“A river of material flows through us. When we share our works and our ideas, they are replenished. If we block the flow by holding them all inside, the river cannot run and new ideas are slow to appear. In the abundant mindset, the river never runs dry. Ideas are always coming through. And an artist is free to release them with the faith that more will arrive. If we live in a mindset of scarcity, we hoard great ideas.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In true Made You Think fashion, our 100th episode is full of tangents. This week, we read The Creative Act by Rick Rubin which emphasizes the importance of being genuine and vulnerable in the creative process, showing that your own struggles and authenticity can result in meaningful and powerful creative work.  We cover a wide range of topics including:  Giving life to the ideas in your imagination Publishing cadences of different successful book series Rick Rubin's backstory in the music industry How media's incentives have shifted from accuracy to clicks Tactics to unblock your creativity  And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show:   Great Books Series (0:43) Nat’s Notes podcast (1:03) How to draw an owl (13:32) Hose (19:52) Elden Ring (26:58) Dark Winds (28:35) Eric Weinstein on Kayfabe (38:22) Nightcrawler (44:36)  Books Mentioned:  The Creative Act Count Down (11:35) (Nat's Book Notes) East of Eden (12:08) (Nat's Book Notes) A Game of Thrones (26:07) Red Rising Series (32:54)  50th Law (40:33) (Nat's Book Notes) Trust Me, I’m Lying (41:44) The River of Doubt (1:01:51) (Book Episode)  People Mentioned:  Rick Rubin (4:51) Phil Jackson (5:10) Steve Jobs (5:19) Neil Strauss (6:36) Johnny Cash (18:08)  Joaquin Phoenix (23:17) George R. R. Martin (26:01) Isaac Asimov (31:11)  Show Topics: (0:00) Welcome to Episode 100- We want to say a big thank you to all of our listeners! Whether you were around for our first episode in 2017 or joined us sometime afterwards, we appreciate you listening to our show. (1:01) Nat talks about how he manages his current content schedule from articles and newsletters to podcasts and short form videos.  (4:48) Today, we’re discussing The Creative Act. Think of it as a 'mindset' book rather than a tactical book, and how you can go into reading this book to get the most value out of it. (9:15) This is a great book to read early in your career as it addresses common mental roadblocks you may face within the creative process. Oftentimes, what you output may not be the same as what you initially planned in your mind, but that doesn't make it any less valuable. (14:10) Getting out of your own way is a large part of creativity. The importance of mixing it up and giving attention to even the most simplistic ideas you may have. (19:35) We share a little bit about Rick Rubin’s backstory and how he came to work with so many famous musicians. As the founder of Def Jam, he has worked with several talented musical acts including Johnny Cash, the Beastie Boys, Run-DMC, and more. (23:43) Why you should keep the scope of your work smaller, and how that helps you to recognize your work as a moment in time rather than something that has to define you forever.  (29:06) How book and TV series often rely on the momentum from their viewers and readers for the continued success of their future releases, though that momentum can be difficult to drum up.  (32:51) Some authors take long breaks between each of their books while others churn them out right after another. It goes to show that the creative process looks different for everybody. (36:17) A lot of the news outlets serve the purpose of entertaining rather than informing. When compared to WWE, it's something that we know is a sham or is fabricated, but it's still amusing to watch. (42:52) Dangerous positive feedback loops between the media, people seeking their names in the news, and those consuming it. Media’s incentives aren’t necessarily to get things right but to get more clicks and views.  (49:29) Despite some leadership issues within the past decade in America, we've stayed afloat. How long can we stay this way? (56:02) The power of the US dollar and inflation rates in the US vs. other countries.  (59:54) That wraps up this episode. Thanks again to our listeners for hitting the 100th episode milestone with us! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“A river of material flows through us. When we share our works and our ideas, they are replenished. If we block the flow by holding them all inside, the river cannot run and new ideas are slow to appear. In the abundant mindset, the river never runs dry. Ideas are always coming through. And an artist is free to release them with the faith that more will arrive. If we live in a mindset of scarcity, we hoard great ideas.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In true Made You Think fashion, our 100th episode is full of tangents. This week, we read The Creative Act by Rick Rubin which emphasizes the importance of being genuine and vulnerable in the creative process, showing that your own struggles and authenticity can result in meaningful and powerful creative work.  We cover a wide range of topics including: <ul> <li>Giving life to the ideas in your imagination</li> <li>Publishing cadences of different successful book series</li> <li>Rick Rubin's backstory in the music industry</li> <li>How media's incentives have shifted from accuracy to clicks</li> <li>Tactics to unblock your creativity</li> </ul> And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil</a>, and <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Adil</a> on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show: <ul> <li><a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZWA_9v8ZouHYdcatG4ETjokV5N97-VXAPj16EZ2WIX4/edit?pli=1#gid=0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Great Books Series</a> (0:43)</li> <li><a href="https://www.natsnotes.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes podcast</a> (1:03)</li> <li><a href="https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/572078-how-to-draw-an-owl" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">How to draw an owl</a> (13:32)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hose_(band)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Hose</a> (19:52)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elden_Ring" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Elden Ring</a> (26:58)</li> <li><a href="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15017118/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Dark Winds</a> (28:35)</li> <li><a href="https://www.edge.org/response-detail/11783" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Eric Weinstein on Kayfabe</a> (38:22)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightcrawler_(film)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nightcrawler</a> (44:36)</li> </ul> Books Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3Qyiybz" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Creative Act</a></li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3s7HMn1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Count Down</a> (11:35) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/count-down" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3QzelVc" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">East of Eden</a> (12:08) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/east-eden-john-steinbeck" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3DQEPd8" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">A Game of Thrones</a> (26:07)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/445F7rf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Red Rising Series</a> (32:54) </li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3qoIwUk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">50th Law</a> (40:33) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/50th-law-robert-greene" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3KBd9wK" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Trust Me, I’m Lying</a> (41:44)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/45h8UOC" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The River of Doubt</a> (1:01:51) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/the-river-of-doubt/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Book Episode</a>)</li> </ul> People Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Rubin" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Rick Rubin</a> (4:51)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Jackson" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Phil Jackson</a> (5:10)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Steve Jobs</a> (5:19)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Strauss" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil Strauss</a> (6:36)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Cash" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Johnny Cash</a> (18:08)</li> <li><a href="https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001618/bio/#:~:text=As%20a%20youngster%2C%20Joaquin%20took,followed%20their%20lead%20into%20acting." rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Joaquin Phoenix</a> (23:17)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_R._R._Martin" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">George R. R. Martin</a> (26:01)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Asimov" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Isaac Asimov</a> (31:11)</li> </ul> Show Topics: (0:00) Welcome to Episode 100- We want to say a big thank you to all of our listeners! Whether you were around for our first episode in 2017 or joined us sometime afterwards, we appreciate you listening to our show. (1:01) Nat talks about how he manages his current content schedule from articles and newsletters to podcasts and short form videos.  (4:48) Today, we’re discussing The Creative Act. Think of it as a 'mindset' book rather than a tactical book, and how you can go into reading this book to get the most value out of it. (9:15) This is a great book to read early in your career as it addresses common mental roadblocks you may face within the creative process. Oftentimes, what you output may not be the same as what you initially planned in your mind, but that doesn't make it any less valuable. (14:10) Getting out of your own way is a large part of creativity. The importance of mixing it up and giving attention to even the most simplistic ideas you may have. (19:35) We share a little bit about Rick Rubin’s backstory and how he came to work with so many famous musicians. As the founder of Def Jam, he has worked with several talented musical acts including Johnny Cash, the Beastie Boys, Run-DMC, and more. (23:43) Why you should keep the scope of your work smaller, and how that helps you to recognize your work as a moment in time rather than something that has to define you forever.  (29:06) How book and TV series often rely on the momentum from their viewers and readers for the continued success of their future releases, though that momentum can be difficult to drum up.  (32:51) Some authors take long breaks between each of their books while others churn them out right after another. It goes to show that the creative process looks different for everybody. (36:17) A lot of the news outlets serve the purpose of entertaining rather than informing. When compared to WWE, it's something that we know is a sham or is fabricated, but it's still amusing to watch. (42:52) Dangerous positive feedback loops between the media, people seeking their names in the news, and those consuming it. Media’s incentives aren’t necessarily to get things right but to get more clicks and views.  (49:29) Despite some leadership issues within the past decade in America, we've stayed afloat. How long can we stay this way? (56:02) The power of the US dollar and inflation rates in the US vs. other countries.  (59:54) That wraps up this episode. Thanks again to our listeners for hitting the 100th episode milestone with us! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@TheRealNeilS</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@adilmajid</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@nateliason</a> and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

100: The Creative Act (Kinda)

“The ordinary traveler, who never goes off the beaten route and who on this beaten route is carried by others, without himself doing anything or risking anything, does not need to show much more initiative and intelligence than an express package." Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're discussing The River of Doubt by Candace Millard, a story that follows the expedition of Theodore Roosevelt as he explores the Amazon river in Brazil. Though faced with many hardships along the way, Roosevelt finds purpose in this monumental journey after losing the 1912 election. We cover a wide range of topics including:  The explorer spirit and the drive to explore the unknown Theories of how long humans have been in the Americas How the crew was able to form relationships with uncontacted tribes The progression of travel methods in comparison to the early 1900s What were in the cards for Roosevelt and Rondon after they returned  And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show:   The Amazon Rainforest may have been shaped by humans (22:35)  Reliving Shackleton’s Epic Endurance Expedition (27:41)  Kayaking from California to Hawaii (29:00)  Joe Rogan with Dan Flores (31:19)  Affirmative Action ruling (36:42) 14 Peaks (52:32) The Alpinist (55:34) Meru (56:40) Candiru fish (1:02:27) Concorde's New York to London flight (1:17:44) United goes Supersonic (1:19:05) Adventure Capitalist (1:21:04)  Books Mentioned:   The River of Doubt The Comfort Crisis (6:26)  Coyote America (31:22)  What Your Food Ate (32:57)  The Creative Act (1:19:47)  People Mentioned:  Cândido Rondon (13:54) Graham Hancock (25:48) Dan Flores (31:20) Jimmy Chin (58:03) Henry Hudson (1:12:34)  Show Topics: (1:09) In this episode, we're talking about The River of Doubt. After losing the 1912 election, Roosevelt traveled to Brazil to explore the Amazon river, which was largely unknown at that time.  (4:17) The explorer spirit and the urge to explore something that people haven't seen before. While there's not much else for us to discover for the first time on earth, there are still many unique things to go see that only few have. (8:52) Roosevelt and the crew seemed to underestimate what they were getting into, and though underprepared, it ended up being an overall success.  (14:21) We talk a bit more about Rondon and his backstory, as well as what life looked like for him after the expedition. He had contact with tribes that were otherwise cut off from the rest of the world.  (18:26) The relationships with the tribes they came across and how the tribe leaders had to mutually agree before a course of action was taken on Roosevelt's crew. At the time, it was not known that the tribe they had contacted were cannabalists.  (22:37) There's a theory that the Amazon is man-made or at least man-influenced. While there’s evidence of humans in the Amazon from at least 13,000 years ago, how long have humans really been in the Americas?  (27:50) Seafaring canoes and the possibility of natives reaching new land via canoe tens of thousands of years ago. It's also a mystery how many journeys have failed throughout time, as there is likely no record of their expedition at all. (31:29) The drive to explore is in our DNA. Do we feel that need for evolutionary purposes?  (37:40) We talk about the description of the surgery on Roosevelt’s leg during the journey and the backstory behind it. (42:07) Sickness and the prevalence of malaria during the trip. We give some stats on the fatalities of malaria, and the lethality is less than we expected.  (44:19) Roosevelt brought his son, Kermit. Though Kermit didn’t want to go, he went so he can watch out for his dad. Back in this time, going on a trip for months or even years meant you wouldn't have any contact with people back home for that whole span. (48:55) Stories of Roosevelt when he was visited by ambassadors in the White House, and other humorous presidential stories.  (52:32) There have been several amazing stories and documentaries describing the journies of different adventurists and mountain climbers. It goes to show just how important pacing yourself is and knowing how to pack the appropriate supplies.  (1:00:51) Why the crew hardly saw any wild life during their time in the Amazon. Though you're surrounded by them, they're extremely hidden. (1:05:58) Rondon's leadership along the way and how he managed to keep order, despite one of the crew members causing trouble.  (1:14:19) When we think about Roosevelt's journey and compare it to today, we see how far we've come. We can now reach the other side of the world at much quicker speeds and have the potential of seeing more growth in this area during our lifetime, too.  (1:19:53) Stay tuned for our next episode... Episode 100 of Made You Think! What has been your favorite episode so far? Let us know! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“The ordinary traveler, who never goes off the beaten route and who on this beaten route is carried by others, without himself doing anything or risking anything, does not need to show much more initiative and intelligence than an express package." Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're discussing The River of Doubt by Candace Millard, a story that follows the expedition of Theodore Roosevelt as he explores the Amazon river in Brazil. Though faced with many hardships along the way, Roosevelt finds purpose in this monumental journey after losing the 1912 election. We cover a wide range of topics including: <ul> <li>The explorer spirit and the drive to explore the unknown</li> <li>Theories of how long humans have been in the Americas</li> <li>How the crew was able to form relationships with uncontacted tribes</li> <li>The progression of travel methods in comparison to the early 1900s</li> <li>What were in the cards for Roosevelt and Rondon after they returned</li> </ul> And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil</a>, and <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Adil</a> on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/pristine-untouched-amazonian-rainforest-was-actually-shaped-humans-180962378/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Amazon Rainforest may have been shaped by humans</a> (22:35)</li> <li><a href="https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/reliving-shackletons-epic-endurance-expedition-102707360/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Reliving Shackleton’s Epic Endurance Expedition</a> (27:41)</li> <li><a href="https://www.mensjournal.com/adventure/the-man-who-kayaked-from-california-to-hawaii-mens-journal" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Kayaking from California to Hawaii</a> (29:00) </li> <li><a href="https://www.jrepodcast.com/guest/dan-flores/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Joe Rogan with Dan Flores</a> (31:19)</li> <li><a href="https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-affirmative-action-college-race-f83d6318017ec9b9029b12ee2256e744" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Affirmative Action ruling</a> (36:42)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14_Peaks:_Nothing_Is_Impossible" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">14 Peaks</a> (52:32)</li> <li><a href="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11790780/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Alpinist</a> (55:34)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meru_(film)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Meru</a> (56:40)</li> <li><a href="https://futurism.com/fact-or-fiction-the-urethra-invading-fish" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Candiru fish</a> (1:02:27)</li> <li><a href="https://simpleflying.com/concorde-new-york-to-london-time/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Concorde's New York to London flight</a> (1:17:44)</li> <li><a href="https://Boomsupersonic.com/united" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">United goes Supersonic</a> (1:19:05)</li> <li><a href="https://www.adventurecapitalist.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Adventure Capitalist</a> (1:21:04)</li> </ul> Books Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/River-Doubt-Theodore-Roosevelts-Darkest/dp/0767913736/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&amp;qid=1689265181&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The River of Doubt</a></li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3IdA1lp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Comfort Crisis</a> (6:26)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Coyote-America-Natural-Supernatural-History/dp/0465093728/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1AOUEYMPYJJF6&amp;keywords=Coyote+America&amp;qid=1689265269&amp;sprefix=coyote+america%2Caps%2C130&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Coyote America</a> (31:22)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/What-Your-Food-Ate-Restore/dp/1324052104/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&amp;qid=1689265304&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> What Your Food Ate</a> (32:57)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Act-Way-Being/dp/0593652886/ref=sr_1_1?crid=25OLOTL3M4GSG&amp;keywords=The+Creative+Act&amp;qid=1689265325&amp;sprefix=the+creative+act%2Caps%2C134&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Creative Act</a> (1:19:47)</li> </ul> People Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%A2ndido_Rondon" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Cândido Rondon</a> (13:54)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hancock" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Graham Hancock</a> (25:48)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Flores" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Dan Flores</a> (31:20)</li> <li><a href="https://jimmychin.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Jimmy Chin</a> (58:03)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Hudson" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Henry Hudson</a> (1:12:34)</li> </ul> Show Topics: (1:09) In this episode, we're talking about The River of Doubt. After losing the 1912 election, Roosevelt traveled to Brazil to explore the Amazon river, which was largely unknown at that time.  (4:17) The explorer spirit and the urge to explore something that people haven't seen before. While there's not much else for us to discover for the first time on earth, there are still many unique things to go see that only few have. (8:52) Roosevelt and the crew seemed to underestimate what they were getting into, and though underprepared, it ended up being an overall success.  (14:21) We talk a bit more about Rondon and his backstory, as well as what life looked like for him after the expedition. He had contact with tribes that were otherwise cut off from the rest of the world.  (18:26) The relationships with the tribes they came across and how the tribe leaders had to mutually agree before a course of action was taken on Roosevelt's crew. At the time, it was not known that the tribe they had contacted were cannabalists.  (22:37) There's a theory that the Amazon is man-made or at least man-influenced. While there’s evidence of humans in the Amazon from at least 13,000 years ago, how long have humans really been in the Americas?  (27:50) Seafaring canoes and the possibility of natives reaching new land via canoe tens of thousands of years ago. It's also a mystery how many journeys have failed throughout time, as there is likely no record of their expedition at all. (31:29) The drive to explore is in our DNA. Do we feel that need for evolutionary purposes?  (37:40) We talk about the description of the surgery on Roosevelt’s leg during the journey and the backstory behind it. (42:07) Sickness and the prevalence of malaria during the trip. We give some stats on the fatalities of malaria, and the lethality is less than we expected.  (44:19) Roosevelt brought his son, Kermit. Though Kermit didn’t want to go, he went so he can watch out for his dad. Back in this time, going on a trip for months or even years meant you wouldn't have any contact with people back home for that whole span. (48:55) Stories of Roosevelt when he was visited by ambassadors in the White House, and other humorous presidential stories.  (52:32) There have been several amazing stories and documentaries describing the journies of different adventurists and mountain climbers. It goes to show just how important pacing yourself is and knowing how to pack the appropriate supplies.  (1:00:51) Why the crew hardly saw any wild life during their time in the Amazon. Though you're surrounded by them, they're extremely hidden. (1:05:58) Rondon's leadership along the way and how he managed to keep order, despite one of the crew members causing trouble.  (1:14:19) When we think about Roosevelt's journey and compare it to today, we see how far we've come. We can now reach the other side of the world at much quicker speeds and have the potential of seeing more growth in this area during our lifetime, too.  (1:19:53) Stay tuned for our next episode... Episode 100 of Made You Think! What has been your favorite episode so far? Let us know! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@TheRealNeilS</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@adilmajid</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@nateliason</a> and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

99: Roosevelt’s Last Adventure: The River of Doubt

“Across the board, dietary advice typically focuses on what and how much to eat, with remarkably little attention paid to how farming practices influence the nutritional quality of food and whether the “right foods” pack the nutrients they once had.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're discussing What Your Food Ate by David R. Montgomery and Anne Biklé. Exploring the concept of "food chain reactions," the book unveils the hidden connections between our food choices and their environmental, social, and health impacts. Do you really know what you're eating? We cover a wide range of topics including:  The revival of physical bookstores fueled by social media How the health of our soil essentially corresponds to our health Why nutritional diversity is so important The relationship between our diets and overall well-being What are our food cravings telling us?  And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show:  Great Book Series (1:04)   Barnes and Noble open 30 new stores (2:55)  Reality Has a Surprising Amount of Detail (19:17) Mother Tongue Cooking Club (33:04) Force of Nature (57:55) Pluck (58:19) TrueMed (59:57) Rooted (1:09:26) Dutch Meadows Farm  Books Mentioned:   What Your Food Ate  The Three-Body Problem (5:00) (Nat's Book Notes)  Dirt: The Erosion of Civilizations (14:59)  People Mentioned:  Anthony Gustin (15:40) Wendell Berry (15:48) Ben Greenfield (26:57) Justin Mares (28:21) Miles Snyder (33:01) Calley Means (1:01:34) Gabe Brown (1:04:24)  Show Topics: (1:35) The revival of Barnes and Noble along with the influence that 'Booktok' has had on physical book stores. (5:11) How different content performs on Instagram, TikTok, and Youtube. Each platform serves a different purpose whether it's for entertainment or educational.  (12:16) Today, we’re discussing What Your Food Ate by David R. Montgomery and Anne Biklé! Our food is a lot less nutritionally dense than we realize because of way that the food we eat is grown. (14:55) The co-authors' first book talks about the importance of caring for the soil, as that's the base for everything we grow. The same food can have such different nutritional values depending on how it was grown or raised. (20:08) Why nutritional diversity is important and how eating as nutrient dense foods as possible is really important too. When it comes to food, it's best to aim for quality over quantity.  (26:13) When we take a look at the foods we're eating, it makes sense that we may need supplements to give us our essential nutrients that may be otherwise lacking in our diet.  (28:01) What does Europe do differently than the US in terms of growing their food? We also talk about glyphosate levels in the things that we eat. (33:35) We give a brief overview of how the government has subsidized farmers in the US, which plays a role in our food supply and what we eat.  (38:44) Do our food cravings hint to us what we are deficient in? There have been studies done in infants where they chose foods that were beneficial to them when they were sick.  (40:33) It's shown that diet makes a difference in your overall health. Examples: The British WW2 diet and how a study in Japan showed that diet made a difference in mortality rate for those with lung cancer.  (44:45) How we source our food plays a role in our overall health. The nutritional density of the same food can vary just based on how it was raised. (50:39) We share some of our current eating habits from kimchi to sauerkraut, and what we will be having less of. (53:20) So, what solutions do we have and are we trending in the right direction when it comes to the food industry? (59:29) Regenerative farming - can this be seen on a larger scale? Neil talks about the mission of TrueMed. (1:06:28) Nutrients in animals have changed over time due to their diet and breeding, and it has an effect on the nutrients we receive from them, too. (1:10:53) That concludes this episode! Catch us next time where we will be discussing  The River of Doubt. As episode 100 approaches us, we're excited to hear your suggestions on what we should do for that episode! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“Across the board, dietary advice typically focuses on what and how much to eat, with remarkably little attention paid to how farming practices influence the nutritional quality of food and whether the “right foods” pack the nutrients they once had.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're discussing What Your Food Ate by David R. Montgomery and Anne Biklé. Exploring the concept of "food chain reactions," the book unveils the hidden connections between our food choices and their environmental, social, and health impacts. Do you really know what you're eating? We cover a wide range of topics including: <ul> <li>The revival of physical bookstores fueled by social media</li> <li>How the health of our soil essentially corresponds to our health</li> <li>Why nutritional diversity is so important</li> <li>The relationship between our diets and overall well-being</li> <li>What are our food cravings telling us?</li> </ul> And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil</a>, and <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Adil</a> on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show: <ul> <li><a href="https://blog.nateliason.com/p/great-books" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Great Book Series</a> (1:04) </li> <li><a href="https://www.rd.com/article/is-barnes-and-noble-going-out-of-business/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Barnes and Noble open 30 new store</a>s (2:55)</li> <li><a href="http://johnsalvatier.org/blog/2017/reality-has-a-surprising-amount-of-detail" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Reality Has a Surprising Amount of Detail</a> (19:17)</li> <li><a href="https://mtcookingclub.substack.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Mother Tongue Cooking Club</a> (33:04)</li> <li><a href="https://forceofnature.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Force of Nature</a> (57:55)</li> <li><a href="https://eatpluck.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pluck</a> (58:19)</li> <li><a href="https://www.truemed.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">TrueMed</a> (59:57)</li> <li><a href="https://rootedlocalmeats.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Rooted</a> (1:09:26)</li> <li><a href="https://dutchmeadowsfarm.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Dutch Meadows Farm</a></li> </ul> Books Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/What-Your-Food-Ate-Restore/dp/1324052104/ref=sr_1_1?crid=186ICSSUDYLAO&amp;keywords=what+your+food+ate&amp;qid=1686250017&amp;sprefix=what+your+food+ate%2Caps%2C140&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> What Your Food Ate</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/The-Three-Body-Problem/dp/B00P00QPPY/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=The+Three+Body+Problem&amp;qid=1582260595&amp;s=books&amp;sr=1-1?tag=natsite-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Three-Body Problem</a> (5:00) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/the-three-body-problem-cixin-liu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Dirt-Civilizations-David-R-Montgomery/dp/0520272900/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&amp;qid=1686250064&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Dirt: The Erosion of Civilizations</a> (14:59)</li> </ul> People Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://dranthonygustin.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Anthony Gustin</a> (15:40)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendell_Berry" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Wendell Berry</a> (15:48)</li> <li><a href="https://bengreenfieldlife.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ben Greenfield</a> (26:57)</li> <li><a href="https://justinmares.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Justin Mares</a> (28:21)</li> <li><a href="https://twitter.com/myles_cooks?lang=en" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Miles Snyder</a> (33:01)</li> <li><a href="https://calleymeans.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Calley Means</a> (1:01:34)</li> <li><a href="https://understandingag.com/partners/gabe-brown/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Gabe Brown</a> (1:04:24)</li> </ul> Show Topics: (1:35) The revival of Barnes and Noble along with the influence that 'Booktok' has had on physical book stores. (5:11) How different content performs on Instagram, TikTok, and Youtube. Each platform serves a different purpose whether it's for entertainment or educational.  (12:16) Today, we’re discussing What Your Food Ate by David R. Montgomery and Anne Biklé! Our food is a lot less nutritionally dense than we realize because of way that the food we eat is grown. (14:55) The co-authors' first book talks about the importance of caring for the soil, as that's the base for everything we grow. The same food can have such different nutritional values depending on how it was grown or raised. (20:08) Why nutritional diversity is important and how eating as nutrient dense foods as possible is really important too. When it comes to food, it's best to aim for quality over quantity.  (26:13) When we take a look at the foods we're eating, it makes sense that we may need supplements to give us our essential nutrients that may be otherwise lacking in our diet.  (28:01) What does Europe do differently than the US in terms of growing their food? We also talk about glyphosate levels in the things that we eat. (33:35) We give a brief overview of how the government has subsidized farmers in the US, which plays a role in our food supply and what we eat.  (38:44) Do our food cravings hint to us what we are deficient in? There have been studies done in infants where they chose foods that were beneficial to them when they were sick.  (40:33) It's shown that diet makes a difference in your overall health. Examples: The British WW2 diet and how a study in Japan showed that diet made a difference in mortality rate for those with lung cancer.  (44:45) How we source our food plays a role in our overall health. The nutritional density of the same food can vary just based on how it was raised. (50:39) We share some of our current eating habits from kimchi to sauerkraut, and what we will be having less of. (53:20) So, what solutions do we have and are we trending in the right direction when it comes to the food industry? (59:29) Regenerative farming - can this be seen on a larger scale? Neil talks about the mission of <a href="https://www.truemed.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">TrueMed</a>. (1:06:28) Nutrients in animals have changed over time due to their diet and breeding, and it has an effect on the nutrients we receive from them, too. (1:10:53) That concludes this episode! Catch us next time where we will be discussing <a href="https://www.amazon.com/River-Doubt-Theodore-Roosevelts-Darkest/dp/0767913736/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&amp;qid=1686253023&amp;sr=1-1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The River of Doubt</a>. As episode 100 approaches us, we're excited to hear your suggestions on what we should do for that episode! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@TheRealNeilS</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@adilmajid</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@nateliason</a> and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

