenants that make up the “covenant path”? What is their relationship to each of us individually and our relationship with God, however we define that term, but also (and perhaps even more importantly) as members of a religious or community? What roles do symbols and ritual markers of covenanting play in human lives, and can we allow our understanding of such things to become ever expanding and empowering? As LDS rhetoric about the covenant path is still in its infancy, how might each of us learn to understand it and teach of its richness with far more power than we currently do and see/hear from those around us? Please listen in! We’d also love your comments and ideas to become part of the ongoing conversations at mormonmatters.org! Please share!

No term to date has been more associated with the leadership tenure of President Russell M. Nelson than “Covenant Path.” It’s become ubiquitous in his and many other church leader messages, and it now also rolls easily off the tongues in LDS stakes, wards, and other conversations. It’s an intriguing term, yet to date, it seems to Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and his friend and fellow close church watcher Mark Crego that it hasn’t been explored as widely and deeply as it might. Right now, in its current usage, comes across primarily a goal to be accomplished—"make and keep covenants, and if you stray, return to the covenant path"—with a promised reward at the end: eternal life (with all its inherent meanings when understood in full Latter-day Saint context). In that sort of presentation, walking the covenant path feels very “transactional.” Do this, receive that. To Dan and Mark, however, the idea of both “covenant(s)” and “path(s)” are very rich concepts, and in this two-part episode they share what they consider to be larger and more ennobling visions of what this simple phrase might mean were we as Godwrestlers and faith journeyers to keep revisiting this term and allow its symbolism and sensibilities to grow along with us as we continue to walk our spiritual paths. Among other things, this episode covers: What are Mormonism’s seven primary covenants that make up the “covenant path”? What is their relationship to each of us individually and our relationship with God, however we define that term, but also (and perhaps even more importantly) as members of a religious or community? What roles do symbols and ritual markers of covenanting play in human lives, and can we allow our understanding of such things to become ever expanding and empowering? As LDS rhetoric about the covenant path is still in its infancy, how might each of us learn to understand it and teach of its richness with far more power than we currently do and see/hear from those around us? Please listen in! We’d also love your comments and ideas to become part of the ongoing conversations at <a href="http://mormonmatters.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">mormonmatters.org</a>! Please share!

535: “The Covenant Path”: Reflections and Extensions, Part 2

534: “The Covenant Path”: Reflections and Extensions, Part 1

Mormon Matters was a weekly podcast that explored Mormon current events, pop culture, politics and spirituality.Dan retired from Mormon Matters Podcast in 2019 and now hosts a podcast called "Latter-day Faith" that can be found here:http://podcast.latterdayfaith.org/

One of the best podcasts, doesn&#39;t give you a cookie cutter approach to topics.

Fabulous

This podcast can best described by the phrase “it is what it is” ...thank you Dan and co.!

Objective, refreshing, academic, fair, respectful, compassionate, etc.

Mormon Matters was a weekly podcast that explored Mormon current events, pop culture, politics and spirituality. Dan retired from Mormon Matters Podcast in 2019 and now hosts a podcast called "Latter-day Faith" that can be found here: <a href="http://podcast.latterdayfaith.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://podcast.latterdayfaith.org/</a>

Mormon Matters - (Dan Wotherspoon ARCHIVE)

Excerpts from two talks by prominent General Authorities (one by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, and the other by Elder Richard J. Maynes) have in the past two weeks generated a lot of buzz in certain online forums that many listeners to this program would be familiar with, most of it negative or sarcastic. The reactions came mostly to a few sentences from the talks, presented online largely without wider framing, and sometimes placed as part of online memes designed to heighten the impact of the quotations being read in a particular way. The memes and presentations themselves suggest how a viewer or reader should react to the words being quoted. But is this a fair--"virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy"--way of presenting ideas, especially those with which we have an issue? Is it fair to the speaker? To the readers? Is it deliberate dissembling? Those who write or pass these along generally know that what they are doing is presenting to some degree a caricature of a speaker and her or his presentation, something deliberately distorting, and they also know that many who encounter the meme or quotations will most likely react the way the intend and very seldom will themselves chase down the fuller context. In this episode, Kristine Haglund and Jon Grimes join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon to talk about the two talks in question and what unfolded online. They each certainly take exception to things said in each talk, the way they were said, or in some other way wish various ideas had been presented differently, but they also attempt to give much fuller context to the speeches, their settings, and other factors that mitigate against much of the full-on negative or exasperated reactions that occurred. The conversation also takes important turns in other directions, for instance on the way Latter-day Saints (and others) read or use scripture, as well as about the nature of religious experience and how humans tell of them. After closing the conversation with the two panelists, Dan Wotherspoon then speaks for a few minutes about another recent talk, the BYU commencement address by Elder L. Whitney Clayton, that he felt also suffers from distortions in certain online conversation about parts of it.

331: Reflections on Two Recent Talks and the Online Reactions They Generated

The Apostle Paul’s theology can be difficult to grasp--and in a few ways, especially so for Mormons. Some challenges arise from Latter-day Saints’ primary use of the King James Translation of the Bible, which has often very beautiful language but contains archaic expressions that sometimes confuse English readers and obscure key connections between ideas. Another factor has been Mormonism’s attempts to differentiate itself from mainline and evangelical Christianity, which, in so doing, has caused it to de-emphasize Paul’s writings since they are so pivotal in shaping the understandings in these other traditions. One huge cost of this shying away from things that sound "too Protestant" has been a Mormon de-emphasis on--and huge misunderstanding of--the central theological tenet of Grace, especially as it relates to sin and "the law." In the past two decades, however, several popular Mormon theologians have begun to rescue Grace and Paul’s central messaging from their background positions. This episode’s guests, Adam S. Miller and Joseph Spencer, are two of these theologians who have done a great deal of important thinking, writing, and speaking about Grace and its relationship to other familiar but often misunderstood and misjudged elements of Paul’s theology. In this discussion, and through his an aptly titled book, Grace Is Not God’s Backup Plan: An Urgent Paraphrase of Paul’s Letter to the Romans, Miller gets to the heart of LDS misunderstandings of Grace. As he sees Paul teaching, it is not a response to sin, a kind of divine approval that bridges the gap that always will remain even "after all we can do" (a common misreading of what is being taught in 2 Nephi 25:23). Miller writes: "Grace is not God’s backup plan. Jesus is not plan B. God’s boundless grace comes first and sin is what follows. Grace is not God’s response to sin. Sin is our embarrassed, improvised, rebellious rejection of God’s original grace." Besides Grace, Miller and Spencer also lead us in wonderful explications of Paul’s views on sin, the law, death, and faith. In so doing, they help reveal the "underlying logic" of Paul’s brilliant theology, presenting it in a very compelling way.

272: Paul’s Theology

We Latter-day Saints "talk of Christ . . . rejoice in Christ . . . preach of Christ . . . prophesy of Christ . . . and write of Christ, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins" (2 Nephi 25:26). But have we always been consistent in our understanding of Christ? What are the evolutions in thought about Christ that we have undergone in the nearly two centuries since the church’s founding? How did earlier Latter-day Saints understand certain terms in ways that are different from today’s views? We Mormons also speak regularly of the importance of "coming unto Christ," "taking his name upon us," "standing as a witness for Christ," and "becoming perfect in Christ." What do we mean by these terms? Do they have multiple layers that can reveal great richness when we examine them deeply? In this five-part episode, Charley Harrell, Jody England Hansen, and Phil McLemore join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon in an extensive dive in both doctrinal and devotional aspects related to our Christian beliefs and experiences.

239: Jesus Christ within Mormonism, Part 1

John G. Turner’s recent book, The Mormon Jesus: A Biography (Harvard University Press, 2016) presents a wonderful overview of the various ways Mormon scripture, leaders, and lay members understand Jesus Christ--and how these views developed over time, and why. As a non-Mormon historian and scholar of religions, Turner approaches this subject in a way not easily imitated by LDS scholars, seeing things about the teachings about Christ in the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith's Translation of the Bible, and other texts through lenses and thought frameworks that are unencumbered by decades of Mormon interpretation or assumptions that they will all be consistent with each other. Tackling not only LDS scripture, but also messages about personal religious experiences, the role of prophets as mouthpieces for Christ, changing views about the Second Coming, understandings of Jesus as our "elder brother" and the "son of God," as Jehovah of the Hebrew Bible, whether or not Jesus was married and the place of Second Anointings in LDS theology, and also Mormon depictions of Jesus Christ through various artistic media, Turner presents a rich and interesting array of ideas, controversies, and official (as well as folk) beliefs and their development. Mormonism, for Turner, is thoroughly Christian, with many of its ideas about Christ congruent with (or with roots in) at least some lines of thought in wider Christianity, but with others quite striking or unique. In this episode, John Turner joins a podcast favorite, historian of LDS doctrine Charles Harrell, and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon in an engaging discussion of several of the books’ subjects and arguments. As always, we discover that Mormon doctrine is not straightforward, nor did it evolve to its current positions via a clear revelatory path--which is just one reason it is always so fascinating!

330: Mormonism’s Jesus

On Thursday, November 5th, we learned of several new additions to the Church Handbook of Instructions, Volume 1, which guides members of stake presidencies and bishoprics in their duties and responsibilities. The substance of these policy changes is (1) that Latter-day Saint adults who are in a same-sex marriage or cohabitating with a member of the same sex are now considered in "apostasy," with leaders specifically directed to call disciplinary councils for those who fit these criteria; and (2) that children under the age of 18 from these relationships, and who live at least part-time in the home of a parent in a same-sex relationship, may not be given a name and a blessing in an official church setting (one that would generate a membership record for them), nor can they be baptized, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, be ordained to priesthood, or serve a mission. At age 18, baptism and mission service come back onto the table as a possibility for them, should they desire, but in order to qualify for consideration, they must satisfy a stake or mission president that they repudiate same-sex relationships and affirm the Church’s teachings and policies concerning them. At that point, their case is referred to the First Presidency who must then give approval before their baptism or mission processes can go forward. In this episode, the first of at least two that Mormon Matters will host, we are blessed to be able to hear from Carol Lynn Pearson and Mitch Mayne, two active Latter-day Saints in good standing who are also prominent voices in conversations about LGBT Mormons. In conversation with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, Carol Lynn and Mitch share they are personally processing the new policy changes, report on their experiences with others and how they are reacting to the news as well as how certain church leaders are reacting (in both loving and more cold and administrative ways), and even predict results that are already and will likely continue to follow from these new guidelines. Mostly they and Dan share thoughts on ways forward for them. What from their own lives or looks at history are beacons of hope for them? Where are they finding strength to continue journeying and serving in Mormon communities even during these most difficult times?

305: Church Handbook Change Regarding LGBT Men and Women and their Children--Part 1: Thoughts on How to Move Forward with Faith and Hope

Mormon Marriages

Mormon theology, including temple covenants, along with pulpit and lesson rhetoric and cultural and community discourse place a strong emphasis on the family. It also focuses on our becoming as fully like God as we can, including perfecting the combination of strength and vulnerability, and independence and relationality. In Mormon marriages, this means developing full intimacy with our spouses, which requires first a genuine intimacy with ourselves, facing our challenges and becoming whole. All of our theology and values point to this type of “becoming”—becoming one with God, within ourselves, and with our spouse. Yet, are there aspects of Mormon thought, culture, and practice that work against the development of genuine intimacy between spouses? And, if so, how might we come to better understand these in ways that will allow us ultimately to change them, but along the way, for ourselves, to at least transcend them? In this episode, Carol Lynn Pearson, Stephen Carter, and Jennifer Finlayson-Fife join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a focused discussion of intimacy in Mormon Marriages. Pearson alerts us to the negative consequences of the persistence of polygamy in our doctrines, practices, and in the hearts and minds of many Latter-day Saints, leading to a terrific discussion that dives down several more layers and, ultimately, to our imagining a “partnership” future that has transcended the harm engendered by “patriarchy.” Carter takes us into several interesting areas related to gender roles, church structures, and ways that the LDS culture places “value” on and judges the success or failure of a marriage—all of which that work against intimacy. Finlayson-Fife lifts up examples and insights from her career as a marriage and family therapist working with Mormon clientele, along with calling us again and again to pay attention to the core gospel of Jesus Christ, what Christ pointed to, which is internal transformation and development not external performance.