98: What Your Food Ate

“The Chinese people had invented the compass, paper, the printing press, gunpowder, the seismograph, the crossbow, and the umbrella; they had sailed to Africa in the fifteenth century; they had constructed the Great Wall; over the past decade they had built their economy at a rate never before seen in the developing world. They could return a rental car with exactly three-eighths of a tank of gas, but filling it was apparently beyond the realm of cultural possibility.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're covering Country Driving, a captivating memoir by Peter Hessler that explores the transformation of China through the lens of its rapidly changing roadways and the people who navigate them.  We cover a wide range of topics including:  The modernization of Chinese infrastructure Negotiation culture in China Exceptionalism and believing your culture is superior The most popular automobiles in America How conditions for laborers have gotten so bad  And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show:   Slate Star Codex reddit thread (0:32) Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History (2:48)  Monthly car payments in America (42:35)  2022's best selling cars (46:05)  Books Mentioned:   The Fish That Ate the Whale (0:11) (Nat's Book Notes)  Energy and Civilization (5:42) (Nat's Book Notes)  On China (21:52)  Cobalt Red (28:57) The Dictator’s Handbook (36:15) (Nat's Book Notes)  People Mentioned:  Sam Bankman-Fried (0:39) Dan Carlin (2:48) Henry Kissinger (21:51)  Show Topics: (0:00) There are some books that can arguably be just a blog post, but we feel this is not the case for Country Driving. (3:35) Country Driving gives insight to what 'Made in China’ means, as we often don't consider the human labor side of the items we own. (6:59) While there are large amounts of ambition and hustle in Chinese culture, is it sustainable and truly for the good of the individual, or is it simply for their own survival?  (9:16) “In China, much of life involves skirting regulations, and one of the basic truths is that forgiveness comes easier than permission.” The central government in China and how enforcement happens moreso on the group level. We also discuss whether people throughout the world are innately the same and how our culture plays a role in how we act under certain circumstances.  (15:33) Negotation culture in China and the patience it takes to draw decisions out until the last possible second. Nearly everything is a negotiation in China, whereas in America, there isn't a whole lot of negotiation. (20:56) Invasion of the Mongols headed by Genghis Khan. As different groups arrived to China, they eventually got absorbed into the current culture. (24:26) One of China’s strengths is the ability to absorb outside cultures. As new figures came into power, they adopted the previous regimes. We also talk about what exceptionalism means in America. (28:00) During China's modernization projects, many workers would be working for just a few instant noodle packets per day. As states become more technologically adept, they continue to mistreat people and extract money from them while also being able to discard the evidence. (33:41) Is it right or wrong to invade a country that’s aggressively using slave labor to harness its natural resources? Though it’s nation building, it also is an invasion on human rights. (39:31) The driving laws and norms in China are different than in the US- From their communication through honking to the lanes they use for turning. (43:11) Why cities in China have their hands tied when it comes to financing.  (48:13) That concludes this episode, thanks for listening! If this episode intrigued you, make sure to pick up a copy of  Country Driving and stay tuned for our next episode. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“The Chinese people had invented the compass, paper, the printing press, gunpowder, the seismograph, the crossbow, and the umbrella; they had sailed to Africa in the fifteenth century; they had constructed the Great Wall; over the past decade they had built their economy at a rate never before seen in the developing world. They could return a rental car with exactly three-eighths of a tank of gas, but filling it was apparently beyond the realm of cultural possibility.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're covering Country Driving, a captivating memoir by Peter Hessler that explores the transformation of China through the lens of its rapidly changing roadways and the people who navigate them.  We cover a wide range of topics including: <ul> <li>The modernization of Chinese infrastructure</li> <li>Negotiation culture in China</li> <li>Exceptionalism and believing your culture is superior</li> <li>The most popular automobiles in America</li> <li>How conditions for laborers have gotten so bad</li> </ul> And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil</a>, and <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Adil</a> on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/13hsvvr/sbf_says_that_most_books_should_have_been_blog/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Slate Star Codex reddit thread</a> (0:32)</li> <li><a href="https://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-series/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History</a> (2:48)</li> <li><a href="https://www.cbsnews.com/news/auto-loan-average-payments-2023-edmunds/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Monthly car payments in America</a> (42:35)</li> <li><a href="https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39628015/best-selling-cars-2022/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> 2022's best selling cars</a> (46:05)</li> </ul> Books Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Fish-That-Ate-Whale-Americas/dp/1250033314/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1476298829&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=fish+that+ate+the+whale&amp;linkCode=ll1&amp;tag=natsite-20&amp;linkId=4e69c4f67537fc56bf71c57eb2a6d9a0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Fish That Ate the Whale</a> (0:11) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/fish-ate-whale-rich-cohen" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Energy-and-Civilization-A-History/dp/B07CMXCWK2/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Energy+and+Civilization&amp;qid=1582260823&amp;s=audible&amp;sr=1-1?tag=natsite-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Energy and Civilization</a> (5:42) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/energy-and-civilization-by-vaclav-smil" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/China-Henry-Kissinger-ebook/dp/B0046ECJBY/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=on+china+by+henry+kissinger&amp;qid=1685456389&amp;sprefix=on+china%2Caps%2C130&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> On China</a> (21:52)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Cobalt-Red-Blood-Congo-Powers/dp/1250284309/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&amp;qid=1685456418&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Cobalt Red</a> (28:57)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/35dGFH5" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Dictator’s Handbook</a> (36:15) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/the-dictators-handbook" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> </ul> People Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Bankman-Fried" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Sam Bankman-Fried</a> (0:39)</li> <li><a href="https://www.dancarlin.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Dan Carlin</a> (2:48)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kissinger" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Henry Kissinger</a> (21:51)</li> </ul> Show Topics: (0:00) There are some books that can arguably be just a blog post, but we feel this is not the case for Country Driving. (3:35) Country Driving gives insight to what 'Made in China’ means, as we often don't consider the human labor side of the items we own. (6:59) While there are large amounts of ambition and hustle in Chinese culture, is it sustainable and truly for the good of the individual, or is it simply for their own survival?  (9:16) “In China, much of life involves skirting regulations, and one of the basic truths is that forgiveness comes easier than permission.” The central government in China and how enforcement happens moreso on the group level. We also discuss whether people throughout the world are innately the same and how our culture plays a role in how we act under certain circumstances.  (15:33) Negotation culture in China and the patience it takes to draw decisions out until the last possible second. Nearly everything is a negotiation in China, whereas in America, there isn't a whole lot of negotiation. (20:56) Invasion of the Mongols headed by Genghis Khan. As different groups arrived to China, they eventually got absorbed into the current culture. (24:26) One of China’s strengths is the ability to absorb outside cultures. As new figures came into power, they adopted the previous regimes. We also talk about what exceptionalism means in America. (28:00) During China's modernization projects, many workers would be working for just a few instant noodle packets per day. As states become more technologically adept, they continue to mistreat people and extract money from them while also being able to discard the evidence. (33:41) Is it right or wrong to invade a country that’s aggressively using slave labor to harness its natural resources? Though it’s nation building, it also is an invasion on human rights. (39:31) The driving laws and norms in China are different than in the US- From their communication through honking to the lanes they use for turning. (43:11) Why cities in China have their hands tied when it comes to financing.  (48:13) That concludes this episode, thanks for listening! If this episode intrigued you, make sure to pick up a copy of <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Country-Driving-Chinese-Road-Trip/dp/006180410X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=20Q43J1BKPDE1&amp;keywords=country+driving%2C+peter+hessler&amp;qid=1685458600&amp;sprefix=country+drivi%2Caps%2C168&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Country Driving</a> and stay tuned for our next episode. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@TheRealNeilS</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@adilmajid</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@nateliason</a> and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

97: Country Driving: A Chinese Road Trip

Kevin Simler

"First, it's important to remember that merit beliefs aren't necessarily true, nor are crony beliefs necessarily false. What distinguishes the two concepts is how we're rewarded for them: via effective actions or via social impressions. The best we can say is that merit beliefs are more likely to be true." Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! This week, we're talking about Kevin Simler's popular Essay: Crony Beliefs. Our beliefs are essentially divided into merit beliefs and crony beliefs. We talk about the many reasons we hold our beliefs, whether it's for accuracy, showing off, or blending in. We cover a wide range of topics including:  Key distinctions between Meritocracy and Cronyism The different agendas that we accomplish through our belief system  Autonomy and individual decision making in the US vs. other countries How crony beliefs show up in the medical field, diet culture, and more What does it take to overturn a belief?  And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show:  Listen Notes (0:15) Hardcore History (Dan Carlin) (2:10) Castro podcast app (2:26) Huberman Lab podcast (3:39) Outside the System (6:53)  The Danny Miranda podcast (7:53)  Books Mentioned:   The Elephant in the Brain (9:39) (Nat's Book Notes)  Country Driving (40:13) Where Is My Flying Car? (54:03)  Atomic Habits (1:03:27) (Nat's Book Notes)  People Mentioned:  Dan Carlin (2:10) Joe Rogan (5:26) Danny Miranda (7:53) Matt Mullenweg (11:06) Charlie Munger (1:06:28)  Show Topics: (0:00) According to Listen Notes, we’re in the top 1% of podcasts! We open the show by talking about podcast stats and the main challenge podcasts face that makes it hard for the show to grow.  (4:42) Differences between podcasts put out by independent creators vs. content distribution companies. (8:33) Today, we're discussing Crony Beliefs by Kevin Simler. He talks about using beliefs as tools or ‘employees’. You have beliefs that you believe in for true reasons, but there are also crony beliefs which you may hold for social or political benefit.  (13:52) We have agendas that we accomplish through our beliefs as they fulfill different reward systems. With Cronyism, we're less concerned about the accuracy of our belief so long as we make the right impression on others.  (20:37) Crony beliefs thrive in areas of ambiguity. However, it's important to note that merit beliefs aren’t always true in the same way that crony beliefs aren’t always false. The distinction comes from how we’re rewarded for our belief and why you believe in it. (24:12) Conspicuousness and standing out so you can be visible to others. It can be hard to tell when someone is sharing something out of the human desire to share and add value, or whether it’s for self-justification purposes. (28:24) There are collections of ideas or rules where as a whole, we feel that we all need to agree on it. We go into the example of traffic laws. Conflicts arise when some groups think an idea has to be mandated whereas some people feel that it's okay ‘as long as it’s not hurting anyone’. (32:06) How something as simple as a traffic light can mean something different in different places in the world. Is it to be obeyed 100% or just for guidance in preventing accidents? (40:08) The US prides itself on democracy, but the individual decision making and autonomy is lower than it is in many other cultures. (47:03) Crony beliefs in the medical field. Many times, it feels riskier to change a belief than to keep going with the current one you have. (49:21) From the outside, it’s difficult to discern what a crony belief is. When it comes time to challenge or change a crony belief, if often would take a large event. Small, gradual changes wouldn't push the dial enough. (54:26) The best way to see if you believe something: Are you willing to test it?  (58:01) The word 'crony' has a negative connotation, but they’re not always bad beliefs to have. We talk about why life wouldn’t be better if we only had meritocratic beliefs. (1:05:24) Could there be a level between crony and merit beliefs? There are many beliefs that are aspirational and positive, but not necessarily true. (1:09:01) We discuss the level of overlap between Kevin Simler's essay on crony beliefs and his book, The Elephant in the Brain. The book is all about the hidden motives that we have, and how we have thoughts that we don't want to acknowledge, yet they drive our behavior. (1:16:45) Harry Potter, Fast and Furious, and Lord of the Rings. Why it's easier to gain traction from remakes and sequels than a whole new story altogether.  (1:20:43) That wraps up this episode! Next up, we'll be reading Country Driving by Peter Hessler. Make sure to pick up a copy of the book if you want to read along with us before the next episode. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

"First, it's important to remember that merit beliefs aren't necessarily true, nor are crony beliefs necessarily false. What distinguishes the two concepts is how we're rewarded for them: via effective actions or via social impressions. The best we can say is that merit beliefs are more likely to be true." Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! This week, we're talking about Kevin Simler's popular Essay: Crony Beliefs. Our beliefs are essentially divided into merit beliefs and crony beliefs. We talk about the many reasons we hold our beliefs, whether it's for accuracy, showing off, or blending in. We cover a wide range of topics including: <ul> <li>Key distinctions between Meritocracy and Cronyism</li> <li>The different agendas that we accomplish through our belief system </li> <li>Autonomy and individual decision making in the US vs. other countries</li> <li>How crony beliefs show up in the medical field, diet culture, and more</li> <li>What does it take to overturn a belief?</li> </ul> And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil</a>, and <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Adil</a> on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.listennotes.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Listen Notes</a> (0:15)</li> <li><a href="https://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-series/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Hardcore History (Dan Carlin)</a> (2:10)</li> <li><a href="https://castro.fm/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Castro podcast app</a> (2:26)</li> <li><a href="https://hubermanlab.com/category/podcast-episodes/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Huberman Lab podcast</a> (3:39)</li> <li><a href="https://www.outsidethesystempodcast.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Outside the System</a> (6:53)</li> <li><a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-danny-miranda-podcast/id1532160275" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Danny Miranda podcast</a> (7:53)</li> </ul> Books Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Elephant-Brain-Hidden-Motives-Everyday/dp/0197551955/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3SWBFTGMNDAJ3&amp;keywords=elephant+in+the+brain&amp;qid=1684763746&amp;sprefix=elephant+in+the+brain%2Caps%2C154&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Elephant in the Brain</a> (9:39) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/the-elephant-in-the-brain-by-robin-hanson-and-kevin-simler" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Country-Driving-Chinese-Road-Trip/dp/006180410X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=9QA1STHWJ30D&amp;keywords=country+driving&amp;qid=1683564997&amp;sprefix=country+driving%2Caps%2C149&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Country Driving</a> (40:13)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3XqzkJE" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Where Is My Flying Car?</a> (54:03)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Atomic-Habits-Proven-Build-Break-ebook/dp/B01N5AX61W" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Atomic Habits</a> (1:03:27) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/atomic-habits-james-clear" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> </ul> People Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.dancarlin.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Dan Carlin</a> (2:10)</li> <li><a href="https://www.joerogan.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Joe Rogan</a> (5:26)</li> <li><a href="https://twitter.com/heydannymiranda" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Danny Miranda</a> (7:53)</li> <li><a href="https://ma.tt/about/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Matt Mullenweg</a> (11:06)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Munger" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Charlie Munger</a> (1:06:28)</li> </ul> Show Topics: (0:00) According to Listen Notes, <a href="https://twitter.com/TheRealNeilS/status/1653167950919073792?s=20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">we’re in the top 1% of podcasts</a>! We open the show by talking about podcast stats and the main challenge podcasts face that makes it hard for the show to grow.  (4:42) Differences between podcasts put out by independent creators vs. content distribution companies. (8:33) Today, we're discussing <a href="https://meltingasphalt.com/crony-beliefs/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Crony Beliefs</a> by Kevin Simler. He talks about using beliefs as tools or ‘employees’. You have beliefs that you believe in for true reasons, but there are also crony beliefs which you may hold for social or political benefit.  (13:52) We have agendas that we accomplish through our beliefs as they fulfill different reward systems. With Cronyism, we're less concerned about the accuracy of our belief so long as we make the right impression on others.  (20:37) Crony beliefs thrive in areas of ambiguity. However, it's important to note that merit beliefs aren’t always true in the same way that crony beliefs aren’t always false. The distinction comes from how we’re rewarded for our belief and why you believe in it. (24:12) Conspicuousness and standing out so you can be visible to others. It can be hard to tell when someone is sharing something out of the human desire to share and add value, or whether it’s for self-justification purposes. (28:24) There are collections of ideas or rules where as a whole, we feel that we all need to agree on it. We go into the example of traffic laws. Conflicts arise when some groups think an idea has to be mandated whereas some people feel that it's okay ‘as long as it’s not hurting anyone’. (32:06) How something as simple as a traffic light can mean something different in different places in the world. Is it to be obeyed 100% or just for guidance in preventing accidents? (40:08) The US prides itself on democracy, but the individual decision making and autonomy is lower than it is in many other cultures. (47:03) Crony beliefs in the medical field. Many times, it feels riskier to change a belief than to keep going with the current one you have. (49:21) From the outside, it’s difficult to discern what a crony belief is. When it comes time to challenge or change a crony belief, if often would take a large event. Small, gradual changes wouldn't push the dial enough. (54:26) The best way to see if you believe something: Are you willing to test it?  (58:01) The word 'crony' has a negative connotation, but they’re not always bad beliefs to have. We talk about why life wouldn’t be better if we only had meritocratic beliefs. (1:05:24) Could there be a level between crony and merit beliefs? There are many beliefs that are aspirational and positive, but not necessarily true. (1:09:01) We discuss the level of overlap between Kevin Simler's essay on crony beliefs and his book, The Elephant in the Brain. The book is all about the hidden motives that we have, and how we have thoughts that we don't want to acknowledge, yet they drive our behavior. (1:16:45) Harry Potter, Fast and Furious, and Lord of the Rings. Why it's easier to gain traction from remakes and sequels than a whole new story altogether.  (1:20:43) That wraps up this episode! Next up, we'll be reading Country Driving by Peter Hessler. Make sure to pick up a copy of the book if you want to read along with us before the next episode. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@TheRealNeilS</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@adilmajid</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@nateliason</a> and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

96: Crony Beliefs by Kevin Simler

“Your unhappiness cannot be blamed on your past or your environment. And it isn’t that you lack competence. You just lack courage. One might say you are lacking in the courage to be happy.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! This week, we're diving into The Courage to Be Disliked by Ichiro Kishimi and Fumitake Koga. This book is full of wisdom, challenging you to free yourself from the expectations placed on you by others so you can achieve happiness. We cover a wide range of topics including:  Pledging loyalty to yourself How "Insta-therapy" can be simultaneously hurtful and helpful When not to give unsolicited advice Are all problems interpersonal problems? Having the courage to follow through on your ideas  And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show:  The End of Medicine (29:40) The Game Changers (29:48) What is a Spoonie? (38:40)  Hurts So Good (40:36)  Books Mentioned:  The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck (3:17) (Nat's Book Notes) How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World (10:19) Finite and Infinite Games (21:55) (Nat's Book Notes) King, Warrior, Magician, Lover (22:03) Antifragile (46:47) (Nat's Book Notes) Turning Pro (55:57) (Nat's Book Notes) Shadow Divers (56:54)  People Mentioned:  Alfred Adler (5:38) Will Durant (10:03) Harry Browne (10:18) Nassim Taleb (46:26) Steven Pressfield (55:55)  Show Topics: 2:10) On today's episode, we're discussing The Courage to Be Disliked. Written by two Japanese authors, the book is a conversation between a German philosopher and a young man teaching that the past doesn’t control you, as you have ownership over your life and your actions. (7:16) Insta-therapy; social media posts all about therapy and unpacking trauma. While it can be helpful and informational, there can be some downside to it, too. When it comes to therapy, there's a difference between unpacking your life and taking action on it. (12:29) The book talks about lifestyles and how it's something that we can choose at any point in our life. (15:17) Everything you experience is in context of other people. Separation of tasks: Don’t try to do somebody’s tasks for them. "A parent suffering over the relationship with his or her child will tend to think, 'My child is my life.' In other words, the parent is taking on the child’s task as his or her own, and is no longer able to think about anything but the child. When at last the parent notices it, the ‘I’ is already gone from his or her life. However, no matter how much of the burden of the child’s task one carries, the child is still an independent individual." (23:23) Unsolicited feedback. You can usually tell if someone’s feedback is sincere or if it's for their own benefit. (29:54) Vegan diet vs. standard American diet, and how elimination diets are a way to see how your body reacts and what you’re sensitive to.  (34:15) Once we took lead out of gasoline, violent crime rates and other factors went down tremendously. The "Spoonie" community.  (40:46) When you identify with a group, you may tend to believe in all related ideas or beliefs in order to stay a part of that group, even if the ideas are questionable. (42:54) The way the book frames ambition and how you shouldn’t be seeking recognition. By being ambitious, you can contribute to more people.  (45:27) Nat, Neil, and Adil discuss the title of the book and their interpretations of it. It’s impossible to get everyone like you. If you aren’t disliked, you’re restricting your behavior to receive a more favorable outcome, but are you really free?  (51:34) Pledging loyalty to yourself and recognizing that you can't please everybody. (54:14) When you think you can’t do something, it’s often because you lack the courage to follow through on it. You can't fail if you don't start, and that can prevent you from taking action. (56:34) That wraps up this episode! Next up, we'll be covering  Country Driving by Peter Hessler so make sure to pick up a copy and read along with us before our next episode. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“Your unhappiness cannot be blamed on your past or your environment. And it isn’t that you lack competence. You just lack courage. One might say you are lacking in the courage to be happy.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! This week, we're diving into The Courage to Be Disliked by Ichiro Kishimi and Fumitake Koga. This book is full of wisdom, challenging you to free yourself from the expectations placed on you by others so you can achieve happiness. We cover a wide range of topics including: <ul> <li>Pledging loyalty to yourself</li> <li>How "Insta-therapy" can be simultaneously hurtful and helpful</li> <li>When not to give unsolicited advice</li> <li>Are all problems interpersonal problems?</li> <li>Having the courage to follow through on your ideas</li> </ul> And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil</a>, and <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Adil</a> on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12833038/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The End of Medicine</a> (29:40)</li> <li><a href="https://gamechangersmovie.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Game Changers</a> (29:48)</li> <li><a href="https://www.patientsrising.org/what-is-spoonie/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">What is a Spoonie?</a> (38:40)</li> <li><a href="https://www.thefp.com/p/hurts-so-good?utm_source=email&amp;publication_id=260347&amp;post_id=72020791" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Hurts So Good</a> (40:36)</li> </ul> Books Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/42dIR9P" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck</a> (3:17) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/subtle-art-not-giving-fuck-mark-manson" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3M5chkT" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World</a> (10:19)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/41e4oy8" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Finite and Infinite Games</a> (21:55) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/finite-infinite-games-james-carse" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3VIcttG" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">King, Warrior, Magician, Lover</a> (22:03)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/44CDLFT" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Antifragile</a> (46:47) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/antifragile" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/42BWXSb" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Turning Pro</a> (55:57) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/turning-pro-stephen-pressfield" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/44Dapas" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Shadow Divers</a> (56:54)</li> </ul> People Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Adler" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alfred Adler</a> (5:38)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Durant" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will Durant</a> (10:03)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Browne" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Harry Browne</a> (10:18)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassim_Nicholas_Taleb" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nassim Taleb</a> (46:26)</li> <li><a href="https://stevenpressfield.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Steven Pressfield</a> (55:55)</li> </ul> Show Topics: 2:10) On today's episode, we're discussing The Courage to Be Disliked. Written by two Japanese authors, the book is a conversation between a German philosopher and a young man teaching that the past doesn’t control you, as you have ownership over your life and your actions. (7:16) Insta-therapy; social media posts all about therapy and unpacking trauma. While it can be helpful and informational, there can be some downside to it, too. When it comes to therapy, there's a difference between unpacking your life and taking action on it. (12:29) The book talks about lifestyles and how it's something that we can choose at any point in our life. (15:17) Everything you experience is in context of other people. Separation of tasks: Don’t try to do somebody’s tasks for them. "A parent suffering over the relationship with his or her child will tend to think, 'My child is my life.' In other words, the parent is taking on the child’s task as his or her own, and is no longer able to think about anything but the child. When at last the parent notices it, the ‘I’ is already gone from his or her life. However, no matter how much of the burden of the child’s task one carries, the child is still an independent individual." (23:23) Unsolicited feedback. You can usually tell if someone’s feedback is sincere or if it's for their own benefit. (29:54) Vegan diet vs. standard American diet, and how elimination diets are a way to see how your body reacts and what you’re sensitive to.  (34:15) Once we took lead out of gasoline, violent crime rates and other factors went down tremendously. The "Spoonie" community.  (40:46) When you identify with a group, you may tend to believe in all related ideas or beliefs in order to stay a part of that group, even if the ideas are questionable. (42:54) The way the book frames ambition and how you shouldn’t be seeking recognition. By being ambitious, you can contribute to more people.  (45:27) Nat, Neil, and Adil discuss the title of the book and their interpretations of it. It’s impossible to get everyone like you. If you aren’t disliked, you’re restricting your behavior to receive a more favorable outcome, but are you really free?  (51:34) Pledging loyalty to yourself and recognizing that you can't please everybody. (54:14) When you think you can’t do something, it’s often because you lack the courage to follow through on it. You can't fail if you don't start, and that can prevent you from taking action. (56:34) That wraps up this episode! Next up, we'll be covering <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Country-Driving-Chinese-Road-Trip/dp/006180410X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=9QA1STHWJ30D&amp;keywords=country+driving&amp;qid=1683564997&amp;sprefix=country+driving%2Caps%2C149&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Country Driving</a> by Peter Hessler so make sure to pick up a copy and read along with us before our next episode. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@TheRealNeilS</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@adilmajid</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@nateliason</a> and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

95: The Secret to Happiness: The Courage to Be Disliked

“It was impossible to expect a moral awakening from humankind itself, just like it was impossible to expect humans to lift off the earth by pulling up on their own hair. To achieve moral awakening required a force outside the human race.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this long-awaited episode, we're covering The Three-Body Problem, a science fiction trilogy by Liu Cixin. Find out what happens when a military group successfully sends signals into space in hopes of making contact with aliens. We cover a wide range of topics including:  The difference bewteen exponential and linear cultures Why anything in the "dark forest" should be considered a threat Using hibernation as a form of time traveling Escapism and the need to flee earth to survive The fragility of being a human and remaining healthy  And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.   Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show:  The Last of Us (0:59)  Death's End meme (4:21) Casa Grande Ruins (15:29) TransMedics (25:59) Fermi paradox (1:01:22)  Books Mentioned:  Project Hail Mary (6:17) Where Is My Flying Car? (38:42)  What Your Food Ate (39:19) The Paper Menagerie (51:07) Einstein: His Life and Universe (56:20) The Sovereign Individual (1:10:54) (Nat's Book Notes) The Courage to Be Disliked (1:15:36)  People Mentioned:  Liu Cixin Ken Liu (49:53) Walter Isaacson (56:20)  Show Topics: (0:00) This week, we're diving into The Three-Body Problem! Spoiler alert: If you haven’t read the book and don’t want anything given away, we recommend you come back to this episode later to avoid learning plot twists and key information. (6:13) One of the quirks of the alien species is that they are not able to deceive each other. We also talk about the difference between exponential vs. linear culture. (10:16) The books jump through many genres from a mystery thriller to classic adventure. We provide some of the context of the book and ponder on how other civilizations would view humans in their perspective. (13:37) Nat, Neil, and Adil share their reactions on the end of the story and the inevitable death that everybody faces.  (15:12) Preserving information and monuments over time. There are still stone engravings that hold up today, but even things like paper and hard drives aren’t able to withstand the test of time.  (19:15) This year, The Three-Body Problem is  hitting Netflix as a TV series! We talk about what the show may look like and how they will portray the different dimensions. (22:52) A lot can change in just a short time. How would humanity react if we found out today that in a few hundred years, humanity would be destroyed by a group of powerful aliens? (24:12) How the book presented the idea of hibernation and using someone’s skills later as opposed to the current moment. In a way, it's like time traveling. (28:58) Escapism, the space cities, and how easy it is to be poisoned by your own environment. (32:53) Wallfacers and other interesting ideas that the author incorporated into the storyline. The series was very interesting for its many different paradoxes and sociological concepts. (38:30) There's the paradox that we have so much we can potentially solve with our technological advancements, but at the same time, do we really have all of the of smaller components and variables of it figured out? (41:15) The fragility of being human and the importance of micronutrients to our functioning that we may or may not realize.  (47:21) The series is based on the author's back story in the cultural revolution in China. While written in 2007, the books weren't translated into English until 2014 where some parts of the story got slightly changed or adapted. (52:14) Will there be substantial changes in how we understand and view the universe in the next century, and how will these shift our perception of these novels? (1:00:01) There's a sense in today's world that we’ve simply figured everything out, while we arguably have a lot more yet to discover. (1:01:12) The Dark Forest theory. The idea that there are potentially many alien civilizations that exist, and other intelligent lives we come across would presumably be seen as a threat. (1:11:30) Nat, Neil, and Adil share their thoughts on which of the books in the trilogy was their favorite. (1:15:35) That’s a wrap! Next up, we're reading The Courage to Be Disliked. Make sure to pick up a copy if you'd like to read along before the next episode! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“It was impossible to expect a moral awakening from humankind itself, just like it was impossible to expect humans to lift off the earth by pulling up on their own hair. To achieve moral awakening required a force outside the human race.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this long-awaited episode, we're covering The Three-Body Problem, a science fiction trilogy by Liu Cixin. Find out what happens when a military group successfully sends signals into space in hopes of making contact with aliens. We cover a wide range of topics including: <ul> <li>The difference bewteen exponential and linear cultures</li> <li>Why anything in the "dark forest" should be considered a threat</li> <li>Using hibernation as a form of time traveling</li> <li>Escapism and the need to flee earth to survive</li> <li>The fragility of being a human and remaining healthy</li> </ul> And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil</a>, and <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Adil</a> on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.hbo.com/the-last-of-us" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Last of Us</a> (0:59)</li> <li><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/threebodyproblem/comments/lfm8y8/ittybitty_deaths_end_spoilerly_meme/?utm_source=share&amp;utm_medium=ios_app&amp;utm_name=ioscss&amp;utm_content=1&amp;utm_term=1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Death's End meme</a> (4:21)</li> <li><a href="https://www.nps.gov/cagr/index.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Casa Grande Ruins</a> (15:29)</li> <li><a href="https://www.transmedics.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">TransMedics</a> (25:59)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Fermi paradox</a> (1:01:22)</li> </ul> Books Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3mZuKpw" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Project Hail Mary</a> (6:17)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/41TSUQZ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Where Is My Flying Car?</a> (38:42) </li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3N5Kge7" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">What Your Food Ate</a> (39:19)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3N3g1o6" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Paper Menagerie</a> (51:07)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3NcJagy" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Einstein: His Life and Universe</a> (56:20)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3HaVkCZ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Sovereign Individual</a> (1:10:54) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/sovereign-individual" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/41XNqF3" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Courage to Be Disliked</a> (1:15:36)</li> </ul> People Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Cixin#Life_and_career" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Liu Cixin</a></li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Liu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ken Liu</a> (49:53)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Isaacson" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Walter Isaacson</a> (56:20)</li> </ul> Show Topics: (0:00) This week, we're diving into The Three-Body Problem! Spoiler alert: If you haven’t read the book and don’t want anything given away, we recommend you come back to this episode later to avoid learning plot twists and key information. (6:13) One of the quirks of the alien species is that they are not able to deceive each other. We also talk about the difference between exponential vs. linear culture. (10:16) The books jump through many genres from a mystery thriller to classic adventure. We provide some of the context of the book and ponder on how other civilizations would view humans in their perspective. (13:37) Nat, Neil, and Adil share their reactions on the end of the story and the inevitable death that everybody faces.  (15:12) Preserving information and monuments over time. There are still stone engravings that hold up today, but even things like paper and hard drives aren’t able to withstand the test of time.  (19:15) This year, The Three-Body Problem is <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three-Body_Problem_(upcoming_TV_series)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> hitting Netflix</a> as a TV series! We talk about what the show may look like and how they will portray the different dimensions. (22:52) A lot can change in just a short time. How would humanity react if we found out today that in a few hundred years, humanity would be destroyed by a group of powerful aliens? (24:12) How the book presented the idea of hibernation and using someone’s skills later as opposed to the current moment. In a way, it's like time traveling. (28:58) Escapism, the space cities, and how easy it is to be poisoned by your own environment. (32:53) Wallfacers and other interesting ideas that the author incorporated into the storyline. The series was very interesting for its many different paradoxes and sociological concepts. (38:30) There's the paradox that we have so much we can potentially solve with our technological advancements, but at the same time, do we really have all of the of smaller components and variables of it figured out? (41:15) The fragility of being human and the importance of micronutrients to our functioning that we may or may not realize.  (47:21) The series is based on the author's back story in the cultural revolution in China. While written in 2007, the books weren't translated into English until 2014 where some parts of the story got slightly changed or adapted. (52:14) Will there be substantial changes in how we understand and view the universe in the next century, and how will these shift our perception of these novels? (1:00:01) There's a sense in today's world that we’ve simply figured everything out, while we arguably have a lot more yet to discover. (1:01:12) The Dark Forest theory. The idea that there are potentially many alien civilizations that exist, and other intelligent lives we come across would presumably be seen as a threat. (1:11:30) Nat, Neil, and Adil share their thoughts on which of the books in the trilogy was their favorite. (1:15:35) That’s a wrap! Next up, we're reading The Courage to Be Disliked. Make sure to pick up a copy if you'd like to read along before the next episode! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@TheRealNeilS</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@adilmajid</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@nateliason</a> and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

94: Sunset for Humanity: The Three-Body Problem

“Most people, in fact, will not take the trouble in finding out the truth, but are much more inclined to accept the first story they hear.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're diving into History of the Peloponnesian War by Thucydides. Full of speeches, history, parallels, and battles, this book provides an account of the Peloponnesian War as told by an Athenian general. We cover a wide range of topics including:  The style of combat in 5th century BC vs. modern tactics Effects of the plague of Athens Unhinged Google reviews of the US House of Representatives How war is depicted differently depending on your perspective The difference in lifestyle between the Spartans and Athenians  And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show:   Chesterton’s Fence (22:20) Battle of Stalingrad (37:16) Letters From Iwo Jima (49:37) Flags of Our Fathers (49:40)  Books Mentioned:  History of the Peloponessian War The Three-Body Problem (0:07) (Nat's Book Notes) The Iliad (8:12) (Nat's Book Notes) The Fourth Turning (44:29) The Lessons of History (46:36) (Nat's Book Notes)  People Mentioned:  Chris Kyle (48:02) Clint Eastwood (49:29) Xenophon (51:11)  Show Topics: (1:06) History of the Peloponnesian War- The first and oldest history book that we have. While there are older books about historical events and periods, this book strives to depict things with historical accuracy rather than for storytelling and entertainment purposes.  (6:08) The history was divided into eight books, and each book changes slightly in the style of which it was written. (9:10) What was the Peloponnesian War? We talk about the history of the war. While the Athenians and Spartans were the main players in the fight, there were a bunch of smaller allies mentioned as well. (14:41) "If an opponent made a reasonable speech, the party in power, so far from giving it a generous reception, took every precaution to see that it had no practical effect." Nat, Neil, and Adil read some passages from the book and discuss some of the parallels. (19:44)  "A city is better off with bad laws, so long as they remain fixed, than with good laws that are constantly being altered, that lack of learning combined with sound common sense is more helpful than the kind of cleverness that gets out of hand, and that as a general rule states are better governed by the man in the street than by intellectuals.” Many politicians in the earlier days had a career before they were a politician, and many roles in politics were just on a part time basis whereas today, most elected officials are in that role full time.  (26:19) What do people really think of the US House of Representatives? (28:09) Strength of the Athenian navy. Much of the naval battles included hand-to-hand combat as guns and cannons were not yet in use. This looked much different than naval battles would in today's time.  (35:01) While the sizes of the battles seem very small in comparison to today, it still affected a sizeable percentage of the population. (40:54) The writing style changed as the book went on. In the beginning, there were more detailed descriptions of the actual war, but as it went on, the narrative became more of an accounting of the battles and casualties.  (41:37) The book describes a plague that broke out that ended up killing a lot of people. Why “watch words” were common in this war as a tool to recognize who was or was not on your side.  (47:45) Depictions of war today include the costs that come with war such as the potential of losing your home or family. There can be different perspectives of the same battle just based on what side you're on and where you live. (53:14) That wraps up this episode! As previously hinted, we will be covering The Three-Body Problem next. Make sure to grab a copy to follow along with us! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“Most people, in fact, will not take the trouble in finding out the truth, but are much more inclined to accept the first story they hear.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're diving into History of the Peloponnesian War by Thucydides. Full of speeches, history, parallels, and battles, this book provides an account of the Peloponnesian War as told by an Athenian general. We cover a wide range of topics including: <ul> <li>The style of combat in 5th century BC vs. modern tactics</li> <li>Effects of the plague of Athens</li> <li>Unhinged Google reviews of the US House of Representatives</li> <li>How war is depicted differently depending on your perspective</li> <li>The difference in lifestyle between the Spartans and Athenians</li> </ul> And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil</a>, and <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Adil</a> on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show: <ul> <li><a href="https://thoughtbot.com/blog/chestertons-fence#:~:text=Chesterton's%20Fence%20is%20a%20principle,why%20it%20was%20put%20up." rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Chesterton’s Fence</a> (22:20)</li> <li><a href="https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-Stalingrad" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Battle of Stalingrad</a> (37:16)</li> <li><a href="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0498380/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Letters From Iwo Jima</a> (49:37)</li> <li><a href="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418689/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Flags of Our Fathers</a> (49:40)</li> </ul> Books Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3GlRNkH" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">History of the Peloponessian War</a></li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3KarZJA" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Three-Body Problem</a> (0:07) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/the-three-body-problem-cixin-liu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/434JjIx" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Iliad</a> (8:12) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/iliad-homer" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3MhIEgR" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Fourth Turning</a> (44:29)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3UbpuuR" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Lessons of History</a> (46:36) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/lessons-history-will-ariel-durant" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> </ul> People Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Kyle" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Chris Kyle</a> (48:02)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Eastwood" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Clint Eastwood</a> (49:29)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophon" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Xenophon</a> (51:11)</li> </ul> Show Topics: (1:06) History of the Peloponnesian War- The first and oldest history book that we have. While there are older books about historical events and periods, this book strives to depict things with historical accuracy rather than for storytelling and entertainment purposes.  (6:08) The history was divided into eight books, and each book changes slightly in the style of which it was written. (9:10) What was the Peloponnesian War? We talk about the history of the war. While the Athenians and Spartans were the main players in the fight, there were a bunch of smaller allies mentioned as well. (14:41) "If an opponent made a reasonable speech, the party in power, so far from giving it a generous reception, took every precaution to see that it had no practical effect." Nat, Neil, and Adil read some passages from the book and discuss some of the parallels. (19:44)  "A city is better off with bad laws, so long as they remain fixed, than with good laws that are constantly being altered, that lack of learning combined with sound common sense is more helpful than the kind of cleverness that gets out of hand, and that as a general rule states are better governed by the man in the street than by intellectuals.” Many politicians in the earlier days had a career before they were a politician, and many roles in politics were just on a part time basis whereas today, most elected officials are in that role full time.  (26:19) What do people really think of the US House of Representatives? (28:09) Strength of the Athenian navy. Much of the naval battles included hand-to-hand combat as guns and cannons were not yet in use. This looked much different than naval battles would in today's time.  (35:01) While the sizes of the battles seem very small in comparison to today, it still affected a sizeable percentage of the population. (40:54) The writing style changed as the book went on. In the beginning, there were more detailed descriptions of the actual war, but as it went on, the narrative became more of an accounting of the battles and casualties.  (41:37) The book describes a plague that broke out that ended up killing a lot of people. Why “watch words” were common in this war as a tool to recognize who was or was not on your side.  (47:45) Depictions of war today include the costs that come with war such as the potential of losing your home or family. There can be different perspectives of the same battle just based on what side you're on and where you live. (53:14) That wraps up this episode! As previously hinted, we will be covering The Three-Body Problem next. Make sure to grab a copy to follow along with us! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

93: The First History Book: History of the Peloponnesian War

“It is not the race that makes the civilization, it is the civilization that makes the people: circumstances geographical, economic, and political create a culture, and the culture creates a human type.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're talking about The Lessons of History by Will and Ariel Durant. This concise yet jam-packed book presents pivotal moments and ideas throughout history covering thirteen different areas including religion, progress, government, and character.  We cover a wide range of topics including:  The progression of humans as a species Religious entities being replaced by secular entities Why freedom and equality are "enemies" War as a constant of history How tension is necessary for a society to function  And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show:  No Agenda Show (55:01) Moore’s Law (1:15:00)  Three Generations Theory (1:18:49)  Books Mentioned:  The Lessons of History (Nat's Book Notes) The Psychology of Money (3:05) (Nat's Book Notes) Atomic Habits (3:51) (Nat's Book Notes) Antifragile (4:50) (Nat's Book Notes) Fooled by Randomness (4:52) (Nat's Book Notes) The Black Swan (5:05) (Nat's Book Notes) Skin in the Game (5:15) (Nat's Book Notes) The Story of Civilization (7:41) The Story of Philosophy (7:47) (Nat's Book Notes) Gödel, Escher, Bach (10:37) (Nat's Book Notes) Getting Things Done (11:58) Hooked (13:24) (Nat's Book Notes) The Art of Seduction (14:26) (Nat's Book Notes) The Art of War (14:29)  The 48 Laws of Power (15:12) (Nat's Book Notes) The 50th Law (15:21) (Nat's Book Notes) Mastery (15:34) (Nat's Book Notes) The Firm (18:57) A Time to Kill (19:01) Where Is My Flying Car? (28:22) On China (35:13)  The Alchemy of Finance (38:47) The Fourth Turning (1:04:09) Permutation City (1:17:03) The Three-Body Problem (1:23:50) (Nat's Book Notes) Snow Crash (1:25:45) (Nat's Book Notes) Seveneves (1:26:00)  People Mentioned:  Nassim Taleb (2:18) Morgan Housel (3:06) James Clear (3:50) David Allen (11:57) Robert Greene (14:15) John Grisham (18:56) Tim Ferriss (56:25)  Show Topics: (0:00) In this episode, we're discussing The Lessons of History by Will and Ariel Durant. On brand with Made You Think, we start the episode with a good 'ol tangent! (4:19) The difference between fiction and non-fiction authors in the development of their writing and storytelling over time. For nonfiction writers who tend to write about the same few ideas, it can be hard to keep it novel when delivering those ideas. (10:33) What makes a book the best of that author’s career- the quality of their writing or the ideas in the book itself? Nat, Neil, and Adil talk about different authors and books that were the peak of the author’s writing career. (16:59) Authors always seem to be competing with their earlier work or their most popular book. There are also cases where a successful book later on in your career can kickstart the popularity of an earlier book that didn’t get any previous traction. (23:23) Why people tend to avoid books that are commonly recommended by everyone. (27:14) The last chapter talks about progress, where progress refers to our species rather than scientific progress. In many ways (ex: communication, technology) we have progressed, but if you look at it from another viewpoint, more problems stem over time from some of the solutions that we have found. (30:45) No matter how great our lives are, we always find something to be unhappy about. "Our capacity for fretting is endless, and no matter how many difficulties we surmount, how many ideals we realize, we shall always find an excuse for being magnificently miserable; there is a stealthy pleasure in rejecting mankind or the universe as unworthy of our approval." (35:53) The existence of healthy tension- You need a healthy amount of debate and disagreement in order to find the line of best fit. (40:22) “The fear of capitalism has compelled socialism to widen freedom, and the fear of socialism has compelled capitalism to increase equality." We are somewhere in the middle of capitalism and socialism. Freedom vs. equality in opportunity. (47:55) "There is no significant example in history, before our time, of a society successfully maintaining moral life without the aid of religion. France, the United States, and some other nations have divorced their governments from all churches, but they have had the help of religion in keeping social order." Everybody believes in something whether it's formal religion or not. There are many alternatives to religion where people gather over a common interest or practice. (52:28) Different groups come with different depths of relationships. We give the example of depth of religious relationships vs. relationships with those you meet in a CrossFit gym. (57:40) It tells you a lot about someone when they have more obscure interests rather than mainstream interests.  (1:00:54) Are influencers taking on the role of 'idols'?  (1:07:26) When it comes to making predictions, it's hard to be completely accurate when there’s always a variable that changes. One thing that has been standard and constant over the years: War.  (1:12:12) Though it's statistically unlikely to encounter a violent revolution in each given year, it's beneficial to have a baseline level of preparedness to survive. (1:14:05) As the population grows, we find more ways to make food. With more food, we grow more as a population. When we think we may hit max population or another ceiling, new discoveries are made. (1:16:10) Without death, can the species still progress? While many may desire the choice of their own immortality, it may not be good for human civilization. (1:21:30) That concludes this episode! Stay tuned as we gear up for our next episodes on Peloponnesian War and The Three-Body Problem. Plus, we talk about other fascinating science fiction books that may pique your interest as this episode winds down. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“It is not the race that makes the civilization, it is the civilization that makes the people: circumstances geographical, economic, and political create a culture, and the culture creates a human type.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're talking about The Lessons of History by Will and Ariel Durant. This concise yet jam-packed book presents pivotal moments and ideas throughout history covering thirteen different areas including religion, progress, government, and character.  We cover a wide range of topics including: <ul> <li>The progression of humans as a species</li> <li>Religious entities being replaced by secular entities</li> <li>Why freedom and equality are "enemies"</li> <li>War as a constant of history</li> <li>How tension is necessary for a society to function</li> </ul> And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil</a>, and <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Adil</a> on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.noagendashow.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">No Agenda Show</a> (55:01)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Moore’s Law</a> (1:15:00)</li> <li><a href="https://cryptoslate.com/three-generations-theory-aleksander-svetskis-latest-op-ed-gives-bitcoin-maxis-hope-for-new-utopia/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Three Generations Theory</a> (1:18:49)</li> </ul> Books Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3nrbxwS" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Lessons of History</a> (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/lessons-history-will-ariel-durant" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3MgGY7x" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Psychology of Money</a> (3:05) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/the-psychology-of-money" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3zgxpNU" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Atomic Habits</a> (3:51) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/atomic-habits-james-clear" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3lMamHP" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Antifragile</a> (4:50) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/antifragile" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3zjNlyQ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Fooled by Randomness</a> (4:52) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/fooled-randomness-nassim-nicholas-taleb" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/40v5JBa" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Black Swan</a> (5:05) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/black-swan-nassim-nicholas-taleb" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3TYqnak" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Skin in the Game</a> (5:15) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/skin-in-the-game-by-nassim-taleb" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3FYlrfI" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Story of Civilization</a> (7:41)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3nw1GWk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Story of Philosophy</a> (7:47) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/story-of-philosophy-will-durant" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3zcJlQG" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Gödel, Escher, Bach</a> (10:37) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/godel-escher-bach-douglas-hofstadter" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3JZKNey" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Getting Things Done</a> (11:58)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/40KvVaj" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Hooked</a> (13:24) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/hooked-nir-eyal-ryan-hoover" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/40AJFVq" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Art of Seduction</a> (14:26) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/art-seduction-robert-greene" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3TUSEyj" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Art of War</a> (14:29) </li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3G0B5r0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The 48 Laws of Power</a> (15:12) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/48-laws-power-robert-greene" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/40GdEv1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The 50th Law</a> (15:21) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/50th-law-robert-greene" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3nvBr2e" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Mastery</a> (15:34) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/mastery-robert-greene" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3JVzGmu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Firm</a> (18:57)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/42OpG7f" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">A Time to Kill</a> (19:01)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3TNJDY1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Where Is My Flying Car?</a> (28:22)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/42PUMvc" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">On China</a> (35:13) </li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/40rkMM0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Alchemy of Finance</a> (38:47)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/42Rwml5" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Fourth Turning</a> (1:04:09)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/40pMGYE" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Permutation City</a> (1:17:03)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3G1l8Rs" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Three-Body Problem</a> (1:23:50) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/the-three-body-problem-cixin-liu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3Kc0uQV" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Snow Crash</a> (1:25:45) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/snow-crash-neal-stephenson" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3JQDrK4" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Seveneves</a> (1:26:00)</li> </ul> People Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassim_Nicholas_Taleb" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nassim Taleb</a> (2:18)</li> <li><a href="https://www.morganhousel.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Morgan Housel</a> (3:06)</li> <li><a href="https://jamesclear.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">James Clear</a> (3:50)</li> <li><a href="https://gettingthingsdone.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">David Allen</a> (11:57)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Greene_(American_author)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Robert Greene</a> (14:15)</li> <li><a href="https://www.jgrisham.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">John Grisham</a> (18:56)</li> <li><a href="https://tim.blog/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Tim Ferriss</a> (56:25)</li> </ul> Show Topics: (0:00) In this episode, we're discussing The Lessons of History by Will and Ariel Durant. On brand with Made You Think, we start the episode with a good 'ol tangent! (4:19) The difference between fiction and non-fiction authors in the development of their writing and storytelling over time. For nonfiction writers who tend to write about the same few ideas, it can be hard to keep it novel when delivering those ideas. (10:33) What makes a book the best of that author’s career- the quality of their writing or the ideas in the book itself? Nat, Neil, and Adil talk about different authors and books that were the peak of the author’s writing career. (16:59) Authors always seem to be competing with their earlier work or their most popular book. There are also cases where a successful book later on in your career can kickstart the popularity of an earlier book that didn’t get any previous traction. (23:23) Why people tend to avoid books that are commonly recommended by everyone. (27:14) The last chapter talks about progress, where progress refers to our species rather than scientific progress. In many ways (ex: communication, technology) we have progressed, but if you look at it from another viewpoint, more problems stem over time from some of the solutions that we have found. (30:45) No matter how great our lives are, we always find something to be unhappy about. "Our capacity for fretting is endless, and no matter how many difficulties we surmount, how many ideals we realize, we shall always find an excuse for being magnificently miserable; there is a stealthy pleasure in rejecting mankind or the universe as unworthy of our approval." (35:53) The existence of healthy tension- You need a healthy amount of debate and disagreement in order to find the line of best fit. (40:22) “The fear of capitalism has compelled socialism to widen freedom, and the fear of socialism has compelled capitalism to increase equality." We are somewhere in the middle of capitalism and socialism. Freedom vs. equality in opportunity. (47:55) "There is no significant example in history, before our time, of a society successfully maintaining moral life without the aid of religion. France, the United States, and some other nations have divorced their governments from all churches, but they have had the help of religion in keeping social order." Everybody believes in something whether it's formal religion or not. There are many alternatives to religion where people gather over a common interest or practice. (52:28) Different groups come with different depths of relationships. We give the example of depth of religious relationships vs. relationships with those you meet in a CrossFit gym. (57:40) It tells you a lot about someone when they have more obscure interests rather than mainstream interests.  (1:00:54) Are influencers taking on the role of 'idols'?  (1:07:26) When it comes to making predictions, it's hard to be completely accurate when there’s always a variable that changes. One thing that has been standard and constant over the years: War.  (1:12:12) Though it's statistically unlikely to encounter a violent revolution in each given year, it's beneficial to have a baseline level of preparedness to survive. (1:14:05) As the population grows, we find more ways to make food. With more food, we grow more as a population. When we think we may hit max population or another ceiling, new discoveries are made. (1:16:10) Without death, can the species still progress? While many may desire the choice of their own immortality, it may not be good for human civilization. (1:21:30) That concludes this episode! Stay tuned as we gear up for our next episodes on Peloponnesian War and The Three-Body Problem. Plus, we talk about other fascinating science fiction books that may pique your interest as this episode winds down. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@TheRealNeilS</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@adilmajid</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@nateliason</a> and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