Mormon theology, including temple covenants, along with pulpit and lesson rhetoric and cultural and community discourse place a strong emphasis on the family. It also focuses on our becoming as fully like God as we can, including perfecting the combination of strength and vulnerability, and independence and relationality. In Mormon marriages, this means developing full intimacy with our spouses, which requires first a genuine intimacy with ourselves, facing our challenges and becoming whole. All of our theology and values point to this type of “becoming”—becoming one with God, within ourselves, and with our spouse. Yet, are there aspects of Mormon thought, culture, and practice that work against the development of genuine intimacy between spouses? And, if so, how might we come to better understand these in ways that will allow us ultimately to change them, but along the way, for ourselves, to at least transcend them? In this episode, Carol Lynn Pearson, Stephen Carter, and Jennifer Finlayson-Fife join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a focused discussion of intimacy in Mormon Marriages. Pearson alerts us to the negative consequences of the persistence of polygamy in our doctrines, practices, and in the hearts and minds of many Latter-day Saints, leading to a terrific discussion that dives down several more layers and, ultimately, to our imagining a “partnership” future that has transcended the harm engendered by “patriarchy.” Carter takes us into several interesting areas related to gender roles, church structures, and ways that the LDS culture places “value” on and judges the success or failure of a marriage—all of which that work against intimacy. Finlayson-Fife lifts up examples and insights from her career as a marriage and family therapist working with Mormon clientele, along with calling us again and again to pay attention to the core gospel of Jesus Christ, what Christ pointed to, which is internal transformation and development not external performance.

346: Intimacy in Mormon Marriages

This is a quick turnaround podcast episode both recorded and released on the day after LDS temples around the world implemented and offered to patrons a new version of the endowment ceremony, as well as changes to the scripts of both the sealing and women's initiatory ordinances. We do not go into great specific detail about the changes within the conversation presented here other than to reflect upon the greater equality now experienced between men and women within the rituals, as well as a offering a few references to other changes. What this episode DOES include, however, are wonderful reflections by three brilliant and powerful spiritual seekers—Jody England Hansen, Julie de Azevedo Hanks, and Mark Crego—about their experiences from either participating yesterday in the temple since the changes were implements and/or their having collected a great deal of reactions to them from Latter-day Saints.They also join with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon in helping frame what the temple ritual is and is not, the power of symbolic/mythic/ritual engagement in spiritual journeys, why changes to temple and other rituals are often made and why it is vital that they are. In these reflections, they each also share a bit about their own journeys to come to understand sacred texts—scripture, ritual scripts and practices, etc.—in new and far more profound ways than how they had earlier in their lives.  We may have this episode together quickly, but the insights and their power are anything but rushed and easily forgotten. Please listen in! You will not regret it! 

This is a quick turnaround podcast episode both recorded and released on the day after LDS temples around the world implemented and offered to patrons a new version of the endowment ceremony, as well as changes to the scripts of both the sealing and women's initiatory ordinances. We do not go into great specific detail about the changes within the conversation presented here other than to reflect upon the greater equality now experienced between men and women within the rituals, as well as a offering a few references to other changes. What this episode DOES include, however, are wonderful reflections by three brilliant and powerful spiritual seekers—Jody England Hansen, Julie de Azevedo Hanks, and Mark Crego—about their experiences from either participating yesterday in the temple since the changes were implements and/or their having collected a great deal of reactions to them from Latter-day Saints.They also join with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon in helping frame what the temple ritual is and is not, the power of symbolic/mythic/ritual engagement in spiritual journeys, why changes to temple and other rituals are often made and why it is vital that they are. In these reflections, they each also share a bit about their own journeys to come to understand sacred texts—scripture, ritual scripts and practices, etc.—in new and far more profound ways than how they had earlier in their lives. We may have this episode together quickly, but the insights and their power are anything but rushed and easily forgotten. Please listen in! You will not regret it!

530: Impressions and Reflections on Changes to LDS Temple Ceremonies

Julie de Azevedo Hanks

Dr. Julie de Azevedo Hanks has over the past decade-plus become a leading voice in mental health, marriage and family, women's issues, and faith journey circles. As a therapist and clinician, she has worked with many people, most of them Latter-day Saints, and now supervises some fifteen other therapists. She is an author of two books, The Burnout Cure: An Emotional Survival Guide for Overwhelmed Women and The Assertiveness Guide: How to Communicate Your Needs, Set Healthy Boundaries, and Transform Your Relationships. She is a go-to person for many members of the media when they want to talk with someone about Mormon and/or women's issues, including very recently being featured many, many times in stories written in the wake of the MTC sexual abuse scandal and how it has been addressed by the LDS Church and within the community. But her earliest steps into a spotlight came through her musical gifts and a songwriter and singer, a career that led to many songs and albums, and that garnered her many awards in LDS and faith-based music circles. Julie seems to have led a charmed life, built always for a public life.  But, like all of us, life has not been without its challenges. She has faced heartbreak and sadness, loss of a sense of her own place within the universe and God's plan, difficulties navigating career and family and church and all it's pre-prescribed roles for women, and much more. All of these, however, have been essential in her becoming such an effective therapist and insightful and sought-after teacher and speaker. In this in-depth interview about her life and careers, and her family and church lives, as well, Julie allows us a glimpse into her own journey with faith and Mormonism and how, through many difficulties, she has come to the grounding she has found—a sense of calling to this particular life among these particular people. As you listen, I know that you'll be moved by her story, her emotion, her courage, and her emergence as a healer extraordinaire.