92: The Lessons of History

“Opponents replied that when you modeled a hurricane, nobody got wet. When you modeled a fusion power plant, no energy was produced. When you modeled digestion and metabolism, no nutrients were consumed – no real digestion took place. So, when you modeled the human brain, why should you expect real thought to occur?” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're talking all things consciousness and simulated reality with Permutation City by Greg Egan. Classified as a hard science fiction novel, the book tells the story of a man who seeks to create immortality by creating "software" copies of the mind. We cover a wide range of topics including:  The complex nature of consciousness Egan's "Dust Theory" What it's like to live in a simulation Ethics surrounding death and dying The possibilities that come with computer intelligence  And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show:  The Dust Theory (3:51)  Biocentrism (7:37) Black Mirror - San Junipero (30:48) Turing test (35:52) Her (39:08) Building a Second Brain (1:07:05) The Expanse (1:08:08)  ChatGPT Epilogue to Permutation City  Books Mentioned:  Godel Escher Bach (0:42) (Nat’s Book Notes) The Three-Body Problem (0:58) (Nat’s Book Notes) The Beginning of Infinity (16:42) (Nat’s Book Notes) The Egg (19:27) The Fable of the Dragon Tyrant (24:26) The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (26:58) Where Is my Flying Car? (27:13)  The Comfort Crisis (30:20)  Homo Deus (44:41) (Nat's Book Notes) Altered Carbon (53:41) The Lessons of History (1:02:26)  People Mentioned:  Greg Egan (3:54) Arthur Clarke (16:39) Issac Asimov (16:40) Andy Weir (19:28) Liu Cixin (1:04:31)  Show Topics: (0:00) If you're a science fiction lover, this week's episode is for you! We’re discussing Permutation City, a 'hard science fiction' book from 1994. This book explores many concepts including The Dust Theory and achieving immortality through copying your consciousness. (4:24) Intro to Dust Theory. There are infinitely many universes existing at all space and time. As soon as a universe is perceived by a conscious intelligence, that universe comes to exist, and that universe will always continue to exist as long as there is consciousness to observe it. (8:11) Are we in a simulation? We learn in response to stimuli which is also how LLMs (large language models) learn too. (13:12) Nat, Neil, and Adil define consciousness, discuss the idea of transporting consciousness, and how we differ from LLMs. We have a private and inner mind that generates its own thoughts and feelings. We can't be certain whether computers have this or not. (22:01) There's an 'engine' in our heads that is focused on our survival and continuation. (23:21) Ethics surrounding death. One can argue that life is short, but when you've lived for thousands of years through copying your consciousness, it becomes a question of when it's enough. (28:39) If we could somehow prevent bodily decay and the death of our loved ones, would we ever be ready to die, and is aging something that we can slow down or affect?  (33:43) In the book, from the perspective of the humans, the copies are just programs who look intelligent, but they aren’t real. From the perspective of the copies, it’s all very real. (41:31) Time dilation and running consciousness slower for the copies. The slowdown doesn’t necessarily affect the copy. The time perception is still the same to them, but it may affect how they interact with the real world. (46:08) There's a baseline risk for being alive. You can try to get all of your life risks to zero, but it is best to accept that there will always be some general risk. (51:49) Collaboration in publishing. While most books have a single author, it may add some dimension to get expertise from guest authors with knowledge in different fields. (54:50) What did Greg Egan regret most about Permutation City?  (1:02:11) That concludes this episode! Stay tuned for our next episode on History of the Peloponnesian War. Also on the horizon is  The Three-Body Problem. Make sure to pick up a copy if you'd like to read up before the episode. As mentioned, check out this awesome  epilogue created by ChatGPT! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“Opponents replied that when you modeled a hurricane, nobody got wet. When you modeled a fusion power plant, no energy was produced. When you modeled digestion and metabolism, no nutrients were consumed – no real digestion took place. So, when you modeled the human brain, why should you expect real thought to occur?” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're talking all things consciousness and simulated reality with Permutation City by Greg Egan. Classified as a hard science fiction novel, the book tells the story of a man who seeks to create immortality by creating "software" copies of the mind. We cover a wide range of topics including: <ul> <li>The complex nature of consciousness</li> <li>Egan's "Dust Theory"</li> <li>What it's like to live in a simulation</li> <li>Ethics surrounding death and dying</li> <li>The possibilities that come with computer intelligence</li> </ul> And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil</a>, and <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Adil</a> on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.gregegan.net/PERMUTATION/FAQ/FAQ.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Dust Theory</a> (3:51)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biocentrism_(ethics)#:~:text=Biocentrism%20(from%20Greek%20%CE%B2%CE%AF%CE%BF%CF%82%20bios,to%20its%20biosphere%20or%20biodiversity." rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Biocentrism</a> (7:37)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Junipero" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Black Mirror - San Junipero</a> (30:48)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Turing test</a> (35:52)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_(film)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Her</a> (39:08)</li> <li><a href="https://www.buildingasecondbrain.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Building a Second Brain</a> (1:07:05)</li> <li><a href="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3230854/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Expanse</a> (1:08:08)</li> <li><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SCVXyyUVKp645e3APGQPDskY0L-ki2FzFBJuTMh912c/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> ChatGPT Epilogue to Permutation City</a></li> </ul> Books Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3LUqvFV" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Godel Escher Bach</a> (0:42) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/godel-escher-bach-douglas-hofstadter" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3n64lpI" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Three-Body Problem</a> (0:58) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/the-three-body-problem-cixin-liu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3TC8QVe" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Beginning of Infinity</a> (16:42) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/beginning-of-infinity-david-deutsch" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3TuiKrH" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Egg</a> (19:27)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fable_of_the_Dragon-Tyrant" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Fable of the Dragon Tyrant</a> (24:26)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3lwpUPJ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Structure of Scientific Revolutions</a> (26:58)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3LD1SgI" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Where Is my Flying Car?</a> (27:13) </li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3n4NK5y" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Comfort Crisis</a> (30:20) </li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3Z7HYxb" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homo Deus</a> (44:41) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/notes/homo-deus-by-yuval-noah-harari" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Book Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3yQDwbx" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Altered Carbon</a> (53:41)</li> <li><a href="https://amzn.to/3yQaRnd" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Lessons of History</a> (1:02:26)</li> </ul> People Mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.gregegan.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Greg Egan</a> (3:54)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_C._Clarke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Arthur Clarke</a> (16:39)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Asimov" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Issac Asimov</a> (16:40)</li> <li><a href="https://andyweirauthor.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Andy Weir</a> (19:28)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Cixin" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Liu Cixin</a> (1:04:31)</li> </ul> Show Topics: (0:00) If you're a science fiction lover, this week's episode is for you! We’re discussing Permutation City, a 'hard science fiction' book from 1994. This book explores many concepts including The Dust Theory and achieving immortality through copying your consciousness. (4:24) Intro to Dust Theory. There are infinitely many universes existing at all space and time. As soon as a universe is perceived by a conscious intelligence, that universe comes to exist, and that universe will always continue to exist as long as there is consciousness to observe it. (8:11) Are we in a simulation? We learn in response to stimuli which is also how LLMs (large language models) learn too. (13:12) Nat, Neil, and Adil define consciousness, discuss the idea of transporting consciousness, and how we differ from LLMs. We have a private and inner mind that generates its own thoughts and feelings. We can't be certain whether computers have this or not. (22:01) There's an 'engine' in our heads that is focused on our survival and continuation. (23:21) Ethics surrounding death. One can argue that life is short, but when you've lived for thousands of years through copying your consciousness, it becomes a question of when it's enough. (28:39) If we could somehow prevent bodily decay and the death of our loved ones, would we ever be ready to die, and is aging something that we can slow down or affect?  (33:43) In the book, from the perspective of the humans, the copies are just programs who look intelligent, but they aren’t real. From the perspective of the copies, it’s all very real. (41:31) Time dilation and running consciousness slower for the copies. The slowdown doesn’t necessarily affect the copy. The time perception is still the same to them, but it may affect how they interact with the real world. (46:08) There's a baseline risk for being alive. You can try to get all of your life risks to zero, but it is best to accept that there will always be some general risk. (51:49) Collaboration in publishing. While most books have a single author, it may add some dimension to get expertise from guest authors with knowledge in different fields. (54:50) What did Greg Egan regret most about Permutation City?  (1:02:11) That concludes this episode! Stay tuned for our next episode on <a href="https://amzn.to/3LDQr8y" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">History of the Peloponnesian War</a>. Also on the horizon is <a href="https://www.amazon.com/The-Three-Body-Problem-audiobook/dp/B00P00QPPY?crid=21CDR1CGL1X0M&amp;keywords=The+Three-Body+Problem&amp;qid=1679345636&amp;sprefix=the+three-body+problem,aps,141&amp;sr=8-1&amp;linkCode=sl1&amp;tag=madethink-20&amp;linkId=467d2cb022ef402cdeda94c51177de43&amp;language=en_US&amp;ref_=as_li_ss_tl" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Three-Body Problem</a>. Make sure to pick up a copy if you'd like to read up before the episode. As mentioned, check out this awesome <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SCVXyyUVKp645e3APGQPDskY0L-ki2FzFBJuTMh912c/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> epilogue created by ChatGPT</a>! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

91: Digital Immortality: Permutation City

Made You Think is a podcast by Nat Eliason, Neil Soni, and Adil Majid where the hosts and their guests examine ideas that, as the name suggests, make you think. Episodes will explore books, essays, podcasts, and anything else that warrants further discussion, teaches something useful, or at the very least, exercises our brain muscles.

Great conversations on some of the most important books of today. It’s like a private book club. Found this, sub’d and listened to everything before realizing it hadn’t been updated in a year. Bring it back!

Please bring this back

Really enjoy hearing a younger thoughtful  perspective

Solid podcast

Made You Think

 “Order and chaos are the yang and yin of the famous Taoist symbol: two serpents, head to tail. Order is the white, masculine serpent; Chaos, its black, feminine counterpart. The black dot in the white—and the white in the black—indicate the possibility of transformation: just when things seem secure, the unknown can loom, unexpectedly and large. Conversely, just when everything seems lost, new order can emerge from catastrophe and chaos. For the Taoists, meaning is to be found on the border between the ever-entwined pair. To walk that border is to stay on the path of life, the divine Way. And that’s much better than happiness.” In this episode of Made You Think, Neil and I discuss​  12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos by Dr. Jordan B. Peterson. In his book, Peterson –a professor at the University of Toronto, and a practicing psychologist who has spent his life studying mythology psychology, religion and philosophy– writes about discipline, freedom, adventure, and responsibility, distilling the world’s wisdom into 12 practical and profound rules for life. "Winning at everything might only mean that you’re not doing anything new or difficult." We cover a wide range of topics, including:  Free speech and the nature of truth Why post-modernists are right… to an extent How to be a winning lobster Positive feedback loops and your own heaven and hell Why danger is important Appreciating the moment but planning for chaos  And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of  12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos by Dr. Jordan B. Peterson! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our episode on Antifragile by Nassim Nicholas Taleb, a book whose concepts will similarly change your outlook, as well as our episode on The Power of Myth, to further learn the power of mythology can be relevant to our everyday lives.   Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we're running, special events, and more.   Links from the Episode Mentioned in the show:  Peterson’s Patreon page [5:21]  C-16 Amendment to the Canadian Human Rights Bill [5:40] Interview with Peterson on Joe Rogan's podcast [06:23] Pareto distribution [13:21] Virtue Signalling [17:05] Positive Reinforcement Loop [30:20] Mushroom Coffee [31:28] Perfect Keto [31:28] Ship of Theseus [34:40]  Slaying the Dragon Within Us [38:35] Self Authoring [49:57] Growth Machine [54:21] Greatness All Around Us by Neil Soni [55:18] Space X’s Falcon Heavy [1:01:47]  Positive reinforcement training [1:13:55]  Voldemort Effect [1:19:11] Crony Beliefs Podcast by Kevin Simler [1:20:37] BlackRock [1:22:34] Columbine Killers [1:25:05] Puja [1:34:32] The Marshmallow Experiment [1:36:16] Cain and Abel [1:38:42] Entropy [1:48:47] Google’s Ideological Echo Chamber [1:58:20] The Office - TV Series [2:00:51] Dominance Hierarchy [2:05:16] Jumanji (2018) [2:07:39] Jordan Peterson on the Jocko Podcast [2:32:03]  Psychological Significance of Biblical Stories [2:32:13]    Books mentioned:   12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos by Dr. Jordan B. Peterson (Nat’s notes) (Neil’s notes)  The 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene [03:20] (Nat’s Notes)  Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief by Dr. Jordan B. Peterson [04:23]  Emergency by Neil Strauss [13:59] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode)  Seeing like a State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the Human Condition Have Failed by James C. Scott [16:12]  Gödel, Escher, Bach by Douglas R. Hofstadter [16:57] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode)  The Last Lion: Winston Spencer Churchill: Visions of Glory, 1874-1932 by William Manchester [1:00:20]  Steve Jobs by Walter Isaacson [1:02:58]  The Inner Game of Tennis [1:07:21] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode)  Letters from a Stoic by Lucius Annaeus Seneca [1:07:44] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode)  Principles: Life and Work by Ray Dalio [1:08:14] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode)  Work Clean by Dan Charnas [1:09:44] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode)  Antifragile by Nassim Nicholas Taleb [1:10:55] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode)  Finite and Infinite Games by James C. Carse [2:03:10] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode) Emoji Dick by Fred Benenson [2:28:53]  Skin in the Game: Hidden Asymmetries in Daily Life by Nassim Nicholas Taleb [2:29:43]    People mentioned:  Dr. Jordan B. Peterson, @jordanbpeterson Charles Darwin [09:30]  (Darwin’s Dangerous Idea episode) Jacques Derrida [10:22] Charles Murray [19:26] Nassim Nicholas Taleb [26:39] (Antifragile episode) Sam Harris [38:20] Dave Rubin [38:20] Winston Churchill [1:00:20] Elon Musk [1:01:47] (on this podcast) Jeff Bezos [1:01:47] Naval Ravikant [1:02:19] Steve Jobs [1:02:42] Lucius Annaeus Seneca [1:07:44] Carl Jung [1:09:13] Dan Charnas [1:09:48] Kevin Simler [1:21:25] Laurence Tosi, AirBnB’s ex-CFO [1:24:00] Karl Marx [1:40:20] Ray Dalio [1:43:39] (on this podcast) Robert Greene [1:43:47] (on this podcast) Daniel Tosh [2:01:53] Louis CK [2:01:53] Chris Rock [2:01:53] Alfred Adler [2:08:35] Sigmund Freud [2:08:35]    Show Topics 01:00 - The title of the book is misleading, and surprising if you know Peterson’s other work. But don’t judge a book by it’s cover, this is a very detailed and valuable work.   03:39 - Peterson is a practicing psychotherapist and also a lecturer. He’s has spent most of his life studying religion and mythology. 05:26 - Peterson’s notoriety because of his opposition to a bill in Canada that essentially makes calling somebody by the wrong gender pronoun a hate crime. He was opposed on the grounds of free speech and argues that you can’t compel anyone to use any specific word. 07:11 - Peterson fights against the post-modernist idea that nothing is true, everything is subjective. He believes that postmodernism has taken the idea of subjectivity and pushed it too far.   09:00 - Math is something we’ve discovered, not a human invention. Fundamental nature of numbers is unchanging. Argument linking math and logic to patriarchy and power.   11:14 - What is the goal of the postmodernists? If you continually tear down the hierarchy then at some point the oppressors become the oppressed.   12:41 - Communist China is what you get if you tear down an authority that is there due to the natural order. There will always be a Pareto distribution. If you try to perfectly level the playing field you end up with a controlling regime.   17:05 - Peterson is harsh against virtue signalling. Is the goal of most postmodernists just to 'look moral'?   18:11 - Science should not be ideology driven. It's still science. Nobody wants to talk about sex and race in terms of science. Charles Murray example where he researched IQ differences across different races. He proved there were differences and he's been treated as a bigot because of this.   22:50 - Peterson does a great job at maintaining what the science says about us as humans. What that means in what we should do in our day to day.   25:12 - The rules of the book come off as simple but there's a lot of rich material underneath them. The titles of the rules are there to remind you of the big idea, as easy to remember snippets.   27:03 - Rule 1: Stand Up Straight With Your Shoulders Back. How lobsters are similar to humans. How to look like a winner. Positive reinforcement loop. Head off depression.   31:28 - Sponsor. Hack your physio-psychological behavior by waking up at the same time every day and have breakfast. Get some mushroom coffee and keto from the MYT support page. Support the podcast and you'll become a winning lobster.   34:40 - Lobsters brain reaction when losing. All the cells in your body recycle every seven years. The ship of Theseus: if every cell in your body is different in seven years are you still the same person?   38:00 - Breaking out of the negative loop. Slaying the dragon within us. Problems get bigger until you acknowledge them.   40:16 - The subjective truth is still truth. Rules don't become useless because there is an exception to them. As Peterson says, the truth is fluid.   43:23 - Noah; predicting floods doesn't count, building arks does. If you get your house in order now, when total chaos comes, you'll be ready.   44:03 - Rule 2: Treat Yourself Like Someone You Are Responsible for Helping. Internal tyrant - we are too harsh on ourselves. The result is that we inevitably rebel. Our two selves end up hating each other.   45:48 - Prescriptions for medicine for pets gets filled much more frequently than medicine for humans. People better at taking care of their pets than they are of themselves.   47:57 - Think about what is good for you rather than what would make you happy. What might my life look like if I were caring for myself properly?   50:35 - Rule 3: Make Friends with People Who Want the Best for You. One bad apple spoils the bunch example.   51:30 - If you have friends who are obese or who smoke there is a higher chance you will become obese or start to smoke! Normalising effect, it's not bad it's just what everyone else is doing. You become the five people you spend the most time with. Be selective!   55:02 - If your friends do good, you do good. If you live in a place where there are a lot of people you don't want to be like, read more books, like Andrew Carnegie and Jay-Z.   1:00:29- Rule 4: Compare Yourself to Who You Were Yesterday, Not Who Someone Else is Today. Comparing to others is a fallacy, you always lose. No matter how far along you are you'll still have someone to be jealous of.   1:02:19 - Naval Ravikant: Being jealous of someone is really silly because you can't pick and choose parts of someone else's life. Steve Jobs was miserable, he never enjoyed his money.   1:03:50 - Sponsor. Take a shot of Kettle and Fire Bonebroth.   1:04:21 - Feeling good when you find something bad of someone who you are jealous. If you always win or always lose, it's no fun, but a video game at just the right difficulty is perfect. Similarly, comparing yourself to who you were yesterday is the perfect opponent.   1:07:44 - Seneca: Don't compare yourself to what others have, compare yourself to who you were before. Grand Theft Life! Control the machine, don't operate it.   1:09:19 - Most people don't find God because they don't search low enough. There's an ideal to reach for in everyday life.   1:09:48 - Daily practice is a version of God in the everyday and mundane. Gratefulness journal. Figure out what things make you feel better. Your emotional response. Dopamine and serotonin.   1:13:42 - Rule 5: Do Not Let Your Children Do Anything that Makes You Dislike Them.   1:13:55 - Positive reinforcement training. Attention as a currency of reward - effective reinforcement in humans. If you ignore people, they'll quickly understand that they shouldn't repeat whatever it was that made you ignore them. Beware of conversational one-upmanship.   1:16:43 - If someone does something you don't like, just tell them.   1:19:28 - People tie ideas to their identity and get offended. Some can't hold two competing ideas in their head at once. If you get emotional about an idea, that's generally a bad sign.   1:20:37 - Crony Beliefs. If you react to information with disgust or outrage that’s a sign that there's some belief you hold which is not based on logic and reasoning. In-group acceptance, virtue signalling, desire to be accepted.   1:24:18 - Trojan Horse strategy. A lot of hyper-feminist young men do it as a way to get in with women. Weasely.   1:25:05 - Rule 6: Set Your House in Perfect Order Before You Criticize the World. Columbine killers said the world is so bad, it shouldn't exist, they want to burn it all down and take everyone with them. All of us, on some level, have these impulses when things don't go right.   1:27:04 - Make your bed, create order and not chaos. Take ten minutes and get back to inbox zero. Part of your brain is latently working on it, so work on it yourself. Set aside times for worrying and forget it the rest of the time.   1:30:13 - Extreme ownership, don't worry about what anybody else did wrong or what other people could be doing, focus on what you can do. Don't rail against society. You have to recognise the monster within you in order to really be a good person.   1:32:14 - Floods are going to come, it's your fault for being unprepared. Just because something is unlikely doesn't mean you shouldn't have a plan in place.   1:34:08 - Rule 7: Pursue What is Meaningful (Not What is Expedient). The role of sacrifice in ancient societies.   1:35:09 - Preparing for the future. Giving up greater comfort now for something further down the line. Ceremonies as reminders.   1:36:14 - Kids who were able to hold off eating a marshmallow as they would get two later did better in future life. Delayed gratification. Sacrificing impulses leads to richer life.   1:38:42 - Cain and Abel. Sometimes sacrifices are rejected and we don’t know why. There’s wisdom in fairy tales. “Religion is the opiate of the masses”. Do what’s meaningful and not expedient.   1:42:14 - Rule 8: Tell the Truth, or at least Don’t Lie. Lean towards truth instead of trying to tell a story. Acknowledge the problem. Problems are often improved by simply talking.   1:43:39 - Dalio: An honest interpretation of the world is necessary. Robert Greene: Interpret the world honestly. We run from scary truths but knowing the truth is almost always better. If there’s a problem you’re not acknowledging, your brain interprets it as the sum of all the possible problems. Dragons or squirrels.   1:45:14- You can’t just tell the truth to other people, you also have to tell it to yourself. Entropy: things tend towards chaos. Things will go wrong if you don’t do anything about them. One state of order, infinite states of chaos. Do the dishes.   1:51:33 - Rule 9: Assume that the Person You Are Listening to Might Know Something You Don't. 3 categories of conversations: exchanging information; one-upmanship; mutual meditation. Figuring out what the map looks like.   1:54:36 - Most people can be interesting if prompted the right way and if you’re actually listening. Try saying something controversial. If you don’t talk about it, that encourages people not to talk about it. The tyranny of the minority. Be willing to offend people.   1:58:37 - Differences in interests between men and women. We have to be honest before we can talk about the implications of things. How we as conscious beings can recognize negative urges under the surface and still function in society.   2:00:46 - Part of the job of comedy is to be on the edge of order and chaos. They’ve found the line and they know how to walk it. They say what everyone is thinking! Playing with boundaries as Infinite players.   2:03:09 - Rule 10: Be Precise in Your Speech. Don’t mold your opinions to try to get approval from those around you. Be honest. Deal with that as it comes. Be open to being corrected.   2:04:28 - Rule 11: Do Not Bother Children when they are Skateboarding. Initially confusing. Danger has a value in teaching kids. Adult efforts to make children safer are often misguided. Let people fail.   2:06:15 - There will always be a dominance hierarchy. This danger and experimentation is how we find our place in it. How we expand in it. The hierarchy is a natural result of us testing ourselves. You can’t have equality and freedom. There are many different hierarchies.   2:06:54 - The pursuit of goals is what makes life meaningful. There is no reason to have goals if there’s nothing to win at. You can’t create meaning if you can’t strive for anything.   2:09:04 - Controversial topics that shouldn’t be. Use of personality as an excuse from taking care of yourself. Be healthy and make yourself more desirable. Removing danger is dangerous.   2:11:14 - We use our middle school years to figure out the rules of society. Two year-olds aren’t malicious, they’re just testing the limits.   2:12:28 - It’s important for men to be men. Women will find 85% of men below average in terms of attractiveness. To be attractive, be the best version of yourself you can be.   2:14:11- Life competence matters. There should be true rewards for success, and true consequences for failure. People need to be able to fail. Pain is useful.   2:15:36 - Peterson’s comments are tailor made to get taken out of context. Example of “women can find meaning in childbirth” and “the pay gap”.   2:17:29 - The game that we’re measuring when we measure income is just one game, and is not meaning for life. There are other places to find meaning. Women express alternative places they can derive meaning. Reverse societal pressure to say that some women are “too good” to want to raise a family.   2:21:36 - Sponsor. Perfect Keto pizza!.   2:22:08 - Women can win in men’s arenas. Men can’t win in what are typically considered women’s arenas. Men get flak for being in traditionally female roles (e.g. nurse, school teacher).   2:23:48 - Rule 12: Pet a Cat When You Encounter One on the Street. There are going to be a lot of horrible times in your life so when you get the opportunity to experience something good you should take it.   2:25:09 - Cats are the most perfect metaphor for nature, for being. They interact with humans but are not as fully domesticated as dogs are. If you pet a cat you’re getting an opportunity to appreciate being and nature. The dog will always run up to you and be happy to see you but that is not how reality is. Mutually assured non-destruction.   2:27:30 - Gratefulness. Appreciate a good cup of coffee or time with your family. Times are great right now but they won’t always be. Enjoy not being in chaos. Don’t be a turkey.   2:30:16 - Returning to chaos and order. We rise to the level of our training. Get into improving habits while the world is still in order.   2:32:13 - Don’t just sit at home watching YouTube, go and do something damnit! Is Peterson a heretic? He’s figured out how to monetize haters.   2:51:30 - Sponsors. Drink Mushroom Coffee from Four Sigmatic with cordyceps and chaga for evening working out. Go to Perfect Keto for your keto needs. Check Perfect Keto’s new liquid MCT oil good for pre-workout. Kettle on Fire’s Bone Broth is excellent to get back in your diet. Buy Jordan Peterson’s book and everything else using our  Amazon link. Leave a review on iTunes. Subscribe to the email list for bonus materials and more tangents. Tell people. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com

26: Fix Yourself First: 12 Rules for Life by Dr. Jordan B. Peterson

Robin Hanson

We, human beings, are a species that’s not only capable of acting on hidden motives—we’re designed to do it. Our brains are built to act in our self-interest while at the same time trying hard not to appear selfish in front of other people. And in order to throw them off the trail, our brains often keep “us,” our conscious minds, in the dark. The less we know of our own ugly motives, the easier it is to hide them from others. Self-deception is therefore strategic, a ploy our brains use to look good while behaving badly. In this episode of Made You Think, Neil and Nat discuss  The Elephant in the Brain Kevin Simler and Robin Hanson. In this book the authors dig into the true motives that drive our decisions and behaviors. We cover a wide range of topics, including:  Being selfish without noticing it Outsmarting other humans Gossiping, signalling and laughing The truth about Rolex watches (and is not about time precision) Metrics used to measure a charity effectiveness Mona Lisa conspiracy theories  And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of  The Elephant in the Brain Kevin Simler and Robin Hanson! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our episode on  What Every Body is Saying by Joe Navarro, a cited book that explains the true language of our body, as well as our episode on  Discipline and Punish by Michel Foucault, another book that talk about different types of signalling. Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we're running, special events, and more. Links from the Episode Mentioned in the show   The Redistribution of Sex -  Robin Hanson’s Tweet [1:18]  Jordan Peterson about the Toronto school shooter [2:00]  Chinese app to watch attractive women [3:18] PornHub [3:35] Melting Asphalt – Kevin Simler’s Blog [4:20] PayPal Mafia [23:40] Spotlight Effect [24:26] Bret Weinstein &amp; Heather Heying on the Joe Rogan Experience - hot vs beautiful [30:25] Game of Thrones [40:40] Uber [4224] Bill Simmons Podcast [47:33] Game of Chicken [47:55] Birchbox [57:01] Superbad film [1:06:48]  Harvard students case publishing offensive memes in a private Facebook group [1:10:02] Buzzfeed [1:25:00] Pavlovian Theory [1:29:57]  Mona Lisa ashes vs replica [1:35:14] Against Malaria Foundation [1:40:07] Good Street [1:41:14] Effective Altruism [1:42:04] Give Well [1:42:09] Red Cross [1:46:30] Susan G Komen Charity [1:46:50] United Way [1:47:30]  Books mentioned   The Elephant in the Brain Kevin Simler and Robin Hanson (Nat’s notes)  Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari [6:56] (Nat’s notes) (book episode  part 1 &amp;  part 2)  Homo Deus by Yuval Harari [6:56] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  Daily Rituals by Mason Currey [7:47] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  Chimpanzee Politics [14:20]  12 Rules for Life by Dr. Jordan B. Peterson [24:14] (Nat’s notes) (Neil’s notes) (book episode) Lying by Sam Harris [38:18]  Switch by Chip and Dan Heath [40:26] Lord of the Rings [40:40]  What Every Body is saying by Joe Navarro [1:03:20] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  The Sovereign Individual by James Dale Davidson [1:21:50] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  Gödel, Escher, Bach by Douglas R. Hofstadter [1:25:14] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  Antifragile by Nassim Taleb [1:25:14] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  Discipline and Punish by Michel Foucault [1:53:02] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)    People mentioned  Kevin Simler Robin Hanson Jordan B. Peterson [] (on Twitter) (12 Rules episode) Adil Majid [38:29] (Crypto episode) Sean Spicer [54:00] Donald Trump [54:00] Ronaldinho [1:13:37] Geoffrey Miller [1:33:53] Alex Jones [1:39:21] Nassim Nicholas Taleb [1:49:11] (Antifragile episode) (Skin in the Game episode)  Show Topics 4:50 – “Elephant in the brain, n. An important but unacknowledged feature of how our minds work; an introspective taboo”. Is there a survival advantage to not being too much introspective? Pros and cons of meditation. Stated reasons for doing things when we interact with other people. The effect of open offices, cafes and music on Neil. 9:17 – Underlying motives of our actions. Figuring out other people: what's making them tick? Example: parents who believe that college is a good idea for their kids, once they already paid. Starting a bitcoin mining company to pay studies at CMU. 11:41 – Thesis outline: we all have selfish modisms. However:  People are judging us all the time. Because they are judging we are eager to look good. It’s better if we don’t show our selfishness. This applies not just to our words, but also to our thoughts. In some areas of life, especially polarized ones like politics, we’re quick to point out when others’ motives are more selfish than they claim. But in other areas, like medicine, we prefer to believe that almost all of us have pretty motives.  12:51 – #1 Animal Behavior. Biological social reasons for selfish modisms. Social grooming. The monkeys example: they over spend grooming others, much more than really needed and they'll fight to groom the higher rank monkeys. Analogies with employees in the corporate context. We do things that on the surface look pro social, but in reality we are just looking to increase our social standing. Altruistic behavior is not quite what it seems. 15:18 – Altruistic babblers example: these birds work to earn “prestige” in their community. Prestige will give them more mating opportunities. Analogies with student and religious groups. Knowledge suppression: we hide our big motivators from ourselves because other people are better at reading to our intentions. For example we can read bad sellers. 19:06 – #2 Competition. We are more selfish than we let ourselves think. Evolution first was about competition with the environment. Since we outsmarted other animals, we evolve to outsmart other humans. Unconsciously we try to increase our elements of social status: dominance (intimidate others) and prestige (being an impressive human being). 23:04 – Envy. “But the prestige-seeking itself is more nearly a zero-sum game, which helps explain why we sometimes feel pangs of envy at even a close friend’s success”. Signalling. The most honest signals are expensive. Nowadays being in shape is more expensive than being fat. Facebook and Instagram as tools for signalling. The King and the whisperer. 26:46 – Deceiving signals. Digital Nomads showing off while not being able to support themselves in the US. Behaviors that can be explained by competitive signalling. Luxury consumption is our version of the peacock tail. No one buys a Rolex to tell the time. There is sexual sense to men paying for the first meal on a date. Hot vs Beautiful: most products are advertised to make women hotter than attractive, and that may be a cause of unhappiness. 33:21 – #3 Norms. Gossiping and reputation. Gossip is to tell our group other people is not following norms. We lose reputation when others gossip of us. Gossip is cross cultural, and it seems to exist to enforce reputations and norms. Useful and harmful gossiping. Gossiping as valuable recommendations of people to employ and work with. 37:27 – Gossip are learned behavior or inherited genetics? Gossiping to get attention. Arguments that telling small lies in front of friends erodes your reputation and trust. Telling small lies to ourselves to prove ourselves an action we took. Analogies to the book: Chip &amp; Dan’s elephant and the writer in Switch, Plato’s horses and the chariot driver. 41:01 – #4 Cheating. In order to cheat people, we need to be able to hide our intentions because we are good at sniffing out cheaters. Drinking in public, hiding the bottle in brown paper bags. Pipes and vape pens for... tobacco? Finding ways to encourage good behavior that one wouldn't do otherwise. Recycling. 44:09 – Tangent. Danish study on grocery bags: plastic bags beat paper bags 40 to 1. Electric cars CO2 impact much larger than gas cars. 47:53 – #5 Self Deception. Convincing others that you had sabotaged yourself, and the best way to convince someone for something is for you to actually believe it. Iran’s nuclear deal with the US. North Korea wanting to be taken seriously. Looking like the mad man in town. Closing or degrading a channel communication. Strategic ignorance. Avoid looking at kidnappers face. 52:02 – #6 Counterfeit Reasons. We make up reasons to explain why we do things or why we want things. Split brain patients test. Narrative fallacy. Making up reasons to deny a disability. Press secretary. Sean Spiner on the podium trying to explain Trump's decisions. We accentuate and exaggerate our pro-social motives and downplay our ugly selfish ones. 55:32 – Sponsor! Scentbird. Monthly subscription for premium perfumes and colognes, delivered at your door in convenient packaging for only $15/mo! Avoid the weird and bulky shapes of perfume bottles. Scentbird has a very compact and handy rechargeable cartridge system. Neil is using Dolce &amp; Gabbana’s Light Blue which is very summery. Nat buyed Gin by Commodity, Bergamote by Commodity, and Encens by Rag &amp; Bone. Use our code to get 50% off the first month. Neil is drinking Milk Oolong from Cup &amp; Leaf Tea (a tea that tastes milky but doesn’t have milk!). You can reinfuse Oolong up to 5 times! Try it iced too. Cup &amp; Leaf will give a 10%  lifetime discount to its first 100 customers. The Cream Earl Grey is great too. Replace-your-coffee and MYT kits coming soon. 1:03:11 – #7 Hidden motives in everyday life. Body Language. Cue is like a signal but it only provides value to the receiver. Catching cues reading other people while playing poker. Eye contact ratio while speaking and listening is a sign dominance. 1:06:12 – #8 Laughter. “We laugh far more often in social settings than when we’re alone—30 times more often”. Laughter is a social way of initiating play with each other. Flirting with the edges of acceptable behavior. Comedians can talk things in ways no one else can talk in public. Laughing seems to come from an instinct. Great apes laugh too. Oscar Wilde said, “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh; otherwise they’ll kill you”. Making offensive statements in a playful manner with friends. 1:11:39 – Theory that laughter relieves nervous energy. Comedians make jokes about things they really don't believe, but many people extrapolates them wrongly. Laughter to test relationships with new people. Argument that humor normalizes bad behavior. Rape jokes. Jokes in the wrong audience. 1:22:49 – #9 Conversation. Conversation is not primarily an exchange of information, but mainly we do it to prove we are a reliable and good source of information. The backpack full of tools analogy. Reading and curiosity. Staying on topic, but not repeating ourselves. 1:27:43 – #10 Consumption. We buy things to look good. Prius example: it was designed ugly on purpose. Lifestyle ads. Corona beer theories: the first, Pavlovian, associating Corona and the beach, the second, one would buy Corona worrying about what others may associate the brand with. Super Bowl ads. BMW have to show their ads to poor people as well, so rich people associate the brand with luxury. Car ads reinforcing owners' believes. Products can be marketed for utility or lifestyle. Guinness and Budweiser have the same amount of calories, but they are marketed and perceived differently (surprisingly, Guinness is very keto-friendly). 1:33:33 – #11 Art. We find waste sexually attractive, because wasting resources is kind of a proof of wealth. People that hold a group in conversation are attractive. We tend to value art because we associate effort and skill with it. Mona Lisa's ashes and replicas survey. Is it the real Mona Lisa in the Louvre? Motivations behind mass shooters. Dinosaurs bones in museums. Conspiracies. 1:39:54 – #12 Charity. People donate in very inefficient ways. Donating for malaria vs high schools. Ivy League schools as hedge funds with an educational side. Comparing malaria deaths with other diseases that lower the quality of life. Is it dollar-to-lifes the best metric to look at when donating? The problem with Red Cross and other famous non-profits. Hollywood movies as non-profits. 1:49:34 – #13 Education. Kids don't learn much in class compared to unschooled ones. National GDP does not rise with education, but individual earning does. School seems more a filtering mechanism where, if you graduate from Harvard it doesn't mean you learned a ton but that you survived it. School as domestication. The most performant students are those more domesticated. 1:52:08 – Required attendance shows that the teacher is insecure of being interesting. Learning topics through other mediums than class subjects. School is more a signalling tool to show conformity to society and employment. For parents, it's a tool to brag that “made it”. School may be useful from a network standpoint. Why we haven't franchised the Ivy League. 2:01:54 – #14 Medicine. We get much more medicine than we need mostly as a way to show we take care of each other. Medicine is great for saving lives, but doesn't perform well on life and quality of life extension. 2:03:21 – #15 Religion. Proving you are a member of the community by sacrificing part of your freedom, time, resources and even identity. 2:04:10 – #16 Politics. We often vote to show loyalty to a community. You’d better don't want everyone to participate in an election, especially if they'll vote the opposite candidate you'll vote. Cheering for your party, as in sports.   2:06:31 – #17 Conclusion. It's easy to spot others doing it, it's difficult to pick up ourselves doing it. “The biggest lesson from Part I is that we ignore the elephant because doing so is strategic. Self-deception allows us to act selfishly without having to appear quite so selfish in front of others. We have a gaping blind spot at the very center of our introspective vision. If we’re going to second-guess our coworkers and friends, we shouldn’t give ourselves an easy pass. In fact, knowing about our own blind spots should make us even more careful when pointing fingers at others”. 2:07:56 – Support us by buying the book through our Amazon affiliate link. Support us by buying stuff from our sponsors, Perfect Keto for all your keto diet needs, Kettle &amp; Fire for grass fed bone broth, Four Sigmatic for delicious mushroom coffee and other low caffeine drinks. If you enjoyed this episode and want to read along with us, don’t forget to subscribe at https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com

41: Hidden Motives in Everyday Life. The Elephant in the Brain by Kevin Simler and Robin Hanson

50: Your Fate Belongs to You. The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus

Terence McKenna

If psychedelics are one thing we can all agree on, is that it will make a lot of people happy. There's a lot of people who could use a heavy dose of psychedelics to stop being angry. There's something about stepping outside of yourself and even up the reality that comes with these types of experiences that is getting even more useful in a culture that is becoming even more obsessed with the day to day and itself. In this episode of Made You Think, Nat and Mansal Denton talk about  Food of the Gods by Terence McKenna. This is a fun book episode about Terence McKenna’s take on psychedelics. First of which is that because mushrooms or “shrooms” basically grow faster in Caledon it leads us to see respect and certain religious adoration towards animals and lastly, that psychedelics are originators of religion. We cover a wide range of topics, including:  What are psychedelics and its misconceptions How the society take these substances into account Why animals seem keen into psychedelics How psychedelic substances are lowering the floodgates of one’s experience Terence McKenna’s TWO ideas on psychedelics How religion coincided with psychedelics Mansal’s authentic Ayahuasca experience and the hunt for a good Shaman  And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of  Food of the Gods by Terence McKenna! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our episode on Smoke Signals by Martin A. Lee, a book about the history of marijuana and the war on drugs in the US. Check also The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell that talks about the origin of religions. Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we’re running, special events, and more. Links from the Episode Mentioned in the show  Nootropedia [1:28] Nootropics [1:35] Psychedelics [1:39] OYASIN [1:46] Psilocybin mushroom/Magic Mushrooms “Shrooms” [4:28]  MDMA for PTSD [4:30] DMT [11:43] Ayahuasca [11:59] Chacruna Leaves [13:37] N,N-DMT [13:49] 5-MeO-DMT [14:00] LSD [15:39]  Stoned Ape Theory [16:20] Dominator culture [31:38] Marijuana [32:17] Vape [34:30] MAOI [36:01] Nicotine gum [36:43] Juul Vapes [37:00] Hamilton’s Pharmacopeia [38:21] Soylent [39:07] Polio [41:12] Opium [41:21] Ibogaine [44:29] Iboga [44:51] Burning Bush [49:40] Amanita Muscaria Mushroom [50:21] Aztec [54:31] Sweat Lodge Ceremony [55:06] Kundalini yoga [57:43]  Ayahuasca Shaman [1:00:00]    Books mentioned   Food of the Gods by Terence McKenna  How To Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan [4:15]  The Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley [18:23]  People mentioned  Mansal Denton [0:33] Michael Pollan [4:15] Trump [8:15] Nixon [9:58] Timothy Leary [10:07] Dennis McKenna [17:07] Albert Hoffman [17:46] Ram Dass [17:56] Aldous Huxley [18:21] Hamilton Morris [38:21] Dr. Dan Engle [47:30]  Jesus on Psychedelics [49:45]  Santa Claus on Psychedelics [50:07]  Show Topics 1:25 - Mansal Denton is the co-host for today’s episode! He has recently left an organization called Nootropedia, where his whole focus was helping people optimize their mental performance using nootropics. He found that some of the best nootropics were psychedelics and from that path he moved into another organization called Oyasin, which is a lifestyle brand reharmonizing people with the natural world. A high-level view of what he's interested right now: he believes that all of the external problems in the world are a manifestation of what's going on in our minds collectively at the society and that psychedelics can be a powerful tool to solve what's going on in our minds. He thinks that transformational or peak experiences are things that we all crave and could help change our perspectives someway. 4:00 - Interesting shift of perspective in society about Psychedelics and plant medicines. “How To Change your Mind” by Michael Pollan is a great influence to this. Some of the kinds of psychedelics are Silicide, Magic Mushrooms, and MDMA for PTSD. It is so compelling and helpful for PTSD. 6:25 - If psychedelics are one thing we can all agree on then it will make a lot of people happy. There's a lot of people who could use a heavy dose of psychedelics to stop being angry. There's something about stepping outside of yourself and even up the reality that comes with this types of experiences that is getting even more useful in a culture that is becoming even more obsessed with the day to day and itself. Imaginary world which is everything in the internet, a reality that doesn’t exist in a physical way. Recreating our relationship with our internal map is something everyone can benefit from, like meditation, like a recognition of something lost. 7:55 - Society's take on psychedelics. Safety and inherent risks with these substances despite its legality in some places. Be smart. In today’s generations, there are negative responses to these plant medicines. War on drugs has done injustice to psychedelics. 10:54 - What kinds of drugs people are comfortable taking and which ones they aren't. Coffee, alcohol, tobacco, and aspirin are drugs all of us use that alter our daily experience. 12:00 - Drugs and hunting. Drugs and animals. Ayahuasca doses given to dogs for more effective hunting today in the jungle. Which plants are mixed with Ayahuasca. There’s an archaeological evidence that people were making ayahuasca thousands of years ago. 14:42 - McKenna’s Hypothesis: hallucinogenic compounds may have actually had influence in developing our own self-reflective abilities. DMT vs LSD trips. Stoned Ape Theory. 18:16 - Brain as primarily a filtering tool. Idea that the brain functions not to understand our environment but to filter out all of the less important noise from The Doors of Perception. Consciousness as a subtractive process, not an additive. Psychedelic substances are lowering the floodgates of one’s experience to open your senses to everything that’s going on in your environment that you’re normally unaware of. Examples: appreciating trees, books you never heard of and hearing it a lot of times after within a week. There is some part of your brain that becomes receptive to that specific thing. 20:57 - Research on the brain about finding truth and logic in certain aspects of life are actually developed more with the intention on how can you create truth to make others believe. Humans are actually social animals. Our brain may not be interpreting actual reality rather it is interpreting reality socially. Elements of stimuli not normally present in our normal consciousness. 22:20 - Why animals seem interested in psychedelics. There’s some element in psychedelics that’s completely pressing reset in our consciousness that almost every species can benefit from. It’s actually an evolutionary disadvantage for animals to be tripping but all animals have habitual patterns which are sometimes helpful and sometimes not. Having these patterns interrupts allowed animals to change habits that proved to be more advantageous. Animals know how to micro-dose psychedelics. The higher the dose of LSD the more tolerant you become. 25:53 - Intention VS. External Environment. Psychedelics can be powerful tools or just for recreational use. Retreats for self-reflection. McKenna says there’s a stigma against taking drugs or substances alone. Respectful use in productive settings and not in rave parties. Taking it on your own makes more valuable experiences. When with somebody, sometimes the ideas come from all over the place and it’s hard to have coherent conversations when you are tripping. It is important to identify what’s the intention to take psychedelics, ex. to escape reality or to explore and reflect or connect. It’s harder to be locked into a monotonous routine that you hate if you’re having these psychedelics driven wake ups every few months. 31:38 - Legal drugs fits in the Dominator Culture. How would work, life, and environment be changed if people had access to psychedelics. We’re seeing it a little bit with Marijuana, as it becomes more and more legalized. It will always depend on the intentions. Stimulants and alcohol fall in the legal drugs category. A lot of these drug compounds create a baseline that is manageable. Psychedelics create peak experiences. There’s so much value in doing both in a regular basis. 34:30 - Why is Nicotine addictive? Nicotine itself is not actually a dangerous chemical, cigarettes are. If you’re smoking pure tobacco, that’s probably safe. Vapes are intense smoking administration method. Nicotine is only addictive when it is combined with MAOI. Hamilton’s Pharmacopeia on MAOI Inhibitors. 39:39 - How people seem to believe that Science and Rationality are the new god. Science is great but incomplete and can get things wrong like drugs with side effects. Drugs that you can do while going to work or do more work are okay while drugs that you would have to relax in the process aren’t okay, for instance, Marijuana. The term “Marijuana”. The propaganda on Mexicans and Blacks liking to get high to not do work and then attack people as racism. 43:07 - Empathy is so heightened in psychedelics - you start to feel this sense of protection for the earth. Michael Pollan’s take on psychedelics relating to modern environmental movement came predominantly out of psychedelic experiences in the 60’s and 70’s. 44:27- Ibogaine experience. Effects of Ibogaine. There are so many great applications of Iboga but high doses can harm the ones with heart conditions. It can cure addiction, like alcoholism, as well. Ayahuasca has similar effects, generally less statistically significant than Iboga. You can find Ayahuasca, LSD or mushrooms even in the US. Iboga it’s not something you mess around with on your own. Where do people do or take Iboga? 48:07 - Mckenna’s Idea that because mushrooms grow faster in Caledon we see respect and certain religious adoration towards cows in some eastern religions. A lot of religious and cultural texts have similarities, plausible stories of psychedelics being involved. Was Jesus the effect of collective consumption of psychedelics? Psychedelics are so mind-altering, great substances to help humans write down the myths. 51:13 - McKenna’s Idea that psychedelics are originators of religion. In doing them, you experience many of the same feelings and sense of connection and visual experiences of some of what you might see in religious texts. Experience on DMT. McKenna says, “God is not an idea. God is a lost continent in the human mind”. Divinity schools will agree that psychedelics can reliably create mystical experiences and connect to a Higher Power. Ayahuasca sessions and spiritual connection. Aztec religion takes Silicide mushrooms as flesh of the Gods. 55:06 - What kind of Higher Power you’re relating with -- Nature, External, or Ephemeral? Spirituality is very personal. You cannot really explain it but just feel it. The importance of doing deep multi-experience retreats is that you get to connect to a higher power. Mansal’s Kundalini yoga experience. Sweat lodge ceremony. 1:00:15 - How to find a good Shaman and the authentic Ayahuasca experience. Mansal’s recommendation is find referrals, but you don’t need necessarily to travel Peru. For newbies, it’s best to take Ayahuasca with a Shaman to keep you safe. In his hunting experiences, Mansal finds it valuable to do psychedelics before &amp; after hunting yet never during the hunting. 1:05:50 - How to get connected with Mansal IG: @mansaldenton and grab Mansal’s email listening to the episode. Reach Nat on Twitter @Nat Eliason (@nateliason) and let him know what you are yours thoughts about the book and the episode. Leave us a review on  iTunes and let your friends know about it. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com