Dr. Julie de Azevedo Hanks has over the past decade-plus become a leading voice in mental health, marriage and family, women's issues, and faith journey circles. As a therapist and clinician, she has worked with many people, most of them Latter-day Saints, and now supervises some fifteen other therapists. She is an author of two books, The Burnout Cure: An Emotional Survival Guide for Overwhelmed Women and The Assertiveness Guide: How to Communicate Your Needs, Set Healthy Boundaries, and Transform Your Relationships. She is a go-to person for many members of the media when they want to talk with someone about Mormon and/or women's issues, including very recently being featured many, many times in stories written in the wake of the MTC sexual abuse scandal and how it has been addressed by the LDS Church and within the community. But her earliest steps into a spotlight came through her musical gifts and a songwriter and singer, a career that led to many songs and albums, and that garnered her many awards in LDS and faith-based music circles. Julie seems to have led a charmed life, built always for a public life. But, like all of us, life has not been without its challenges. She has faced heartbreak and sadness, loss of a sense of her own place within the universe and God's plan, difficulties navigating career and family and church and all it's pre-prescribed roles for women, and much more. All of these, however, have been essential in her becoming such an effective therapist and insightful and sought-after teacher and speaker. In this in-depth interview about her life and careers, and her family and church lives, as well, Julie allows us a glimpse into her own journey with faith and Mormonism and how, through many difficulties, she has come to the grounding she has found—a sense of calling to this particular life among these particular people. As you listen, I know that you'll be moved by her story, her emotion, her courage, and her emergence as a healer extraordinaire.

476: A Healer's Healing Journey: An Interview with Dr. Julie de Azevedo Hanks

Mormon Matters is launching a new series that focuses on Latter-day Saints who, in addition to their Mormonism, are intimately familiar with another religion or philosophical tradition and whose spirituality has grown through that encounter. In this first episode of the series, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon engages four LDS Freemasons: Patrick McLeary, Lorenzo (Lon) Tibbetts, Joe Swick, and George Miller. Why did they become Masons? Given the history of sometimes difficult relationship between Mormons and Masons, and also certain LDS cultural pressures that tell us that Mormonism should be able to serve all our spiritual and social needs, did they have any spiritual qualms about joining? What has their Mormonism alerted them to as they bring their LDS backgrounds into their Masonic experiences? And, even more pertinent to this series about the mutual enhancement that can occur when we bring two traditions into close encounter, what is it about the rituals, teachings, and social life of Freemasonry that enhances their LDS spiritual life, their understandings about Mormon rituals and Joseph Smith’s "project"? This is a marvelous discussion. It’s fascinating to learn a bit about Freemasonry, but even more wonderful to spend time with these brilliant, well-spoken, and deeply spiritual men. A great series kick-off!

236: Encountering Other Traditions, Part 1: Freemasonry

In the Doctrine and Covenants, we read that it is through ordinances that "the power of godliness is manifest" (D&amp;C 84:20). There are many ways to read this scripture, various angles to take, and all of them are fruitful. In this two-part episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Samuel Brown and Brad Kramer first look at the "ritual" aspects of ordinances, the origins of and way that actions designed to take us out of the normal flow of life’s activities and consciousness and into something more purposeful and symbol-drenched can affect our ability to experience things in ways that many find empowering and enlightening (a kind of "power of godliness being manifest"). Whether speaking of secular or religious rituals, participation in them can and often does "work changes" in us. In the second part of the discussion the panel looks more closely, but also quite broadly, at the rituals we know as "ordinances," which are far more clearly designed to invoke God, our highest aspirations, and closeness and intimacy with community, as well as to create, enhance, and preserve shared memory across time and space. Ordinances are powerful also because they are so embodied, so tied to the temporal sphere and limited human form yet strive to reach across and bridge the gap with future events and eternal realms. It's a fascinating subject!

263: Ordinances, Part 1

Joseph Smith

In her very important new book, Revelatory Events: Three Case Studies of the Emergence of New Spiritual Paths, historian and religion scholar Ann Taves offers a naturalistic framing for revelation, in this case extending it to the complex issue of founding figures of a religion or spiritual communities and their close followers believing the sources of the revelations were outside of themselves. In the three case studies Taves examines, Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism, claimed visitations from God and angels, and produced revelations that came in the voice of "the Lord"; Helen Schucman, producer of the Course in Miracles and several supporting works, claimed to be scribe for "the Voice" (believing it to be the voice of Jesus Christ); and Bill Wilson, co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous and his associates, though not claiming the words of the group's Big Book resulted in direct revelation from a specific personality, felt under the inspiration of some Higher Power. Like Smith and Schucman, however, Wilson shared in some circles about an encounter with a Divine source in which he felt "called" to and in that experience also came to believe he would be empowered to "dry up all the drunks in the world." Employing her considerable skills as an historian, with a special emphasis on religion in America, and drawing from research and findings from neuroscience and several cognitive science and social science fields, Taves puts forth a plausible hypothesis about the various mechanisms at play within the minds of the founders of these traditions/paths and their early collaborators that might explain their claims of revelations from suprahuman sources without positing the need for separate spiritual and material worlds, while at the same time not claiming that experiences such as these were/are delusions. It is a fascinating book that mines rich and varied fields and source materials, and introduces these to findings that are emerging in studies of psychology, social psychology, brain science, hypnotism, creativity, organizational emergence, and more. In this four-part episode, neuroscientist and lifelong Mormon Michael Adam Ferguson joins Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon in interviewing and interacting with Ann Taves about her book, its hypotheses, her sense of the promises and limits to the fields of study that she is working in, and her own way of making sense of and honoring revelatory events and the power of religion while she is working and positing explanations within naturalistic frameworks. Part 1 (Ep. 403) primarily introduces the book and its scope, and particularly the stories of and key moments within the founding of Alcoholics Anonymous and the emergence of A Course in Miracles. It also draws a few early comparisons between Joseph Smith and the founders of those spiritual paths. Part 2 (Ep. 404) explores Taves' hypotheses about what is going on within the minds of these founding figures during the times they believe they are in direct communication with suprahuman personalities, as well as during the early periods of their groups' establishment. Part 3 (Ep. 405) features very active discussions of diverse questions and topic areas, ranging from why might a Divine source "reveal" quite different things about the nature of Reality, to the difference between practical and theoretical metaphysics, to the qualities that might lead one to be classified as a "spiritual genius," to group genius, to delusional experiences, and more. Part 4 (Ep. 406) reflects on the probative value of Taves work and the research she cites, as well as directions she hopes to take these things in order to ascertain the scope of their explanatory powers, and then moves into more "pastoral" areas as the panelists assess the value of religious symbolism, praxis, communities, and other gifts of religion and religious systems even if naturalistic arguments, with its claims of a non-dualistic reality, were to win the day.