If psychedelics are one thing we can all agree on, is that it will make a lot of people happy. There's a lot of people who could use a heavy dose of psychedelics to stop being angry. There's something about stepping outside of yourself and even up the reality that comes with these types of experiences that is getting even more useful in a culture that is becoming even more obsessed with the day to day and itself. In this episode of Made You Think, Nat and Mansal Denton talk about <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Food-Gods-Original-Knowledge-Evolution/dp/0553371304/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Food of the Gods by Terence McKenna</a>. This is a fun book episode about Terence McKenna’s take on psychedelics. First of which is that because mushrooms or “shrooms” basically grow faster in Caledon it leads us to see respect and certain religious adoration towards animals and lastly, that psychedelics are originators of religion. We cover a wide range of topics, including: <ul> <li>What are psychedelics and its misconceptions</li> <li>How the society take these substances into account</li> <li>Why animals seem keen into psychedelics</li> <li>How psychedelic substances are lowering the floodgates of one’s experience</li> <li>Terence McKenna’s TWO ideas on psychedelics</li> <li>How religion coincided with psychedelics</li> <li>Mansal’s authentic Ayahuasca experience and the hunt for a good Shaman</li> </ul> And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Food-Gods-Original-Knowledge-Evolution/dp/0553371304/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Food of the Gods by Terence McKenna</a>! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our episode on <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/smoke-signals-by-martin-a-lee/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Smoke Signals by Martin A. Lee</a>, a book about the history of marijuana and the war on drugs in the US. Check also <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/power-myth-joseph-campbell/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell</a> that talks about the origin of religions. Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we’re running, special events, and more. Links from the Episode Mentioned in the show <ul> <li><a href="https://www.nootropedia.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nootropedia</a> [1:28]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nootropic" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nootropics</a> [1:35]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_drug" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Psychedelics</a> [1:39]</li> <li><a href="https://oyasin.io/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">OYASIN</a> [1:46]</li> <li><a href="https://thethirdwave.co/psychedelics/shrooms/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Psilocybin mushroom/Magic Mushrooms “Shrooms”</a> [4:28]</li> <li><a href="https://psychopharmacologyinstitute.com/clinical-psychiatry/ptsd/the-use-of-mdma-for-ptsd/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> MDMA for PTSD</a> [4:30]</li> <li><a href="https://thethirdwave.co/psychedelics/dmt/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">DMT</a> [11:43]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ayahuasca</a> [11:59]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotria_viridis" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Chacruna Leaves</a> [13:37]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N,N-Dimethyltryptamine" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">N,N-DMT</a> [13:49]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-MeO-DMT" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">5-MeO-DMT</a> [14:00]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">LSD</a> [15:39]</li> <li><a href="https://truththeory.com/2015/07/15/stoned-ape-theory-a-unique-theory-of-human-evolution/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Stoned Ape Theory</a> [16:20]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominator_culture" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Dominator culture</a> [31:38]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_(drug)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Marijuana</a> [32:17]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporizer_(inhalation_device)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Vape</a> [34:30]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_inhibitor" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">MAOI</a> [36:01]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine_gum" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nicotine gum</a> [36:43]</li> <li><a href="https://www.juul.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Juul Vapes</a> [37:00]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton%27s_Pharmacopeia" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Hamilton’s Pharmacopeia</a> [38:21]</li> <li><a href="https://soylent.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Soylent</a> [39:07]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliomyelitis" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Polio</a> [41:12]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Opium</a> [41:21]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ibogaine</a> [44:29]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabernanthe_iboga" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Iboga</a> [44:51]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_bush" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Burning Bush</a> [49:40]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita_muscaria" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Amanita Muscaria Mushroom</a> [50:21]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztecs" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Aztec</a> [54:31]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweat_lodge" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Sweat Lodge Ceremony</a> [55:06]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini_yoga" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kundalini yoga</a> [57:43]</li> <li><a href="https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ayahuasca-information-shaman_us_55f8a179e4b0b48f670121a7" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Ayahuasca Shaman</a> [1:00:00]  </li> </ul> Books mentioned <ul> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Food-Gods-Original-Knowledge-Evolution/dp/0553371304/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Food of the Gods by Terence McKenna</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Change-Your-Mind-Consciousness-Transcendence/dp/1594204225/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> How To Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan</a> [4:15]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Doors-Perception-Heaven-Thinking-Classics/dp/1907590099/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley</a> [18:23]</li> </ul> People mentioned <ul> <li><a href="https://www.instagram.com/mansaldenton/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Mansal Denton</a> [0:33]</li> <li><a href="https://michaelpollan.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Michael Pollan</a> [4:15]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Trump</a> [8:15]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Nixon" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nixon</a> [9:58]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Leary" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Timothy Leary</a> [10:07]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_McKenna" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Dennis McKenna</a> [17:07]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Hofmann" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Albert Hoffman</a> [17:46]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Dass" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ram Dass</a> [17:56]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldous_Huxley" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Aldous Huxley</a> [18:21]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_Morris" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Hamilton Morris</a> [38:21]</li> <li><a href="https://drdanengle.com/about-dr-dan-engle/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Dr. Dan Engle</a> [47:30]</li> <li><a href="https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/psychedelic-jesus.196768/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Jesus on Psychedelics</a> [49:45]</li> <li><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/21/opinion/santa-christmas-mushrooms.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Santa Claus on Psychedelics</a> [50:07]</li> </ul> Show Topics 1:25 - Mansal Denton is the co-host for today’s episode! He has recently left an organization called Nootropedia, where his whole focus was helping people optimize their mental performance using nootropics. He found that some of the best nootropics were psychedelics and from that path he moved into another organization called Oyasin, which is a lifestyle brand reharmonizing people with the natural world. A high-level view of what he's interested right now: he believes that all of the external problems in the world are a manifestation of what's going on in our minds collectively at the society and that psychedelics can be a powerful tool to solve what's going on in our minds. He thinks that transformational or peak experiences are things that we all crave and could help change our perspectives someway. 4:00 - Interesting shift of perspective in society about Psychedelics and plant medicines. “How To Change your Mind” by Michael Pollan is a great influence to this. Some of the kinds of psychedelics are Silicide, Magic Mushrooms, and MDMA for PTSD. It is so compelling and helpful for PTSD. 6:25 - If psychedelics are one thing we can all agree on then it will make a lot of people happy. There's a lot of people who could use a heavy dose of psychedelics to stop being angry. There's something about stepping outside of yourself and even up the reality that comes with this types of experiences that is getting even more useful in a culture that is becoming even more obsessed with the day to day and itself. Imaginary world which is everything in the internet, a reality that doesn’t exist in a physical way. Recreating our relationship with our internal map is something everyone can benefit from, like meditation, like a recognition of something lost. 7:55 - Society's take on psychedelics. Safety and inherent risks with these substances despite its legality in some places. Be smart. In today’s generations, there are negative responses to these plant medicines. War on drugs has done injustice to psychedelics. 10:54 - What kinds of drugs people are comfortable taking and which ones they aren't. Coffee, alcohol, tobacco, and aspirin are drugs all of us use that alter our daily experience. 12:00 - Drugs and hunting. Drugs and animals. Ayahuasca doses given to dogs for more effective hunting today in the jungle. Which plants are mixed with Ayahuasca. There’s an archaeological evidence that people were making ayahuasca thousands of years ago. 14:42 - McKenna’s Hypothesis: hallucinogenic compounds may have actually had influence in developing our own self-reflective abilities. DMT vs LSD trips. Stoned Ape Theory. 18:16 - Brain as primarily a filtering tool. Idea that the brain functions not to understand our environment but to filter out all of the less important noise from The Doors of Perception. Consciousness as a subtractive process, not an additive. Psychedelic substances are lowering the floodgates of one’s experience to open your senses to everything that’s going on in your environment that you’re normally unaware of. Examples: appreciating trees, books you never heard of and hearing it a lot of times after within a week. There is some part of your brain that becomes receptive to that specific thing. 20:57 - Research on the brain about finding truth and logic in certain aspects of life are actually developed more with the intention on how can you create truth to make others believe. Humans are actually social animals. Our brain may not be interpreting actual reality rather it is interpreting reality socially. Elements of stimuli not normally present in our normal consciousness. 22:20 - Why animals seem interested in psychedelics. There’s some element in psychedelics that’s completely pressing reset in our consciousness that almost every species can benefit from. It’s actually an evolutionary disadvantage for animals to be tripping but all animals have habitual patterns which are sometimes helpful and sometimes not. Having these patterns interrupts allowed animals to change habits that proved to be more advantageous. Animals know how to micro-dose psychedelics. The higher the dose of LSD the more tolerant you become. 25:53 - Intention VS. External Environment. Psychedelics can be powerful tools or just for recreational use. Retreats for self-reflection. McKenna says there’s a stigma against taking drugs or substances alone. Respectful use in productive settings and not in rave parties. Taking it on your own makes more valuable experiences. When with somebody, sometimes the ideas come from all over the place and it’s hard to have coherent conversations when you are tripping. It is important to identify what’s the intention to take psychedelics, ex. to escape reality or to explore and reflect or connect. It’s harder to be locked into a monotonous routine that you hate if you’re having these psychedelics driven wake ups every few months. 31:38 - Legal drugs fits in the Dominator Culture. How would work, life, and environment be changed if people had access to psychedelics. We’re seeing it a little bit with Marijuana, as it becomes more and more legalized. It will always depend on the intentions. Stimulants and alcohol fall in the legal drugs category. A lot of these drug compounds create a baseline that is manageable. Psychedelics create peak experiences. There’s so much value in doing both in a regular basis. 34:30 - Why is Nicotine addictive? Nicotine itself is not actually a dangerous chemical, cigarettes are. If you’re smoking pure tobacco, that’s probably safe. Vapes are intense smoking administration method. Nicotine is only addictive when it is combined with MAOI. Hamilton’s Pharmacopeia on MAOI Inhibitors. 39:39 - How people seem to believe that Science and Rationality are the new god. Science is great but incomplete and can get things wrong like drugs with side effects. Drugs that you can do while going to work or do more work are okay while drugs that you would have to relax in the process aren’t okay, for instance, Marijuana. The term “Marijuana”. The propaganda on Mexicans and Blacks liking to get high to not do work and then attack people as racism. 43:07 - Empathy is so heightened in psychedelics - you start to feel this sense of protection for the earth. Michael Pollan’s take on psychedelics relating to modern environmental movement came predominantly out of psychedelic experiences in the 60’s and 70’s. 44:27- Ibogaine experience. Effects of Ibogaine. There are so many great applications of Iboga but high doses can harm the ones with heart conditions. It can cure addiction, like alcoholism, as well. Ayahuasca has similar effects, generally less statistically significant than Iboga. You can find Ayahuasca, LSD or mushrooms even in the US. Iboga it’s not something you mess around with on your own. Where do people do or take Iboga? 48:07 - Mckenna’s Idea that because mushrooms grow faster in Caledon we see respect and certain religious adoration towards cows in some eastern religions. A lot of religious and cultural texts have similarities, plausible stories of psychedelics being involved. Was Jesus the effect of collective consumption of psychedelics? Psychedelics are so mind-altering, great substances to help humans write down the myths. 51:13 - McKenna’s Idea that psychedelics are originators of religion. In doing them, you experience many of the same feelings and sense of connection and visual experiences of some of what you might see in religious texts. Experience on DMT. McKenna says, “God is not an idea. God is a lost continent in the human mind”. Divinity schools will agree that psychedelics can reliably create mystical experiences and connect to a Higher Power. Ayahuasca sessions and spiritual connection. Aztec religion takes Silicide mushrooms as flesh of the Gods. 55:06 - What kind of Higher Power you’re relating with -- Nature, External, or Ephemeral? Spirituality is very personal. You cannot really explain it but just feel it. The importance of doing deep multi-experience retreats is that you get to connect to a higher power. Mansal’s Kundalini yoga experience. Sweat lodge ceremony. 1:00:15 - How to find a good Shaman and the authentic Ayahuasca experience. Mansal’s recommendation is find referrals, but you don’t need necessarily to travel Peru. For newbies, it’s best to take Ayahuasca with a Shaman to keep you safe. In his hunting experiences, Mansal finds it valuable to do psychedelics before &amp; after hunting yet never during the hunting. 1:05:50 - How to get connected with Mansal IG: @mansaldenton and grab Mansal’s email listening to the episode. Reach Nat on Twitter @<a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason?lang=en" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat Eliason (@nateliason)</a> and let him know what you are yours thoughts about the book and the episode. Leave us a review on <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/made-you-think/id1281256991?mt=2" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> iTunes</a> and let your friends know about it. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com</a>

58: Psychedelics and Self-Discovery. Food of the Gods by Terence McKenna

Robert Greene

Let us call the collection of these forces that push and pull at us from deep within human nature. Human nature stems from the particular wiring of our brains, the configuration of our nervous system and the way we humans process emotions, all of which developed and emerged over the course of the 5 million years or so of our evolution as a species. In this episode of Made You Think, Nat and Neil talk about  The Laws of Human Nature by Robert Greene. The author examines human behavior and suggests that it can be explained by different laws. Each law is presented and described in details: what every law means in your life, what you should do with it, how you should interpret it, and how you should use it. We cover a wide range of topics, including:  How humans really behave and how one should adapt to it Historical and contemporary examples to better understand each law How to apply each law to your life Why corporations don’t give much importance to Twitter (and it’s because of Trump) The effect of context on our mood and behavior (yes, Nazis and Twitter examples) Why you may feel miserable even with 1 billion in your account  And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of  The Laws of Human Nature by Robert Greene! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our episode on Mastery by Robert Greene, a fantastic book on sculpting your mind and your life in the pursuit of mastery, as well as Denial of Death by Ernest Becker, another book that delves into the idea that fearlessness is essential for individual success outside of a traditional path, and even within it.   Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we’re running, special events, and more. Links from the Episode Mentioned in the show  Irrationality [8:50] Self-awareness [10:37] Narcissism  [12:49] Role-playing [17:16] South Sea Bubble [32:22] Black Swan Preparation [33:05] Herd Mentality [35:16]  Instagram Influencer [35:39] The Godfather [38:45] Matrix [39:25] Primer [39:42] Self-sabotage [44:01] Mueller Report [45:45] Around the Horn [46:58] Pardon the Interruption [47:08] Crossfire [47:40] UC Berkeley [49:00] Lyft [49:22] New York Times [49:50] QueensBridge Venture Partners [50:41] Nazi [53:17] College as an incubator of Girardian terror by Dan Wang [59:40] American Psycho [1:01:44] Theranos [1:05:38] Enron [1:07:41] Apple [1:06:13] Nat's Article: Increasing the Difficulty [1:09:29] Social Justice Warrior [1:12:07] Neil's Article: Entertainment Isn't Dumb [1:16:40] Netflix [1:16:51] Cup &amp; Leaf [1:17:45] Estee Lauder [1:21:23] Taco Bell [1:22:09] Slacktivism [1:31:38] Star Trek [1:38:19]  Books mentioned   The Laws of Human Nature by Robert Greene  Mastery by Robert Greene (book episode) [01:33]  Antifragile by Nassim Taleb (Nat’s notes) (book episode) [1:34]  Letters from a Stoic by Seneca (Nat's notes) (book episode) [1:35]  The 50th Law by Robert Greene [03:00]  The 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene (Nat’s notes) [03:13]  Principles: Life and Work by Ray Dalio (Nat’s notes) (book episode) [6:58]  Poor Charlie's Almanack by Charlie Munger [10:11]  What Every Body is Saying by Joe Navarro [17:42] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  The Uninhabitable Earth by David Wallace-Wells [25:12]  12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson (Nat’s notes) (Neil’s notes) (book episode) [28:50]  12 Years A Slave by Solomon Northup [55:36]  Skin in the Game by Nassim Taleb (Nat’s notes) (Neil’s notes) (book episode) [1:00:31]  The Beginning of Infinity by David Deutsch (book episode) [1:29:26]  Made in America by Sam Walton [1:32:30]  The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker [1:34:45] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  The Elephant in the Brain by Kevin Simler and Robin Hanson [1:36:27] (Neil’s notes)  People mentioned   Robert Greene [01:15] Joe Rogan [07:55]  Donald Trump [09:17] Charles T.  Munger [10:11] Bill Clinton [18:17] Barack Obama [20:07] George W. Bush [21:33] Sam Harris [24:41] Daniel Kahneman [24:42] David Wallace-Wells [25:12] Jordan Peterson [28:50] Isaac Newton [32:27] Fredo Corleone [38:45] Nas [50:20] Steve Jobs [1:06:13]  Tim Ferriss [1:11:54] Seth Godin [1:22:31] Kanye West [1:25:37] Sam Walton [1:32:28] Ernest Becker [1:34:45] Ray Kurzweil [1:35:44]  Show Topics 01:12 – Nat and Nate are major fans of Robert Greene. Takeaways from their top Robert Greene books, Mastery and The 50th Law. 5:12 – The laws of human nature is based on how humans act and behave and what one can infer about other people or learn about them based on their behavior. Each law goes in-depth on historical and contemporary examples. 8:50 – Law of Irrationality: You may think you are rational but you're not. The first step towards becoming rational is to understand our fundamental irrationality. We all fall into this trap of thinking that we're the rational ones and everyone else is irrational. Green believes that we all have irrational beliefs and the best way to become more rational is having that awareness of yourself that you are also not a fully rational creature. What stems out from irrationality is the conviction bias or superiority bias, where you think like you're better than everyone. The key to stop making irrational decisions is self awareness and reflection. Increase your reaction time: when some event or interaction requires your response, train yourself to step back. 12:50 – Law of Narcissism: Transform self love into empathy. The idea of healthy narcissism is everyone is a narcissist to some extent, but if you're healthy about it, you have a stronger, more resilient sense of self and can recover more quickly from wounds and insults. There is not much validation needed from others. Social media is the medium of overly narcissists. Also, there are two monologues happening sometimes on shows like podcasts where you just happen to be speaking at each other, but you're not really having a conversation. Everybody just wants to feel heard, that's why people are posting on social media.. 17:12 – Law of Role-playing: See through people's masks. Bill Clinton never lost sight of the fact that as president, he had to project confidence and power, but if he was speaking to a group of auto workers, he would adjust his accent and his words to fit the audience and he would do the same to a group of executives. Most of the time, trying too hard to adjust to your audience can be offensive. 21:38 – Law of Compulsive Behavior: Determine the strength of people's character. A lot of people do have some form of compulsion in how they act. The toxic types and drama magnets fall in this type of behavior. There are certain people, like in high school or in college, who always have drama no matter what's going on. The Laws of Human Nature can be read in two different ways – with the eye to learning more about other people or with an eye towards yourself. We go through Sam Harris’ interview of Daniel Kahneman and Joe Rogan's interview of David Wallace Wells, author of The Uninhabitable Earth. 26:43 – Law of Covetousness: Become an elusive object of desire. This law is very true for relationships, for instance, people who are using dating apps. The people you're connecting with on dating apps are always seemingly perfect, but then as you get to know them, you realize they're all human beings, they’re not perfect. Also, it states that if you don't give somebody too much information about yourself, then you have that air of mystery and they can project whatever they want to project onto you. In an era of so much advertising and marketing, it affects your decision-making, what is something that you actually want and what's something you need. We tackle the 12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson, where he emphasizes on how many of our desires are actually internally-driven versus driven by what we're seeing other people do. 31:52 – Law of Short-sightedness: Elevate your perspective. It's basically civically training ourselves to detach from the heat of the moment. For any group or team, you kind of want someone in charge of revealing all the ways something could fail. Expecting the unexpected, the black swan preparedness. The concept of herd mentality, where you doubt your own logic in money and selfies. Take those Instagram influencers. 38:07 – Law of Defensiveness: Soften people's resistance by confirming their self opinion. Everyone thinks that they're autonomous and acting of their free will. Also, most think that they're intelligent and that they're good and decent. Regardless of whether or not those things are true, it behooves you to confirm people's beliefs in that about themselves. Fredo Corleone is a perfect example. He is the family idiot who also does some sleazy things and gets the family in trouble, but despite all of that and all the evidence staring him in the face, he still thinks he's an intelligent and good human being. Primer on being a Master Persuader: five strategies for instilling those beliefs in the people you're talking to. 42:50 – Law of Self-sabotage: Change your circumstances by changing your attitude. This part lists out a lot of bad mental routines people get into. When you see one of these self-sabotaging mentalities come out constantly from people, it makes it very hard to be around them. This happens in Twitter feed, where if you were constantly surrounded by political or hostile tweets or news, even if they're not directed at you, it changes your mood entirely. The click bait headlines confirming existing biases. 51:22 – Law of Repression: Confront your dark side. Part of the job in studying human nature is to recognize and examine the dark side of one’s character. You can't deny that there are going to be parts of your character that are bad. Seeking those out and figuring out where they're coming from can improve yourself to deal with those parts of your behavior. There's like very little genetic determination for whether you're a good or bad person. There may be some inclinations, but a lot of whether or not you become like a well-socialized or antisocial person is going to be from your environment and your upbringing. We dive in the two circumstances that can bring that type of thing out and study Nazi’s and slavery. Slave owners were not necessarily cruel individuals, it’s just that they were accustomed to such as they grow up. 57:53 – Law of Envy: Beware the fragile ego. This delves into how you can pick up on other people, the little things they say and do that convey some sense of envy or insecurity around you. Women talk about this a lot with other women but men are not exempted from this. The closer you are to other people, the more you will envy them and resent them. We touch on College as an Incubator of Girardian Terror by Dan Wang – how there is no clear sign of any diversity on college campuses. Also, there are different things that motivate people, and all these motivations are mashed up in our brains leading us to have different types of behaviors. The concept of Alpha dog, where it's more on status than the actual money itself. 1:04:58 – Law of Grandiosity: Know your limits. You should tie any feelings of greatness to your actual work and achievements in your contributions to society and not to something special about you because that's where it can get dangerous. A case in point is Theranos. If the projects you attempt are below or at your skill level, you'll become easily bored and less focused. If they are too ambitious, you will feel crushed by your failure. 1:10:18 – Law of Gender Rigidity: Reconnect to the masculine or feminine within you. Some of the things that you find attractive in the opposite sex is something that you need to develop within yourself. This is a good tool for introspection and personal development. Greene used these masculine and feminine traits as descriptors. Opposite traits complement one another. 1:13:13 – Law of Aimlessness: To advance with a sense of purpose. You'll be most motivated and happiest if you have a higher sense of purpose or mission that drives you on what you are doing as opposed to just following the direction or the goals of your parents for you and your peers. Purpose is doing something where you actually want to wake up and instantly start moving. People judge themselves if that sense of purpose isn't something big and special. 1:18:08 – Law of Conformity: Resist the downward pull of the group. Being aware that you're not immune to the way being in a group will change how you think. Notice how being around people changes the way you're behaving and thinking. Making decisions based on what you want think, not just what the group wants or thinks. LinkedIn launch table. Different groups hold different heuristics. Corporate America doesn’t use Twitter, they think it’s a Trump thing. 1:22:35 – Law of Fickleness: Make them want to follow you. You want to turn yourself into someone that people want to follow. There are three core things under this law: listening skills, dedicating yourself by respecting people's individual needs and proving that you're working for the greater good, and then taking the leadership as a huge responsibility and making sure that you're considering the welfare of the group as early on in your career as possible. Not letting other people categorize you so they will pay more attention trying to find out more about you. You want to develop the highest possible standards for your work and training yourself to be super aware of how your manner in tone are affecting the people around you. Reputation is going to play a really big role in whether or not you can succeed in becoming some kind of leader. The idea of sending mixed signals and showing qualities that are ever so slightly contrary. If you send mixed signals, if you're not allowing people to instantly categorize you, they're going to pay more attention because they're trying to figure you out. 1:26:10 – Law of Aggression: See the hostility behind the friendly facade. Too friendly person who you don’t actually know is irritating. We all have aggressive tendencies. Aggressiveness spectrum. Aggressiveness can be seen in sports too, and they can bring out that aggressive part in people who might not have thought they were aggressive. Everyone has an aggressive side, whether you exhibit it overly or passively, and your task is to not deny that you are aggressive, but to learn how you can channel it into something productive. Almost nothing in the world can resist persistent human energy. The trick is to want something badly enough that nothing will stop you or double your energy. And lastly, “most people engage at some cathartic release of their angers, some giant protest, and then it goes away and they slip back into complacency or become bitter”. 1:31:02 – Law of General Myopia: Seize the historical moment. Society moves in cycles of like kind of four generations. The first generation is that of revolutionaries who make a radical break with the past to establish new rules and create chaos. The second generation craves some order, and they want to stabilize the world and establish some new conventions in dogma. Then the third generation has little connection to the founders of the revolution and they're less passionate about it, they just want to make life comfortable and they don't want things to be getting upset. And lastly, the fourth generation feels society has lost its vitality and they're not sure what should replace it. The goal is to understand as deeply as possible the spirit of your generation, of the times that you live in. Learn how you can take advantage of it and how that has affected how you perceive the world. The premise behind Sam Walton’s Walmart. “Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” 1:34:35 – The Law of Death Denial: Meditate on your common mortality. Essentially, we don't like to think about the fact that we're going to die and that makes us act in ways that we might not. It causes us to buy into philosophies that will save us from that fact. We dive into the technological transcendence being the modern version of religion. No one is ever going to upload their brain into a computer. We must think of our mortality as a kind of continual deadline. We must stop fooling ourselves. We could die tomorrow and even if we live for another 80 years, it is but a drop in the ocean of the vastness of time and it passes always more quickly than we imagine. We have to awaken to this reality and make it a continual meditation. 1:41:31 – Find us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS and @nateliason and let us know what are yours thoughts about the book and the episode. Leave a review and share it with your friends if you like the show. Join the email list at Made You Think Podcast, that's the best way to stay up to date on future episodes and things that are going on with the show. Check our supporters at madeyouthink.com/support.

59: Eternal Human Psychology: The Laws of Human Nature by Robert Greene

Ernest Becker

“It’s this denial of death that is our main psychological challenge.” In this episode of Made You Think, Neil and I discuss  The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker. It’s a phenomenal book on how our fear of mortality is the core for our psychological disturbances, our motivation for taking action in life and behaving in certain ways. We cover a wide range of topics, including:  The necessity for a heroic purpose to motivate us and the current lack of it Why we do things and behave in certain ways The fear of death being the core of our psychological disturbances How we often take comfort in trivial things to give us the illusion of control Death being a prime motivation for us to do things and take action Breaking down our need for certainty and control in life Balancing the need to reflect with the need to experience  And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab  a copy of The Denial of Death and to check out  Nat’s Notes on the book! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out  our episode on The Power of Myth, to learn how to use the power of mythology to positively influence your life, and  our episode on How to Think Like Elon Musk, to learn how to emulate Musk’s way of thinking for extreme advantages in life. Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we're running, special events, and more.   Mentioned in the show:  Perfect Keto [1:42]  Dr. Jordan Peterson Podcast [2:45] Carnegie Mellon [10:58] Dante’s Inferno [17:47] Blackfish [27:52] Waitbutwhy [31:15]  Waitbutwhy article on the iPhone experiment [31:15] Crony Beliefs [38:12] Melting Asphalt [38:18] Atheist Reddit [44:52] Mark Manson’s website [47:27] Nomad List [50:07] RemoteOK [50:12] Hoodmaps [50:14] Modern Times Brewery [52:12]  Made You Think Cryptocurrency episode [55:54] Coinbase [57:11] Nat Chat Podcast [59:12] Growth Machine [1:02:45] Quickbooks [1:03:05] Tim Ferriss Podcast [1:07:30] Idiocracy [1:21:00] Made You Think support page [1:24:08] Four Sigmatic Mushroom Coffee [1:24:20] Four Sigmatic Cordyceps Mushroom Elixir [1:25:20] Kettle and Fire Bone Broth (20% off!) [1:25:35]  Instapot [1:26:17] Perfect Keto’s products [1:26:47]  Books mentioned:   The Denial of Death (Nat’s Notes)  The Power of Myth [4:18] (Nat’s Notes) (episode on the book)  Mastery [14:27] (Nat’s Notes) (episode on the book)  The Story of Philosophy [15:14] (Nat’s Notes)  Black Swan [23:20] (Nat’s Notes)  Godel Escher Bach [26:18] (Nat’s Notes) (episode on the book)  Waking Up [26:47] (Nat’s Notes)  The Way of Zen [35:20] (Neil’s Notes) (Nat’s Notes) (episode on the book)  Sapiens [36:08] (Nat’s Notes)  Radical [45:44]  Work Clean [48:16] (Nat’s Notes) (episode on the book)  The 4-Hour Workweek [48:48]  Antifragile [1:11:20] (Nat’s Notes) (episode on the book)  Skin in the Game [1:19:01]  Brave New World [1:19:39]  Fight Club [1:22:42]  People mentioned:  Ernest Becker Sigmund Freud [2:10] Dr. Jordan Peterson [2:45] Carl Jung [14:38] Will Durant [15:14] Albert Einstein [16:00] Ray Kurzweil [18:23] Peter Thiel [18:29] Elon Musk [18:47] (episode on How to Think Like Elon Musk) Sam Harris [26:47] Tim Urban [32:07]  Jose Ortega y Gasset [36:26] Kevin Simmler [38:14] Mark Manson [47:27] Tim Ferriss [48:44] Peter Levels [50:06] Kierkegaard [53:40] Taylor Pearson [55:52] Adil Majid [56:24] Jocko Willink [1:04:11] Erich Fromm [1:05:47] Nassim Nicholas Taleb [1:11:20] (Antifragile episode) Neil Strauss [1:18:42] (Emergency episode)  0:00 - Introductory quote and a bit of information about the book itself. 4:28 - Some thoughts on living every day as your last, versus taking everything seriously due to the impact it has in the long-term. Also, some discussion on time, various aspects of human nature, and the differences between everyone’s perspective. 8:49 - Becoming conscious of what we’re doing to earn our feeling of heroism to find out that it’s the main self-analytic problem of life. Some thoughts on this and discussion on how most of the youth today do not have some big heroic ideal that they’re pushing towards. 11:10 - Some more thoughts on the lack of heroic purpose and the lack of meaning in our lives today. How this is related to motivation and depression, as well. “If you don’t have a propelling narrative for what you’re doing with your life, then you will naturally be depressed and feel like your life doesn’t matter.” 12:53 - Tearing down our heroes to give ourselves a sense of control and this happening in society. Some examples of this and then some discussion on mentor/mentee relationships, 16:26 - Discussion on the terror of death and various examples of this theme throughout cultures, societies, and religions. Also how our fear of death influences our view of the world. “It’s this denial of death that is our main psychological challenge.” 19:13 - The problem of us often inventing reasons for anxiety when there are none, some examples of people doing this, and how this relates to our mortality. Also, how we should try to not waste energy worrying about something that may happen, and instead saving that energy for when it might happen. “We all just sort of invent these anxieties and reasons to worry, and they seem really important and serious to us, but to outsiders, they usually seem trivial.” 23:35 - How we need the fear of mortality to motivate us to do things. Also, some thoughts on how we’re trying to extend our lives and live forever, and some thoughts on consciousness and the ego. “We need death to motivate us to do anything in life.” 27:29 - Discussion on empathy and consciousness in animals, the evolution of species, and survival instincts. Also, a bit on how much food we consume, and how much resources it takes to grow something and then when we lose that something, we lose all of those resources that were involved. 33:32 - Various psychoanalytic concepts and the next section on life being this chaos that we get lost in, and hiding behind these shared mythologies to avoid that chaos. Comforting ourselves to hide from the true reality of that situation. 38:22 - Thinking of information having objective value, and some thoughts on how we adopt these beliefs to gain something. Also, when someone challenges that belief, we lash out at them. How noticing ourselves having an emotional reaction when this happens shows us that that belief is most likely crony. How noticing this emotional response in others can benefit you and examples of this, as well. 44:13 - Discussion on how ideologies gain their strength, people getting emotionally invested in them, how we all need something we can cling to really strongly, and how we jump around with clinging to things. Also, some discussion on jumping around from obsessions and how people who feel strongly in certain communities will lash out on others who do or think differently. 53:40 - Some discussion and examples of us doing things more aggressively than we normally would to gain a sense of control that we’re lacking in another area of our life. Doing trivial acts to gain the illusion of control. 55:52 - Thoughts on cryptocurrency and how we will sometimes mess up things on purpose, just to regain that sense of control and do it all over again. How this can lead to loss of control, as well. 1:02:19 - How we’re always going to have various anxieties and how we can use these to trigger personal growth. Also, a bit on finding out what it is that you’re avoiding the most, and how that is most likely what you need to be doing. How taking a small action towards doing that can make it easier to do the rest and some discussion on making compromises with yourself, as well. 1:05:24 - The next section on the spell cast by persons that is transference. Describing transference, and how we deify certain persons to gain more control in our own lives due to following that person. Also, how we get offended when someone ruins our image of something that we have a fixed perspective on. 1:11:20 - How religion has to have had some survival benefit to be so pervasive throughout the world and every culture and some discussion on the shared myth of certain similarities between people. 1:12:50 - Thoughts on how we’ve lost spirituality and mysticism over the years, and how modern man tries to replace that vital awe and wonder with a how-to-do-it manual. Why we prefer this manual and why we need to think that everything is perfectly logical to remove the anxiety from the dreaded uncertainty. Tying this back into the illusion of control. 1:15:57 - How we all avoid this fear of death and dealing with our problems by tranquilizing ourselves with something trivial (celebrities, social media, the news, etc). How we need to face the uncertainty of certain situations and the true reality of situations. 1:17:25 - Feeling the pain of failure, engaging in experience and being fully invested in it to learn from it. Also, not just knowing, but actually living and plunging into experiences. “If you have all reflection without any plunging into experience, you’ll just go crazy. And if you have just all plunging with no reflection, you’re a brute. You have to balance both of them.” 1:19:15 - Some last thoughts and how we have to face up to our need to be heroic. How culture doesn’t really provide opportunities to be heroic and helps us forget it, and how this deprives us of our heroic urge to victory. Also, tying this into universal based income and some thoughts on that. 1:22:53 - The last line of the book and some closing thoughts on the podcast, the book, the newsletter, and supporting the podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com The irony of man’s condition is that the deepest need is to be free of the anxiety of death and annihilation, but it is life itself which awakens it and so we must shrink from being fully alive.