In her very important new book, Revelatory Events: Three Case Studies of the Emergence of New Spiritual Paths, historian and religion scholar Ann Taves offers a naturalistic framing for revelation, in this case extending it to the complex issue of founding figures of a religion or spiritual communities and their close followers believing the sources of the revelations were outside of themselves. In the three case studies Taves examines, Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism, claimed visitations from God and angels, and produced revelations that came in the voice of "the Lord"; Helen Schucman, producer of the Course in Miracles and several supporting works, claimed to be scribe for "the Voice" (believing it to be the voice of Jesus Christ); and Bill Wilson, co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous and his associates, though not claiming the words of the group's Big Book resulted in direct revelation from a specific personality, felt under the inspiration of some Higher Power. Like Smith and Schucman, however, Wilson shared in some circles about an encounter with a Divine source in which he felt "called" to and in that experience also came to believe he would be empowered to "dry up all the drunks in the world." Employing her considerable skills as an historian, with a special emphasis on religion in America, and drawing from research and findings from neuroscience and several cognitive science and social science fields, Taves puts forth a plausible hypothesis about the various mechanisms at play within the minds of the founders of these traditions/paths and their early collaborators that might explain their claims of revelations from suprahuman sources without positing the need for separate spiritual and material worlds, while at the same time not claiming that experiences such as these were/are delusions. It is a fascinating book that mines rich and varied fields and source materials, and introduces these to findings that are emerging in studies of psychology, social psychology, brain science, hypnotism, creativity, organizational emergence, and more. In this four-part episode, neuroscientist and lifelong Mormon Michael Adam Ferguson joins Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon in interviewing and interacting with Ann Taves about her book, its hypotheses, her sense of the promises and limits to the fields of study that she is working in, and her own way of making sense of and honoring revelatory events and the power of religion while she is working and positing explanations within naturalistic frameworks. Part 1 (Ep. 403) primarily introduces the book and its scope, and particularly the stories of and key moments within the founding of Alcoholics Anonymous and the emergence of A Course in Miracles. It also draws a few early comparisons between Joseph Smith and the founders of those spiritual paths. Part 2 (Ep. 404) explores Taves' hypotheses about what is going on within the minds of these founding figures during the times they believe they are in direct communication with suprahuman personalities, as well as during the early periods of their groups' establishment. Part 3 (Ep. 405) features very active discussions of diverse questions and topic areas, ranging from why might a Divine source "reveal" quite different things about the nature of Reality, to the difference between practical and theoretical metaphysics, to the qualities that might lead one to be classified as a "spiritual genius," to group genius, to delusional experiences, and more. Part 4 (Ep. 406) reflects on the probative value of Taves work and the research she cites, as well as directions she hopes to take these things in order to ascertain the scope of their explanatory powers, and then moves into more "pastoral" areas as the panelists assess the value of religious symbolism, praxis, communities, and other gifts of religion and religious systems even if naturalistic arguments, with its claims of a non-dualistic reality, were to win the day.

403: Revelations of Joseph Smith and Others: A Naturalistic Hypothesis, Part 1

In this Mormon Matters episode, Taylor Petrey and Eric Huntsman join host Dan Wotherspoon to help ground the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John in the political, geographic, linguistic, and religious contexts of their times. What do we know (and not know!) about the authors of these texts, when they wrote, and their intended audiences? How are their gospels organized? Which covers which parts of the story? How are they similar and dissimilar in their portrayals of the texts’ central character, Jesus, known most often now by the term Christ (messiah), as well as regarding various other story details? Finally, how has knowing what they know about the origins of the early church and these texts changed the panelists’ perspectives--even their faith?

267: The Gospels, Part 1

This three-part episode features Kim Puzey and Lisa Scott, two brilliant and insightful people who are deeply familiar with both wilderness living and faith journeying. Drawing on their backgrounds as guides for wilderness experiences (some chosen by participants, while others were offered as options for adjudicated youth who otherwise would have been sent to jail), Kim and Lisa share lessons not only related to survival in wilderness areas and that help us understand the growth and development of most of those participating in these adventures, but also from their own lives as faith explorers, walkers of spiritual and cultural terrain not always visited by the majority of Latter-day Saints. Both are wonderfully articulate and brave in their storytelling about what it's like to be "off the map."  How do "wilderness" and the "wilderness of faith journeys" relate? Quite a bit! We anticipate you'll be captivated by this discussion!

This three-part episode features Kim Puzey and Lisa Scott, two brilliant and insightful people who are deeply familiar with both wilderness living and faith journeying. Drawing on their backgrounds as guides for wilderness experiences (some chosen by participants, while others were offered as options for adjudicated youth who otherwise would have been sent to jail), Kim and Lisa share lessons not only related to survival in wilderness areas and that help us understand the growth and development of most of those participating in these adventures, but also from their own lives as faith explorers, walkers of spiritual and cultural terrain not always visited by the majority of Latter-day Saints. Both are wonderfully articulate and brave in their storytelling about what it's like to be "off the map." How do "wilderness" and the "wilderness of faith journeys" relate? Quite a bit! We anticipate you'll be captivated by this discussion!