19: How Our Mortality Drives Our Lives: The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker

John Galt

“If you saw Atlas, the giant who holds the world on his shoulders, if you saw that he stood, blood running down his chest, his knees buckling, his arms trembling but still trying to hold the world aloft with the last of his strength, and the greater his effort the heavier the world bore down on his shoulders—what would you tell him to do?” “I . . . don’t know. What . . . could he do? What would you tell him?” “To shrug.” In this episode of Made You Think, Neil and Nat discuss  Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand, a piece of philosophy disguised as a novel. Probably the 10th longest book in Latin language, Atlas Shrugged is a controversial, polarizing book that attacks Socialism, references Postmodernism and develops Objectivism, Rand’s philosophical system. So you think that money is the root of all evil?” said Francisco d’Anconia. “Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can’t exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil? We cover a wide range of topics, including:  Money as the root of all evil or source of all good Why academics and politicians see successful businessmen with distrust Wealthy kids arguing for socialism The truth about law (spoiler: you are not obliged to obey it) A 3 hour long discourse Writing sex scenes  And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of  Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our episode on  Sovereign Individual by James Dale Davidson, a book that foresee how governments will react with new tech, as well as our episodes on Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari (part 1 &amp;  part 2), a book about the power of myths and humans collaborating for a greater outcome. Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we're running, special events, and more. Links from the Episode Mentioned in the show  Ford [11:11] Delta [11:11] American Airlines [11:11] Cup &amp; Leaf – Nat's Tea Project [24:05] Effective Altruism [32:03] CMU [33:09] Tony Robbins on the Tim Ferriss Show [34:22] UBI – Universal Basic Income [35:52] Crypto episode [36:48] Patreon [37:30]  Drizly and Minibar [42:56] AirBnB [44:09] Uber [45:32] IRS [46:25] Neil Soni on Nat Chat [55:30] Harari on UBI [56:33] Al-Qaida [1:02:40]  ISIS [1:02:40] Amazon [1:05:02] NASA [1:06:16] SpaceX [1:06:16] Boeing [1:05:40]  Voldemort Effect [1:15:17]  Books mentioned   Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand  Harry Potter [6:49]  Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari [20:47] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode  part 1 &amp;  part 2)  Money Master the Game by Tony Robbins [34:22]  Sovereign Individual [36:48] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  Finite and Infinite Games [41:55] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode)  Homo Deus by Yuval Harari [42:44] (book episode)  The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand [1:17:59]  People mentioned  Ayn Rand List of Atlas Shrugged characters  Francisco d’Anconia Hank Rearden  Dagny Taggart John Galt   Plato [5:10] Socrates [5:20] Tony Robbins [34:22] Peter Thiel [48:30] Aristotle [50:40] Ron Paul [1:09:23] Nathaniel Brandon [1:17:02] Leonard Peikoff [1:17:45] Simone de Beauvoir [1:21:07]  Show Topics 6:55 – The structure of the book is an interwoven of essays spoken by the characters. Re-reading the book may help understand better the concepts. 9:05 - The book starts with a parallel world set in the 50ties, with two kinds of people: the industrious productive ones running big infrastructure businesses of the Nation, and the socialists, government ones (described as parasites). The main plot is that the productive ones start disappearing, and the socialists intervene to try to keep the economy running and avoid collapsing. 13:19 – The idea is that the more one tries to control the economy, the worst it's going to get. The example of limiting book sales to 10k. 15:24 – Introducing the characters of Francisco d'Anconia and Hank Rearden. Money as the root of all evil. Criticism of money made by people that never understood how someone actually makes money. 19:00 – Tangent. Most of the critiques to money as the origin of all evil originates between academics or congressman, people that project their experiences "playing politics" and assume businessmen are filthy rich because of a more aggressive political game. 21:11 – Examples of activities that make money without creating value. High frequency trading, hardcore rent seeking. The money test, or how to know if you are effectively creating value. Feeling guilty when asking money, cutting through bullshit. 25:05 – Counter-argument: money as the source of all good. Money allows us to cooperate. 29:47 – We don't see that many successful people in business arguing for socialism. On the opposite side, we can see many wealthy kids arguing for socialism. Why people in the artistic communities advocate for socialism while earning millions on performances. The different approach to socialism between wealthy kids and kids with scholarships. Forced redistribution may not be sustainable in the long term. 34:22 – Tony Robbins about the ideal amount to tax, so to pay for public services, and not to discourage taxpayers to fly away. Striking a fine balance is even more important when technologies that enable us to avoid taxation are widely available. 38:28 – Hank put on trial by the government. The nature of laws is that they have to be enforced by force. Most people won't voluntarily do what government order them to do unless pointed with a gun. 42:56 – Most people think of laws and rules as things they have to follow, instead of options that have consequences. The idea that a rule is just something that typically advantageous to follow. Startups influencing how new rules for grey areas will be legislated. Why NY regulators don't go after illicit listing on AirBnB. 47:24 – John Galt speech (spoiler alert). Layout of objectivism, Ayn Rand’s main contribution to philosophy, as some sort of adaptation of Aristotelian ethics and metaphysics. In Rand's objectivism there can't be contradictions. Or, going against postmodernism, there is no complete subjectivity. 51:39 – Objectivism: Existence is Identity, Consciousness is Identification. Reality is not going to change if we hide away from it. Meaning of life and meaningful work as the purpose of life. Reason, purpose, self-esteem. 55:00 – Why people is unhappy with their job. Our jobs is where we spend most of our active ours, and if that is not purposeful, it's hard to be satisfied. Corollaries from Sovereign Individual. We are in a time where in response to new technologies, government reacts in a more socialist direction, so the more productive people go somewhere else. The importance of cryptocurrency in this movement vs gold. 59:52 – Logic against postmodernism. Not saying anything, keeping the mouth shut and dying, is the only way to fulfill the argument of objectiveness non-existence. 1:01:43 – The roles of governments. The need of a third-party force as a result of the concept of property. Protection, Roads, Public Parks: how would they work if left to private initiative. Social Security, a legalized Ponzi scheme, works only if enforced. Alternatives to Social Security and who pays for it. 1:11:29 – Tangent. Criticism to Atlas Shrugged as it doesn't convince someone who is convinced of the opposite. University is very liberal biased. It's very tough to get grants to do research that doesn't confirm liberal ideology. 1:13:56 – Outlawing ideas make them more compelling. The case of silencing gender differences. 1:16:43 – Diving into objectivism in School. The contrast of female characters of Ayn Rand books. Sex scenes and description of scenes. 1:22:11 – Tangent. Rand’s sex scenes are more emotional-psychological than physical. Philosophy of love, related to the meaning of life. Love as a sense of achievement. Interpretations of love possession. 1:26:29 – Closing quote. “In the name of the best within you, do not sacrifice this world to those who are its worst. In the name of the values that keep you alive, do not let your vision of man be distorted by the ugly, the cowardly, the mindless in those who have never achieved his title. Do not lose your knowledge that man’s proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark, in the hopeless swamps of the approximate, the not-quite, the not-yet, the not-at-all. Do not let the hero in your soul perish, in lonely frustration for the life you deserved, but have never been able to reach. Check your road and the nature of your battle. The world you desired can be won, it exists, it is real, it is possible, it’s yours.” 1:27:30 – Sponsors! With Scentbird you select and queue perfumes you want to try, and receive them on a monthly basis. Their cartridge system is very convenient, very discounted  and travel-friendly. Use the coupon mentioned in the episode to get 50% off on the first month. Perfect Keto's MCT oil is one of the best fats to keep a ketogenic diet. Their MCT oil powdered version is fantastic to mix in to your coffee drinks, or mushroom coffee. It is much easier than cutting a piece of butter, and it has a creamy texture. For the mushroom coffee, go to Four Sigmatic and get 15% off. Their mushroom coffee energizes you with less caffeine. Kettle &amp; Fire for delicious, organic, grass fed, bone broth, good for getting the micronutrients that it's difficult to get if you don't eat organ meats. You can cook it, drink directly from the carton, or try it with cumin and chili, heat and sip it. It is shelf stable for a really long time. New sponsor! At Cup &amp; Leaf you can find the finest teas reviewed by Nat, with a 20% off! Try the organic Earl Grey cream and milk Oolong, a pretty unique tea. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com

“If you saw Atlas, the giant who holds the world on his shoulders, if you saw that he stood, blood running down his chest, his knees buckling, his arms trembling but still trying to hold the world aloft with the last of his strength, and the greater his effort the heavier the world bore down on his shoulders—what would you tell him to do?” “I . . . don’t know. What . . . could he do? What would you tell him?” “To shrug.” In this episode of Made You Think, Neil and Nat discuss <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Shrugged-Ayn-Rand-ebook/dp/B003V8B5XO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1517852296&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=atlas+shrugged+book/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand</a>, a piece of philosophy disguised as a novel. Probably the 10th longest book in Latin language, Atlas Shrugged is a controversial, polarizing book that attacks Socialism, references Postmodernism and develops Objectivism, Rand’s philosophical system. So you think that money is the root of all evil?” said Francisco d’Anconia. “Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can’t exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil? We cover a wide range of topics, including: <ul> <li>Money as the root of all evil or source of all good</li> <li>Why academics and politicians see successful businessmen with distrust</li> <li>Wealthy kids arguing for socialism</li> <li>The truth about law (spoiler: you are not obliged to obey it)</li> <li>A 3 hour long discourse</li> <li>Writing sex scenes</li> </ul> And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Shrugged-Ayn-Rand-ebook/dp/B003V8B5XO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1517852296&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=atlas+shrugged+book/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand</a>! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our episode on <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Sovereign-Individual-Mastering-Transition-Information/dp/0684832720/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Sovereign Individual by James Dale Davidson</a>, a book that foresee how governments will react with new tech, as well as our episodes on Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/sapiens-by-yuval-noah-harari-part-i/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">part 1</a> &amp; <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/sapiens-by-yuval-noah-harari-part-ii/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> part 2</a>), a book about the power of myths and humans collaborating for a greater outcome. Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we're running, special events, and more. Links from the Episode Mentioned in the show <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Motor_Company" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ford</a> [11:11]</li> <li><a href="https://www.delta.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Delta</a> [11:11]</li> <li><a href="https://www.aa.com/homePage.do" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">American Airlines</a> [11:11]</li> <li><a href="http://www.cupandleaf.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Cup &amp; Leaf – Nat's Tea Project</a> [24:05]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Effective Altruism</a> [32:03]</li> <li><a href="https://www.cmu.edu/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">CMU</a> [33:09]</li> <li><a href="https://tim.blog/2014/10/15/money-master-the-game/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Tony Robbins on the Tim Ferriss Show</a> [34:22]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">UBI – Universal Basic Income</a> [35:52]</li> <li><a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/cryptocurrency-crash-course/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Crypto episode</a> [36:48]</li> <li><a href="https://www.patreon.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Patreon</a> [37:30]</li> <li><a href="https://gizmodo.com/my-lazy-drunken-quest-to-find-the-best-alcohol-deliver-1759784584" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Drizly and Minibar</a> [42:56]</li> <li><a href="https://www.airbnb.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">AirBnB</a> [44:09]</li> <li><a href="https://www.uber.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Uber</a> [45:32]</li> <li><a href="https://www.irs.gov/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">IRS</a> [46:25]</li> <li><a href="https://www.nateliason.com/beer-books-philosophy-neil-soni/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil Soni on Nat Chat</a> [55:30]</li> <li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJMYdG1SUnM" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Harari on UBI</a> [56:33]</li> <li><a href="https://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Al-Qaida</a> [1:02:40]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> ISIS</a> [1:02:40]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Amazon</a> [1:05:02]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">NASA</a> [1:06:16]</li> <li><a href="http://www.spacex.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">SpaceX</a> [1:06:16]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Boeing</a> [1:05:40]</li> <li><a href="https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Voldemort%20Effect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Voldemort Effect</a> [1:15:17]</li> </ul> Books mentioned <ul> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Shrugged-Ayn-Rand-ebook/dp/B003V8B5XO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1517852296&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=atlas+shrugged+book/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/gp/bookseries/B00CJG28U8/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Harry Potter</a> [6:49]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari/dp/0062316095/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari</a> [20:47] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/sapiens-yuval-noah-harari/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (book episode <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/sapiens-by-yuval-noah-harari-part-i/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> part 1</a> &amp; <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/sapiens-by-yuval-noah-harari-part-ii/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> part 2</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/MONEY-Master-Game-Financial-Freedom/dp/1476757860/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Money Master the Game by Tony Robbins</a> [34:22]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Sovereign-Individual-Mastering-Transition-Information/dp/0684832720/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Sovereign Individual</a> [36:48] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/sovereign-individual/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/sovereign-individual/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">book episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Finite-Infinite-Games-James-Carse/dp/1476731713/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Finite and Infinite Games</a> [41:55] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/finite-infinite-games-james-carse/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/finite-and-infinite-james-carse/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">book episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Homo-Deus-Brief-History-Tomorrow/dp/0062464310/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Homo Deus by Yuval Harari</a> [42:44] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/homo-deus-by-yuval-noah-harari/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">book episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Fountainhead-Ayn-Rand/dp/0451191153/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand</a> [1:17:59]</li> </ul> People mentioned <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ayn Rand</a></li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlas_Shrugged_characters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">List of Atlas Shrugged characters</a> <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlas_Shrugged_characters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Francisco d’Anconia</a></li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlas_Shrugged_characters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Hank Rearden</a></li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlas_Shrugged_characters#Dagny_Taggart" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Dagny Taggart</a></li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Galt" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">John Galt</a></li> </ul> </li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Plato</a> [5:10]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Socrates</a> [5:20]</li> <li><a href="https://www.tonyrobbins.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Tony Robbins</a> [34:22]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thiel" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Peter Thiel</a> [48:30]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Aristotle</a> [50:40]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ron Paul</a> [1:09:23]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathaniel_Branden" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nathaniel Brandon</a> [1:17:02]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Peikoff" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Leonard Peikoff</a> [1:17:45]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_de_Beauvoir" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Simone de Beauvoir</a> [1:21:07]</li> </ul> Show Topics 6:55 – The structure of the book is an interwoven of essays spoken by the characters. Re-reading the book may help understand better the concepts. 9:05 - The book starts with a parallel world set in the 50ties, with two kinds of people: the industrious productive ones running big infrastructure businesses of the Nation, and the socialists, government ones (described as parasites). The main plot is that the productive ones start disappearing, and the socialists intervene to try to keep the economy running and avoid collapsing. 13:19 – The idea is that the more one tries to control the economy, the worst it's going to get. The example of limiting book sales to 10k. 15:24 – Introducing the characters of Francisco d'Anconia and Hank Rearden. Money as the root of all evil. Criticism of money made by people that never understood how someone actually makes money. 19:00 – Tangent. Most of the critiques to money as the origin of all evil originates between academics or congressman, people that project their experiences "playing politics" and assume businessmen are filthy rich because of a more aggressive political game. 21:11 – Examples of activities that make money without creating value. High frequency trading, hardcore rent seeking. The money test, or how to know if you are effectively creating value. Feeling guilty when asking money, cutting through bullshit. 25:05 – Counter-argument: money as the source of all good. Money allows us to cooperate. 29:47 – We don't see that many successful people in business arguing for socialism. On the opposite side, we can see many wealthy kids arguing for socialism. Why people in the artistic communities advocate for socialism while earning millions on performances. The different approach to socialism between wealthy kids and kids with scholarships. Forced redistribution may not be sustainable in the long term. 34:22 – Tony Robbins about the ideal amount to tax, so to pay for public services, and not to discourage taxpayers to fly away. Striking a fine balance is even more important when technologies that enable us to avoid taxation are widely available. 38:28 – Hank put on trial by the government. The nature of laws is that they have to be enforced by force. Most people won't voluntarily do what government order them to do unless pointed with a gun. 42:56 – Most people think of laws and rules as things they have to follow, instead of options that have consequences. The idea that a rule is just something that typically advantageous to follow. Startups influencing how new rules for grey areas will be legislated. Why NY regulators don't go after illicit listing on AirBnB. 47:24 – John Galt speech (spoiler alert). Layout of objectivism, Ayn Rand’s main contribution to philosophy, as some sort of adaptation of Aristotelian ethics and metaphysics. In Rand's objectivism there can't be contradictions. Or, going against postmodernism, there is no complete subjectivity. 51:39 – Objectivism: Existence is Identity, Consciousness is Identification. Reality is not going to change if we hide away from it. Meaning of life and meaningful work as the purpose of life. Reason, purpose, self-esteem. 55:00 – Why people is unhappy with their job. Our jobs is where we spend most of our active ours, and if that is not purposeful, it's hard to be satisfied. Corollaries from Sovereign Individual. We are in a time where in response to new technologies, government reacts in a more socialist direction, so the more productive people go somewhere else. The importance of cryptocurrency in this movement vs gold. 59:52 – Logic against postmodernism. Not saying anything, keeping the mouth shut and dying, is the only way to fulfill the argument of objectiveness non-existence. 1:01:43 – The roles of governments. The need of a third-party force as a result of the concept of property. Protection, Roads, Public Parks: how would they work if left to private initiative. Social Security, a legalized Ponzi scheme, works only if enforced. Alternatives to Social Security and who pays for it. 1:11:29 – Tangent. Criticism to Atlas Shrugged as it doesn't convince someone who is convinced of the opposite. University is very liberal biased. It's very tough to get grants to do research that doesn't confirm liberal ideology. 1:13:56 – Outlawing ideas make them more compelling. The case of silencing gender differences. 1:16:43 – Diving into objectivism in School. The contrast of female characters of Ayn Rand books. Sex scenes and description of scenes. 1:22:11 – Tangent. Rand’s sex scenes are more emotional-psychological than physical. Philosophy of love, related to the meaning of life. Love as a sense of achievement. Interpretations of love possession. 1:26:29 – Closing quote. “In the name of the best within you, do not sacrifice this world to those who are its worst. In the name of the values that keep you alive, do not let your vision of man be distorted by the ugly, the cowardly, the mindless in those who have never achieved his title. Do not lose your knowledge that man’s proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark, in the hopeless swamps of the approximate, the not-quite, the not-yet, the not-at-all. Do not let the hero in your soul perish, in lonely frustration for the life you deserved, but have never been able to reach. Check your road and the nature of your battle. The world you desired can be won, it exists, it is real, it is possible, it’s yours.” 1:27:30 – Sponsors! With <a href="https://www.scentbird.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Scentbird</a> you select and queue perfumes you want to try, and receive them on a monthly basis. Their cartridge system is very convenient, very discounted  and travel-friendly. Use the coupon mentioned in the episode to get 50% off on the first month. <a href="https://www.perfectketo.com/think" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Perfect Keto</a>'s MCT oil is one of the best fats to keep a ketogenic diet. Their MCT oil powdered version is fantastic to mix in to your coffee drinks, or mushroom coffee. It is much easier than cutting a piece of butter, and it has a creamy texture. For the mushroom coffee, go to <a href="http://foursigmatic.com/think" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Four Sigmatic</a> and get 15% off. Their mushroom coffee energizes you with less caffeine. <a href="https://www.kettleandfire.com/think" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kettle &amp; Fire</a> for delicious, organic, grass fed, bone broth, good for getting the micronutrients that it's difficult to get if you don't eat organ meats. You can cook it, drink directly from the carton, or try it with cumin and chili, heat and sip it. It is shelf stable for a really long time. New sponsor! At <a href="http://www.cupandleaf.com/think" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Cup &amp; Leaf</a> you can find the finest teas reviewed by Nat, with a 20% off! Try the organic Earl Grey cream and milk Oolong, a pretty unique tea. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com</a>