407: The Wilderness of Faith

The April 2018 General Conference confirmed a trend that some have noticed in recent years that, as they speak about various policies, practices, and teachings, Church leaders have been using the terms "revelation" and "the will of the Lord" more often than they had in the past century or more. Why might that be? Are instances of powerful revelation occurring more often, or with greater intensity than before--i.e., as some would say, the Lord truly is "hastening His work" and therefore needs to convey things with a greater sense of urgency? Is it simply a trend that has caught on, or merely greater comfort with terms like these that has made Presidents Nelson and Oaks and various apostles use them more often? Are Church leaders expanding their view of what rises to the status of "revelation" versus "inspiration," or what it means to know "the Lord's will" versus having the Spirit "confirm" something to them? And so forth?  It's an interesting observation, and in this episode, frequent guest Mark Crego shares evidence for this trend and poses questions like this, while Mormon Awakenings podcast host Jack Naneek and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon ask for clarifications and react to what he offers. If we are seeing a genuine trend emerging, what good benefits can follow from this sort of increased rhetorical punch? What cautions might we want to become alerted to? And in all things, how might we be vigilant in exercising our own rights to personal revelation and our role as church members in offering a check and balance to those who may be taking cues from this increased usage to warn or try to control others in ways that violate the principles of effective spiritual leadership laid out in D&amp;C 121? Please listen in and then share your ideas on these subjects in the comments section!

The April 2018 General Conference confirmed a trend that some have noticed in recent years that, as they speak about various policies, practices, and teachings, Church leaders have been using the terms "revelation" and "the will of the Lord" more often than they had in the past century or more. Why might that be? Are instances of powerful revelation occurring more often, or with greater intensity than before--i.e., as some would say, the Lord truly is "hastening His work" and therefore needs to convey things with a greater sense of urgency? Is it simply a trend that has caught on, or merely greater comfort with terms like these that has made Presidents Nelson and Oaks and various apostles use them more often? Are Church leaders expanding their view of what rises to the status of "revelation" versus "inspiration," or what it means to know "the Lord's will" versus having the Spirit "confirm" something to them? And so forth? It's an interesting observation, and in this episode, frequent guest Mark Crego shares evidence for this trend and poses questions like this, while Mormon Awakenings podcast host Jack Naneek and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon ask for clarifications and react to what he offers. If we are seeing a genuine trend emerging, what good benefits can follow from this sort of increased rhetorical punch? What cautions might we want to become alerted to? And in all things, how might we be vigilant in exercising our own rights to personal revelation and our role as church members in offering a check and balance to those who may be taking cues from this increased usage to warn or try to control others in ways that violate the principles of effective spiritual leadership laid out in D&amp;C 121? Please listen in and then share your ideas on these subjects in the comments section!

475: "Revelation" and "The Will of the Lord": Changing Rhetoric and Its Effects in Today's Mormonism

This episode features two wonderful and creative thinkers and religious souls whose lives have been deeply influenced by Joseph Smith. But here is the kicker: neither are Latter-day Saints. Jane Barnes and Rob Lauer view Joseph through eyes we don't often (if ever) encounter within institutional Mormonism. Perhaps very few outside some who knew him personally were attracted by what most fascinates and enlivens them.  Jane was the primary writer and researcher for the 2007 PBS/Frontline and Helen Whitney produced documentary film, The Mormons. During her time working on the film, and even earlier, she came to appreciate Joseph as a dynamic, creative, prophetic figure, and she even had a "conversion" experience in which she understood him as a key figure in her awakening to her own spirituality. Ultimately, her experiences led her to write a much-celebrated memoir, Falling in Love with Joseph Smith: My Search for the Real Prophet (Tarcher/Penguin, 2012).  Rob encountered Joseph Smith in his teens, and connected deeply with him in a way that led him to join the church. As he encountered the disconnect between how he saw and encountered Joseph versus how the church and its culture had tamed him and bleached out of him most of the color and life that he had been attracted to, he left Mormonism. He re-joined for a while, even co-directing the Hill Cumorah pageant for seven years, before he felt Joseph's teachings led him out of the church again—but not because he didn't embrace them any longer but because they empowered him to see his being gay as an essential part of his deep spiritual identity, while also seeing that the church wasn't capable of sustaining him as a gay man. To this day, however, he still says his is a religion "of" Joseph Smith (meaning he believes his key and empowering insights about humans, gods, and life's highest call).  Interestingly, both Jane and Rob encountered Joseph Smith first through Fawn Brodie's book, No One Knows My History, which is generally thought by members as anti-Mormon. For them, however, they found a powerful figure on a unique journey, with gifts and creativity, that became a catalyst for their own spiritual walks.  Notice as you listen to this episode how taking a fresh look at Joseph from outside the "boxes" we in the church so often put him in and want to limit him to can allow us to see him in much more vibrant detail. As writers and artists (novelist/filmmaker and playwright/television producer/newspaper editor), they see Joseph as bold and imaginative as well as good and kind, but also as broken and full of contradictions, many of them that are very unappealing. Still, they see him as a "prophet" in the larger sense of the word rather than the limited view we in the church have cultivated as we have  idealized the term, turned the title into a "president" of an institution, and shied away from representing him in all his humanness. It's this very humanness that leads them to love and appreciate him in ways that feel, at least to me, to be much more powerful than the level of encounter of most Latter-day Saints.

This episode features two wonderful and creative thinkers and religious souls whose lives have been deeply influenced by Joseph Smith. But here is the kicker: neither are Latter-day Saints. Jane Barnes and Rob Lauer view Joseph through eyes we don't often (if ever) encounter within institutional Mormonism. Perhaps very few outside some who knew him personally were attracted by what most fascinates and enlivens them. Jane was the primary writer and researcher for the 2007 PBS/Frontline and Helen Whitney produced documentary film, The Mormons. During her time working on the film, and even earlier, she came to appreciate Joseph as a dynamic, creative, prophetic figure, and she even had a "conversion" experience in which she understood him as a key figure in her awakening to her own spirituality. Ultimately, her experiences led her to write a much-celebrated memoir, Falling in Love with Joseph Smith: My Search for the Real Prophet (Tarcher/Penguin, 2012). Rob encountered Joseph Smith in his teens, and connected deeply with him in a way that led him to join the church. As he encountered the disconnect between how he saw and encountered Joseph versus how the church and its culture had tamed him and bleached out of him most of the color and life that he had been attracted to, he left Mormonism. He re-joined for a while, even co-directing the Hill Cumorah pageant for seven years, before he felt Joseph's teachings led him out of the church again—but not because he didn't embrace them any longer but because they empowered him to see his being gay as an essential part of his deep spiritual identity, while also seeing that the church wasn't capable of sustaining him as a gay man. To this day, however, he still says his is a religion "of" Joseph Smith (meaning he believes his key and empowering insights about humans, gods, and life's highest call). Interestingly, both Jane and Rob encountered Joseph Smith first through Fawn Brodie's book, No One Knows My History, which is generally thought by members as anti-Mormon. For them, however, they found a powerful figure on a unique journey, with gifts and creativity, that became a catalyst for their own spiritual walks. Notice as you listen to this episode how taking a fresh look at Joseph from outside the "boxes" we in the church so often put him in and want to limit him to can allow us to see him in much more vibrant detail. As writers and artists (novelist/filmmaker and playwright/television producer/newspaper editor), they see Joseph as bold and imaginative as well as good and kind, but also as broken and full of contradictions, many of them that are very unappealing. Still, they see him as a "prophet" in the larger sense of the word rather than the limited view we in the church have cultivated as we have  idealized the term, turned the title into a "president" of an institution, and shied away from representing him in all his humanness. It's this very humanness that leads them to love and appreciate him in ways that feel, at least to me, to be much more powerful than the level of encounter of most Latter-day Saints.

518: Looking at Joseph Smith through Fresh Eyes

Fiona Givens' and Terryl Givens' most recent book, The Christ Who Heals: How God Restored the Truth That Saves Us, is remarkable. But it’s not because very many of the ideas they present are unheard of, undiscussed, or absolutely foreign to Latter-day Saints. Instead, the triumph of this book is in its distillation from many ancient and modern sources of a vision of Christ and the other members of the Godhead (Heavenly Mother and the extended Divine Council) that is gorgeous, ennobling of humankind, empowering for us in this earthly sphere, and reveals Gods who are in solidarity with us in our pains and suffering and whose only project (“work and glory”) is to patiently teach us, model for us the scope of a truly abundant type of life, and help us discern what is keeping us from seeing, understanding, and choosing steps that will help us move forward toward it. The ideas and vision that is in this book is my (host Dan Wotherspoon) favorite depiction of the Plan of Salvation (Happiness) and Christ’s Atoning work. In engenders deeper love within me for my Heavenly Parents, Savior/Healer, and Holy Companion/Paraclete/Comforter and all beings who are venturing along a Godward path—which, ultimately, is or will be everyone (with only very few exceptions). And this is so, especially as we see in it that at every step we are collaborators with the Gods in their project. And even if the depictions of Gods’ work and glory in this book aren’t exactly on the nose, or even if the whole Christian drama is purely a mythic presentation that fails to correspond with anything in the eternal realm, this vision of the Gods and Heavens are ones that I hope are true.  Yet even if not, I am inspired in wonderful ways to want to deepen my relationship with my fellow human beings and to immerse myself even more deeply into the energies I’ve felt as I have tasted experiences that seem far deeper to me than anything my senses could generate or brain could present to me. I hope you’ll listen to this podcast and consider Christ anew—or if not exactly anew as much here will be familiar to you, at least to consider what it means in your life to sense the presence at every step of a loving God, who even if you feel alone in your struggles and pain, is with you every step, and sees you and all that is blocking you from a fuller understanding. Imagine what it would be like to be “healed”!

Fiona Givens' and Terryl Givens' most recent book, The Christ Who Heals: How God Restored the Truth That Saves Us, is remarkable. But it’s not because very many of the ideas they present are unheard of, undiscussed, or absolutely foreign to Latter-day Saints. Instead, the triumph of this book is in its distillation from many ancient and modern sources of a vision of Christ and the other members of the Godhead (Heavenly Mother and the extended Divine Council) that is gorgeous, ennobling of humankind, empowering for us in this earthly sphere, and reveals Gods who are in solidarity with us in our pains and suffering and whose only project (“work and glory”) is to patiently teach us, model for us the scope of a truly abundant type of life, and help us discern what is keeping us from seeing, understanding, and choosing steps that will help us move forward toward it. The ideas and vision that is in this book is my (host Dan Wotherspoon) favorite depiction of the Plan of Salvation (Happiness) and Christ’s Atoning work. In engenders deeper love within me for my Heavenly Parents, Savior/Healer, and Holy Companion/Paraclete/Comforter and all beings who are venturing along a Godward path—which, ultimately, is or will be everyone (with only very few exceptions). And this is so, especially as we see in it that at every step we are collaborators with the Gods in their project. And even if the depictions of Gods’ work and glory in this book aren’t exactly on the nose, or even if the whole Christian drama is purely a mythic presentation that fails to correspond with anything in the eternal realm, this vision of the Gods and Heavens are ones that I hope are true.  Yet even if not, I am inspired in wonderful ways to want to deepen my relationship with my fellow human beings and to immerse myself even more deeply into the energies I’ve felt as I have tasted experiences that seem far deeper to me than anything my senses could generate or brain could present to me. I hope you’ll listen to this podcast and consider Christ anew—or if not exactly anew as much here will be familiar to you, at least to consider what it means in your life to sense the presence at every step of a loving God, who even if you feel alone in your struggles and pain, is with you every step, and sees you and all that is blocking you from a fuller understanding. Imagine what it would be like to be “healed”!

428: Restoring a Lost Jesus and Beautiful Vision of God’s Work and Glory, Part 1

Ever feel worn down, your spiritual life lagging, feeling like all you are doing is going through the motions, and church engagement is feeling more like "gospel grind" than blessing? When we find ourselves in one of these moments--perhaps days, months, years!--what might we do to recover a little of that energy and sense of joy we remember? In this episode, Jana Riess and Mark De St. Aubin join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a discussion of insights into the phenomenon of "gospel burn-out," various framings for acknowledging it and making our way through the doldrums and into deeper connection and spiritual awareness. Have you ever considered burn-out a blessing? Find out why these panelists frame it that way!

262: Gospel Burn-Out

On 25 August, the Church announced a new plan for Relief Society and Priesthood meetings to begin January 2018. Instead of focusing two weeks each month on lessons drawn from a teachings of the prophets manual (this year studying President Gordon B. Hinckley), those two weeks will focus on recent conference addresses, but will allow each individual Relief Society or quorum to choose which ones to focus on. The first week of the month will now emphasize counseling together about local issues and needs. And the fourth week will take on a topic outlined by the general church leadership, with the November and May issues of the Liahona and Ensign alerting us to those topics and providing guides and ideas for studying them.  This episode gathers three wonderful church watchers to talk together about this new plan. Stephen Carter, Cynthia Winward, and Walt Wood join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon to discuss how each of these elements of the new plan might unfold. What do they think are the best features? What are their hopes and dreams for those? What drawbacks do they foresee, and how might we mitigate against them?  In the second half, Stephen lays out two different models for church teaching--one that we usually default to in our gatherings together, which he calls the "hermetic" model; the other, which only occasionally rises up but which he hopes can become much more the norm, that he calls the "exploratory" model. The whole panel then reacts to this new ideal and shares ways they can see those of us in the internet Mormon world aiding in its coming into being.

On 25 August, the Church announced a new plan for Relief Society and Priesthood meetings to begin January 2018. Instead of focusing two weeks each month on lessons drawn from a teachings of the prophets manual (this year studying President Gordon B. Hinckley), those two weeks will focus on recent conference addresses, but will allow each individual Relief Society or quorum to choose which ones to focus on. The first week of the month will now emphasize counseling together about local issues and needs. And the fourth week will take on a topic outlined by the general church leadership, with the November and May issues of the Liahona and Ensign alerting us to those topics and providing guides and ideas for studying them. This episode gathers three wonderful church watchers to talk together about this new plan. Stephen Carter, Cynthia Winward, and Walt Wood join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon to discuss how each of these elements of the new plan might unfold. What do they think are the best features? What are their hopes and dreams for those? What drawbacks do they foresee, and how might we mitigate against them? In the second half, Stephen lays out two different models for church teaching--one that we usually default to in our gatherings together, which he calls the "hermetic" model; the other, which only occasionally rises up but which he hopes can become much more the norm, that he calls the "exploratory" model. The whole panel then reacts to this new ideal and shares ways they can see those of us in the internet Mormon world aiding in its coming into being.

413: The New Plan for Relief Society and Adult Priesthood Meetings

In the three months since the Church announced its new policy regarding LGBT persons and their children, we seem to increasingly encounter talk among LDS leaders and members that seems integrally tied to aspects of Christian and Mormon thinking about the Apocalyse: the end times prophesized to be proceeded by great calamities as well as the choosing of sides, a separation of the sheep from the goats, a time when even the very elect can be deceived, a time of judgment against the wicked and triumph for the for the good. Does the continued (or increased) presence of rhetoric associated with the "end times" help explain how the new policy might have found such a clear path into LDS policy, as well as how easily it has been accepted by many within the fold who don’t understand the need for it themselves but choose not to speak up about it as much as they might otherwise? How is the notion of a looming Apocalypse affecting the way certain messaging around LGBT (and other) controversial issues are framed? Is it aiding in the creation of a stronger notion of in- and out-groups, LDS "identity," and other forms of boundary maintenance? Is this a new phenomenon, or simply a continuation of ways other controversial and seemingly challenging issues have been talked about in the past? If we so desire, how might we counter the effects of such thinking in today’s Mormonism? In this episode, all these issues (and more!) are discussed in lively ways by Mark Crego, Jason Nelson Seawright, and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon.

322: How Does Apocalyptic Thinking Factor into the Recent LGBT Policy Change and Reactions to It?

Terryl Givens

On 7 March 2015, Terryl Givens gave a wonderful lecture and was interview at the Rockwell Museum in Corning, New York. The occasion was a Mormon History Association satellite event in which Givens was asked to speak on "An American Journey across the Landscape of Mormon Theology." Since MHA does not have a podcast, and this is definitely a lecture and interview worth receiving a wide hearing, they asked Mormon Matters and A Thoughtful Faith podcasts to co-release the audio. A full video of the evening, including an additional 27 minutes of introductory material will soon be available to view. Stay tuned here for a link when it becomes available. In his lecture, Givens roots Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon in the various milieus of his time, both culturally and theologically. His special focus in on the current notions of Christianity’s "covenant theology" at play during his time, and how Smith re-imagined it--not always consciously but eventually coming to understand that aspect of his work. Ultimately Givens places Mormonism squarely in the Christian camp but prior to the time of the formative councils in which the ideas of the church fathers Origin and Pelagius were rejected and Christianity took the forms it did. In Givens’ hands, Mormon theology takes a path that emphasizes human beings as expansive, co-eternal with God, which naturally shapes their "covenantal" relationship with God in ways quite different than mainstream Christianity.

292: The Landscape of Mormon Theology: Terryl Givens at the Rockwell Museum

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