38: Who is John Galt? Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand

Yuval Noah Harari

Three important revolutions shaped the course of history: the Cognitive Revolution kick-started history about 70,000 years ago. The Agricultural Revolution sped it up about 12,000 years ago. The Scientific Revolution, which got under way only 500 years ago, may well end history and start something completely different. This book tells the story of how these three revolutions have affected humans and their fellow organisms.  Sapiens by Yuval Harari is one of those books that shapes how we think, as another lenses through which we can look at reality. It’s central theme is the evolution of Human History, and gives special importance to myths and shared ideologies. It explains how shared myths underlie human narrative and everything we find meaningful. There's a lot of power in these shared ideas because they end up regulating how a society and people function. We cover a wide range of topics, including:  The power of shared myths and their impact in Human History The Cognitive, Agricultural, and Writing Revolutions Why Sam Harris and Jordan B Peterson quarrel each other Why Agriculture counterintuitively fucked us up Self-perpetuating ideas and cultures Ideas to reduce the wealth gap  And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of  Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our episode on  Antifragile by Nassim Taleb, about why hunters are in better shape than gatherers, and  The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell, another book that explains the influence of shared mythology. Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we're running, special events, and more. Links from the Episode Mentioned in the show  Cryptocurrency [0:36] (theme episode) Age of Empires [11:55] Why everything might have taken so long [12:14] 23andMe [17:56] Aquatic Ape Theory [27:08] Zoroastrians [28:31] Ubermensch [41:41]  Ancient data, modern math and the hunt for 11 lost cities of the Bronze Age [1:02:52] Pareto Distribution [1:25:08] Hardcore History Podcast by Dan Carlin [1:31:29]  Books mentioned   Sapiens by Yuval Harari (Nat’s Notes)  Darwin’s Dangerous Idea by Daniel Dennet [1:54] (book episode)  Gödel Escher Bach by Douglas Hofstadter [1:54] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode)  Finite and Infinite Games [1:54] (Nat’s Notes) (Made You Think episode)  The Selfish Gene [4:10]  Discipline and Punish by Michel Foucault [4:21] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode)  Rare Earth [7:50]  The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell [23:16] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode)  Primitive Mythology by Joseph Campbell [28:41]  What Every Body is saying by Joe Navarro [39:23] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode)  The Denial of Death [59:45] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode)  The Lessons of History by Will and Ariel Durant [1:25:45]  Leverage Points by Donella Meadows [1:26:34] (article episode)  The Sovereign Individual [1:30:33] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode)  Emergency [1:30:33] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode)  Skin in the Game by Nassim Taleb [1:33:15]  People mentioned  Yuval Noah Harari (official website) Adil Majid [0:36] (Crypto episode) Sam Harris [34:33] (Guns episode) Jordan B. Peterson [34:33] (on Twitter) (12 Rules episode) Nassim Nicholas Taleb [35:25] (Antifragile episode) Jocko [51:51] Peter Thiel [1:07:34] Stephen Hawking [1:08:58]  Show Topics [1:29] The mechanism of shared myths where you end up doing what other people tell and reinforce about you scales very well to micro (relationship disputes) and macro levels (political movements). [5:48] How meaningless we humans are as a species. Being just like another animal. The path to genetic and technical advantages. The role of fire that helps us consume less energy when digesting food. Energy that can go to our relative big brains. [11:08] Agriculture seems to have sprung out all around the globe at the same time. The increasing pace of progression between ages. Domestication of wild plants and animals did not increase in the last 2000 years. [16:12] Tolerance and the extinction of Neanderthals. Two theories about the extinction of Neanderthals. The first based on the intolerance trait of Sapiens, leads to think they were the target of the most significant ethnic-cleansing campaign in history. The second, less probable, talks about interbreeding and mingling. French vestiges in Vietnam. [21:39] Cognitive, the first revolution, defined by language. We switch by chatting about resources or danger, to be able to communicate richly about abstract ideas. Shared methodology becomes our main competitive advantage in nature, with the ability to pass out knowledge. Poetry as a mnemonic technique (ability to remember more). [24:26] Challenges in interpretation of spoken languages. The Bible example. Jesus walking on water can be translated to walking by the water. There exist some evidence that The Big Flood really existed. [27:08] Why there's a limit to the size a community can bond together and the the role of religion or "shared myths and methodology" to get past this number. The fact that Sapiens were able to cooperate in larger groups may be one of the reasons they wiped out Neanderthals, despite their physical and mental superiority. [33:30] What reality means for Harris, Peterson, Taleb, and Hirari. The roots of the Sam Harris and Jordan B Peterson disagreement may lie on the definition of reality. Porcupine example: a lot of people believes porcupines shoot their quills, which is not true, but helps us not to get injured. There are too many variables to consider when interpreting our environment, but our minds can feel something is odd even if we can't rationalize it. [40:11] How some Cultures are able to self perpetuate. Islamism vs Judaism. [43:10] The omission of evidence does not mean omission in reality. The only evidence that has survived is the one recorded in physical devices. All immaterial things went lost. Stone Age should be called the Wood Age. [45:31] Agriculture. History's biggest fraud: The agricultural revolution didn't led to a better life, but to an explosion of population and diseases. Agriculture societies are more fragile. Introduction of the concept of private property. Differences between hunters and gatherers, and losing skills. In Social Media, as in Agriculture, is difficult to see the end game. Successful Evolution is generally counted by numbers, not quality of life. We think that we domesticated other species, but it seems we domesticated ourselves. [54:53] As gatherers we are more prone to less Black Swans, but more variability. History of yeast and weed domestication. [59:45] Pyramids as objects of cult. Past and modern pyramids. Multiple levels of games to conquer pyramids. Nomadic Lifestyle as a cult. [1:02:52] The Writing Revolution. The first use of writing was financial accounting records. The origin of different bases for counting. Base 6 or 24 for hours in a day, base 10 related to our digits, base 2 as a valid alternative. [1:05:09] Writing originated because of agriculture. Phoenicians were prolific writers, but their main support was papyrus which went lost. On the contrary, Egyptians wrote less but on walls, so we have much more records from them. Ways to codify an idea understandable by every creature and the NASA experiment. Would aliens look to us as annoying spiders or cute kittens? [1:12:40] The idea of justice is alien to history. Theories of male dominance in human history. Comparisons to other mammals that form non-male societies. [1:20:34] Institution of family related to the concept of private property. Marriage is thought to be beneficial for women, but there’s a theory that states is much more beneficial for (loser) men [1:24:05] The role of shared myths to perpetuate the status quo. Wealth goes to wealth, poverty back to poverty. The correcting mechanism trickle and stop. Ideas to stop wealth differences should reduce the compounding effect of each situation. Taxing more capital gains and less income tax, or distinguishing between founder's capital from investor capital may level the ground between rich and poor and stop self-perpetuating statuses. [1:32:06] Here ends Part 1 of Sapiens. Pick the book and read the rest before Part 2 comes out. Sponsors! Buy a  Canon EOS D5 through Amazon and help us support the show. Kettle &amp; Fire is our provider of fine bone broth. They've got beef, chicken, chicken with mushroom. It cures disease, or at least there's no side effect when trying to cure from sickness with it. Get up to 33% OFF with our link. Four Sigmatic make great mushroom drinks, elixirs, coffee, and chocolates. We suggest the Adaptogen, and the Cordyceps to picnic up later in the day. Get 10 to 15% discount with our link. Perfect Keto is for all your ketosis needs. Really good products to get into and sustain ketosis. They have keto friendly protein powder, MCT oils, and nice pre-workout boost. Give us a  review on iTunes, tell your friends, but not on facebook because Nat deleted his profile. Register for the email list and you'll know about books that are coming. Hit us up on twitter, @nateliason, @therealneils, and @adilmajit.

Three important revolutions shaped the course of history: the Cognitive Revolution kick-started history about 70,000 years ago. The Agricultural Revolution sped it up about 12,000 years ago. The Scientific Revolution, which got under way only 500 years ago, may well end history and start something completely different. This book tells the story of how these three revolutions have affected humans and their fellow organisms. <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari/dp/0062316095/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Sapiens by Yuval Harari</a> is one of those books that shapes how we think, as another lenses through which we can look at reality. It’s central theme is the evolution of Human History, and gives special importance to myths and shared ideologies. It explains how shared myths underlie human narrative and everything we find meaningful. There's a lot of power in these shared ideas because they end up regulating how a society and people function. We cover a wide range of topics, including: <ul> <li>The power of shared myths and their impact in Human History</li> <li>The Cognitive, Agricultural, and Writing Revolutions</li> <li>Why Sam Harris and Jordan B Peterson quarrel each other</li> <li>Why Agriculture counterintuitively fucked us up</li> <li>Self-perpetuating ideas and cultures</li> <li>Ideas to reduce the wealth gap</li> </ul> And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari/dp/0062316095/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari</a>! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our episode on <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/antifragile-nassim-taleb/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Antifragile by Nassim Taleb</a>, about why hunters are in better shape than gatherers, and <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Power-Myth-Joseph-Campbell/dp/0385418868/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell</a>, another book that explains the influence of shared mythology. Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we're running, special events, and more. Links from the Episode Mentioned in the show <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Cryptocurrency</a> [0:36] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/cryptocurrency-crash-course/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">theme episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Empires" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Age of Empires</a> [11:55]</li> <li><a href="https://meteuphoric.wordpress.com/2017/12/31/16417/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Why everything might have taken so long</a> [12:14]</li> <li><a href="https://www.23andme.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">23andMe</a> [17:56]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_ape_hypothesis" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Aquatic Ape Theory</a> [27:08]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Zoroastrians</a> [28:31]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cbermensch" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ubermensch</a> [41:41]</li> <li><a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/11/13/ancient-data-modern-math-and-the-hunt-for-11-lost-cities-of-the-bronze-age" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Ancient data, modern math and the hunt for 11 lost cities of the Bronze Age</a> [1:02:52]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_distribution" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pareto Distribution</a> [1:25:08]</li> <li><a href="https://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-series/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Hardcore History Podcast by Dan Carlin</a> [1:31:29]</li> </ul> Books mentioned <ul> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari/dp/0062316095/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Sapiens by Yuval Harari</a> (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/sapiens-yuval-noah-harari/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Darwins-Dangerous-Idea-Evolution-Meanings/dp/014016734X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1517345550&amp;sr=1-2&amp;keywords=Darwin%27s+Dangerous+Idea/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Darwin’s Dangerous Idea by Daniel Dennet</a> [1:54] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/darwins-dangerous-idea-by-daniel-dennett/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">book episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/G%C3%B6del-Escher-Bach-Eternal-Golden/dp/0465026567/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Gödel Escher Bach by Douglas Hofstadter</a> [1:54] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/godel-escher-bach-douglas-hofstadter/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/godel-escher-bach-douglas-hofstadter/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">book episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Finite-Infinite-Games-James-Carse/dp/1476731713/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Finite and Infinite Games</a> [1:54] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/finite-infinite-games-james-carse/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/finite-and-infinite-james-carse/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Made You Think episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Selfish-Gene-Anniversary-Landmark-Science/dp/0198788606/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1517345823&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=Selfish+Gene/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Selfish Gene</a> [4:10]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Discipline-Punish-Prison-Michel-Foucault/dp/0679752552/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Discipline and Punish by Michel Foucault</a> [4:21] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/discipline-punish-the-birth-of-the-prison-by-michael-foucault/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/discipline-and-punish-by-michel-foucault/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">book episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Rare-Earth-Complex-Uncommon-Universe/dp/0387952896/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1517851027&amp;sr=8-3&amp;keywords=rare+earth/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Rare Earth</a> [7:50]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Power-Myth-Joseph-Campbell/dp/0385418868/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell</a> [23:16] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/power-myth-joseph-campbell/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/power-myth-joseph-campbell/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">book episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Primitive-Mythology-Masks-Joseph-Campbell/dp/0140194436/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Primitive Mythology by Joseph Campbell</a> [28:41]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/What-Every-BODY-Saying-Speed-Reading/dp/0061438294/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> What Every Body is saying by Joe Navarro</a> [39:23] (<a href="http://www.nateliason.com/lessons/what-every-body-is-saying-joe-navarro/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/decipher-people-like-fbi-every-body-saying-joe-navarro/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">book episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Denial-Death-Ernest-Becker/dp/0684832402/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Denial of Death</a> [59:45] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/denial-of-death-ernest-becker/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/denial-of-death/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">book episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Lessons-History-Will-Durant/dp/143914995X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Lessons of History by Will and Ariel Durant</a> [1:25:45]</li> <li><a href="http://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-to-intervene-in-a-system/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Leverage Points by Donella Meadows</a> [1:26:34] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/leverage-points-by-donella-meadows/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">article episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Sovereign-Individual-Mastering-Transition-Information/dp/0684832720/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Sovereign Individual</a> [1:30:33] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/sovereign-individual/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/sovereign-individual/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">book episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Emergency-This-Book-Will-Save/dp/0060898771/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Emergency</a> [1:30:33] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/emergency-neil-strauss/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/emergency-neil-strauss/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">book episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Skin-Game-Hidden-Asymmetries-Daily/dp/042528462X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1521663435&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=skin+in+the+game/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Skin in the Game by Nassim Taleb</a> [1:33:15]</li> </ul> People mentioned <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuval_Noah_Harari" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yuval Noah Harari</a> (<a href="http://www.ynharari.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">official website</a>)</li> <li><a href="http://blog.adilmajid.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Adil Majid</a> [0:36] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/cryptocurrency-crash-course/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Crypto episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://samharris.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Sam Harris</a> [34:33] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/the-riddle-of-the-gun-by-sam-harris/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Guns episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://jordanbpeterson.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Jordan B. Peterson</a> [34:33] (<a href="https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">on Twitter</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/12-rules-for-life-by-dr-jordan-b-peterson/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">12 Rules episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassim_Nicholas_Taleb" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nassim Nicholas Taleb</a> [35:25] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/antifragile-nassim-taleb/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Antifragile episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="http://jockopodcast2.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Jocko</a> [51:51]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thiel" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Peter Thiel</a> [1:07:34]</li> <li><a href="http://www.hawking.org.uk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Stephen Hawking</a> [1:08:58]</li> </ul> Show Topics [1:29] The mechanism of shared myths where you end up doing what other people tell and reinforce about you scales very well to micro (relationship disputes) and macro levels (political movements). [5:48] How meaningless we humans are as a species. Being just like another animal. The path to genetic and technical advantages. The role of fire that helps us consume less energy when digesting food. Energy that can go to our relative big brains. [11:08] Agriculture seems to have sprung out all around the globe at the same time. The increasing pace of progression between ages. Domestication of wild plants and animals did not increase in the last 2000 years. [16:12] Tolerance and the extinction of Neanderthals. Two theories about the extinction of Neanderthals. The first based on the intolerance trait of Sapiens, leads to think they were the target of the most significant ethnic-cleansing campaign in history. The second, less probable, talks about interbreeding and mingling. French vestiges in Vietnam. [21:39] Cognitive, the first revolution, defined by language. We switch by chatting about resources or danger, to be able to communicate richly about abstract ideas. Shared methodology becomes our main competitive advantage in nature, with the ability to pass out knowledge. Poetry as a mnemonic technique (ability to remember more). [24:26] Challenges in interpretation of spoken languages. The Bible example. Jesus walking on water can be translated to walking by the water. There exist some evidence that The Big Flood really existed. [27:08] Why there's a limit to the size a community can bond together and the the role of religion or "shared myths and methodology" to get past this number. The fact that Sapiens were able to cooperate in larger groups may be one of the reasons they wiped out Neanderthals, despite their physical and mental superiority. [33:30] What reality means for Harris, Peterson, Taleb, and Hirari. The roots of the Sam Harris and Jordan B Peterson disagreement may lie on the definition of reality. Porcupine example: a lot of people believes porcupines shoot their quills, which is not true, but helps us not to get injured. There are too many variables to consider when interpreting our environment, but our minds can feel something is odd even if we can't rationalize it. [40:11] How some Cultures are able to self perpetuate. Islamism vs Judaism. [43:10] The omission of evidence does not mean omission in reality. The only evidence that has survived is the one recorded in physical devices. All immaterial things went lost. Stone Age should be called the Wood Age. [45:31] Agriculture. History's biggest fraud: The agricultural revolution didn't led to a better life, but to an explosion of population and diseases. Agriculture societies are more fragile. Introduction of the concept of private property. Differences between hunters and gatherers, and losing skills. In Social Media, as in Agriculture, is difficult to see the end game. Successful Evolution is generally counted by numbers, not quality of life. We think that we domesticated other species, but it seems we domesticated ourselves. [54:53] As gatherers we are more prone to less Black Swans, but more variability. History of yeast and weed domestication. [59:45] Pyramids as objects of cult. Past and modern pyramids. Multiple levels of games to conquer pyramids. Nomadic Lifestyle as a cult. [1:02:52] The Writing Revolution. The first use of writing was financial accounting records. The origin of different bases for counting. Base 6 or 24 for hours in a day, base 10 related to our digits, base 2 as a valid alternative. [1:05:09] Writing originated because of agriculture. Phoenicians were prolific writers, but their main support was papyrus which went lost. On the contrary, Egyptians wrote less but on walls, so we have much more records from them. Ways to codify an idea understandable by every creature and the NASA experiment. Would aliens look to us as annoying spiders or cute kittens? [1:12:40] The idea of justice is alien to history. Theories of male dominance in human history. Comparisons to other mammals that form non-male societies. [1:20:34] Institution of family related to the concept of private property. Marriage is thought to be beneficial for women, but there’s a theory that states is much more beneficial for (loser) men [1:24:05] The role of shared myths to perpetuate the status quo. Wealth goes to wealth, poverty back to poverty. The correcting mechanism trickle and stop. Ideas to stop wealth differences should reduce the compounding effect of each situation. Taxing more capital gains and less income tax, or distinguishing between founder's capital from investor capital may level the ground between rich and poor and stop self-perpetuating statuses. [1:32:06] Here ends Part 1 of Sapiens. Pick the book and read the rest before Part 2 comes out. Sponsors! Buy a <a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FY3U206/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Canon EOS D5 through Amazon</a> and help us support the show. <a href="https://www.kettleandfire.com/think" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kettle &amp; Fire</a> is our provider of fine bone broth. They've got beef, chicken, chicken with mushroom. It cures disease, or at least there's no side effect when trying to cure from sickness with it. <a href="https://www.kettleandfire.com/think" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Get up to 33% OFF with our link</a>. <a href="http://foursigmatic.com/think" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Four Sigmatic</a> make great mushroom drinks, elixirs, coffee, and chocolates. We suggest the Adaptogen, and the Cordyceps to picnic up later in the day. <a href="http://foursigmatic.com/think" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Get 10 to 15% discount with our link</a>. <a href="https://www.perfectketo.com/think" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Perfect Keto</a> is for all your ketosis needs. Really good products to get into and sustain ketosis. They have keto friendly protein powder, MCT oils, and nice pre-workout boost. Give us a <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/made-you-think/id1281256991?mt=2" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> review on iTunes</a>, tell your friends, but not on facebook because Nat deleted his profile. Register for the email list and you'll know about books that are coming. Hit us up on twitter, <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@nateliason</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/TheRealNeilS" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@therealneils</a>, and <a href="https://twitter.com/adilmajid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@adilmajit</a>.

33: An Animal of No Significance: Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari – Part I

David Deutsch

“It is inevitable that we face problems but no particular problem is inevitable we survive and thrive by solving each problem as it comes up, and since the human ability to transform nature is limited only by the laws of physics none of the endless stream of problems will ever constitute an impassable barrier” In this episode of Made You Think, Neil and Nat discuss  The Beginning of Infinity by David Deutsch. It’s a playful, meandering book on explanations that transform the world, covering evolution, physics, philosophy, politics, ecology, money, memetics, epistemology, history. It ties everything to the central idea that with enough knowledge anything possible, is achievable. “Every putative physical transformation to be performed in a given time with given resources or under any other conditions is either impossible because it is forbidden by the laws of nature or achievable given the right knowledge.” We cover a wide range of topics, including:  Wrapping our brains around the concepts of advanced topics like infinity Thinking of problems as a gap in our knowledge that can be solved The repeating cycle of problem &gt; solution &gt; new problem Tangents on Aquatic Apes, Egyptology and Sphinxes Universality of systems Optimistic vs Pessimistic view points  And so much more! Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of  The Beginning of Infinity by David Deutsch. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our episode on  Godel, Escher, Bach by Douglas Hofstadter for a similar kind of book covering a wide range of topics. Also our episode on  Leverage Points by Donella Meadows for how we should approach complex systems. Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we’re running, special events, and more. Links from the Episode Mentioned in the show  Lindy Effect [3:20] Multiverse Concept [5:03] Quantum Entanglement [5:05] Theory of relativity [5:13] Infinity [5:25] Cholera [8:17] Empiricism [11:38] Fallibilism [15:02] The Mediocrity Principle [18:50] Anthropocentrism [19:00] Geocentrism [19:38] Garden of Eden [20:35] Rare Earth Hypothesis [20:40] Anthropomorphism [22:20] Quantum Theory [26:22] Aquatic Apes [30:43] Darwin’s Dangerous Idea [31:32] Confirmation Bias [31:50] Universality [33:22] Roman Numerals [33:30] Hieroglyphics [35:42] Reductionism [39:50]  Lady Lovelace’s Objection [42:00] Chinese Room [48:00] Turing Test [48:02] DARPA [48:15] Netflix - Eddie Murphy Shows [50:55] Chris Rock - Controversial stand up [51:25] Chris Rock - Gun Control stand up [51:50] AlphaGo [52:43] MadeYouThink Podcast - Patreon Support [54:10] Death of the Universe [56:10] DMT [59:30] Neuralink [59:47]  Neural lace [59:48] Malthus [1:01:04] X Prize [1:07:50] The Jungle - Characters [1:08:35] Sphinx [1:10:17] Joe Rogan Experience Podcast - Sphinx Episode [1:10:17] Semmelweis Reflex [1:15:30] Kevin Simler - Crony Belief [1:20:25] The China Study [1:23:30] Dos Toros [1:27:05] Toms Shoes [1:28:52] Postmodernism [1:29:30] XKCD Comic - Purity of Fields [1:34:01]  Books mentioned   The Beginning of Infinity by David Deutsch  Gödel, Escher, Bach by Douglas R. Hofstadter [1:22] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  The Jungle by Upton Sinclair [3:36] (Nat’s notes)  Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand [3:39] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  Darwin’s Dangerous Idea by Daniel Dennett [3:56] (book episode)  The Denial of Death [8:55] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  The Rational Optimist by Matt Ridley [9:44]  I Am A Strange Loop - Douglas Hofstadter [17:20] (Podcast Episode)  Rare Earth by Donald Brownlee [20:25]  Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari [24:23] (Nat’s notes) (book episode  part 1 &amp;  part 2)  The Secret by Rhonda Byrne [25:56]  The Nicomachean Ethics by Aristotle [39:40]  Skin in the Game by Nassim Taleb [41:55] (Nat’s notes) (Neil’s notes) (book episode)  Homo Deus by Yuval Harari [43:45] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  The Elephant in the Brain by Kevin Simler and Robin Hanson [43:50]  The Jungle by Upton Sinclair [1:08:41] (Nat’s notes)  Leverage Points by Donella Meadows [1:29:20] (article episode)  Discipline and Punish by Michel Foucault [1:30:10] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  Merchants of Doubt by Naomi Oreskes and Erik M. Conway [1:33:05] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins [1:45:40]  People mentioned  David Deutsch Daniel Dennett [1:45] (Darwin’s episode) Flatgeologist [3:00] Nassim Nicholas Taleb [2:50] (Antifragile episode) (Skin in the Game episode) Seneca [8:40] Matt Ridley [9:33] Nicolas Cage [13:43] Socrates [16:55] [1:09:00] Hermes [16:56] Jordan Peterson [21:29] Richard Dawkins [23:35] John Haldane [23:36] Freud [40:55] Plato [1:10:00] Dan Carlin [1:43:30]  Show Topics 2:47 – In this book the author, David Deutsch, calls out some of the other authors that we have covered on the podcast before. He calls out Nassim Taleb on some of his ideas, which is something we almost hold sacred on this podcast. This book made us change the way we think about some of these things. 5:03 – Diving into advanced concepts like multiverse, quantum entanglement, relativity and infinity. You have to take your time to wrap your head around this. Our minds are not used to grasping these concepts. Explaining what’s the highest number to a kid. 7:00 – In the introduction the author says “all progress both theoretical and practical has resulted from a single human activity, the quest for what I call good explanations”. Everything is possible if it is not prohibited by the laws of physics. 8:10 – Deutsch uses the example of disease and cholera. People dying of diarrhea when they were right next to a fire and could have boiled their water. The problem was actually a problem of knowledge. A lot of problems we have today are the same and given the right amount of knowledge, can be solved. 8:55 – All other books that we have looked at, Seneca, Taleb and even the book Denial of Death. They all are predicated on the idea that we all will die. Deutsch says most likely yes we will die, but it doesn’t mean it’s not possible to solve. He isn’t saying there is one solution but there maybe solutions to each of the discrete problems - accidents, cancer etc, they are all problems waiting for the right knowledge to be able to solve them. 10:40 – Wealth as a society was another thing he called out in this book, as a species having the resources as well as the knowledge. Even if you had given cavemen the knowledge of how to build a plane, they don’t yet have the resources to get the metals out of the ground and shape the parts needed. Progress is a factor of both knowledge and wealth. 11:25 – He starts the book off in the intro with his refutation of empiricism, where we gain knowledge by experiencing things then learning from them. He makes this good distinction: “Experience is indeed essential to science but its role is different from that supposed by empiricism, it is not the source from which theories are derived its main use is to choose between theories that have already been guessed”. You really can’t learn from experience unless you have some guess about what should happen. You need to have conjecture or a hypothesis before you can actually test something. You’re trying to figure out what the truth might be. Startups “finding” insights in Big Data without an hypothesis to test. 15:00 – “Fallabilsts expect even their best and even most fundamental explanations to contain misconceptions in addition to truth and so they are predisposed to try to change them for the better.” This is like a life philosophy - anything you assume is true you should also assume part of it is wrong. Always look for ways to improve your understanding. 17:46 – Deutsch rounds out the first chapter by saying that “every problem is a signal that our knowledge is flawed or inaccurate.” Our goal as humans is to come up with better explanations which then inevitably leads to a new set of problems. That is this beginning of infinity, each problem leads to infinitely many more problems and the solutions that come with them. We are stuck with this continual loop of solve problem &gt; discover new one &gt; solve problem etc. The Principle of Mediocrity idea and Anti-Anthropocentrism. 23:20 – Deutsch says that humans can understand anything with enough time and knowledge. He is referencing John Haldane who said “The universe not only queerer than we suppose it is queerer than we can suppose”. Deutsch says that nothing is beyond our potential comprehension. 30:43 – Tangent. Aquatic Apes fringe theory. Go listen to Darwin’s dangerous idea episode. We don’t want the aquatic apes theory to be refuted, plus it would make a really good band name. 31:42 – Chapter 4. Form of infinities in the Universe: the process of biological evolution and knowledge growth. Ideas can be replicators same as genes can. 33:22 – Chapter 6. Universality. Some ideas are useful and functional in a contained, local sense and some make the jump to actually being universal and infinite. Roman Numerals were never really universal. It would always require more numerals to count higher and higher. Where as our Arabic system 0-9 they are just 10 symbols plus 1 rule, gives us an infinite number. Same as using an alphabet vs hieroglyphics, having a character represent a word, you will always need more characters. Asian scripts. 40:10 – Reductionism and the concept of the brain as a computer, the way we think about our brain is influenced by the technology of the day. Scaling problems. Knowledge creation for AI. Knowledge ownership. “First the brain was supposed to be like an immensely complicated set of gears and levers, then it was hydraulic pipes, then steam engines, then telephone exchanges, and now that computers are the most impressive technology brains are said to be computers. This is still no more than a metaphor and there is no more reason to expect a brain to be a computer than a steam engine” 47:55 – Tangent. Hofstadter and the DARPA Turing Test, AI joke creation and changing nature of humor through generations. Consciousness Test. 54:44 – Hotel Chapter. Understanding Infinity. Being at the beginning of infinite progress. Time subjective to our mental processing power. 1:00:11 – Optimism Chapter. All problems and evils in the world are caused by insufficient knowledge. All can be solved with enough knowledge. Evils are just situations where we haven’t solved the problem yet. There is never going to be a Garden of Eden state as you always unlock new problems. Deutsch says “We do not yet know what we have not yet discovered.” Sounds similar to the idea of blind faith, that we will just figure it out. We can be optimistic because if there is a necessity to solve something the market really impacts it, it’s a powerful corrective force. Investment and money gets put towards solving the problem. Ebola example. 1:08:33 – Multiverse Chapter. Funny dialogue between Socrates and Plato. 1:10:20 – Tangent. Sphinx theories, Egyptology and the Semmelweis reflex. Respecting and disproving Fringe Theories. Politics vs science in Medicine. 1:17:05 – Tangent. Anthropomorphising food. Now low cholesterol is tied to mortality causes. Where as previously high cholesterol was considered a huge health issue. Eating fat doesn’t make you fat, like Taleb says eating a cow doesn’t make you bovine. The cause for bull penis powder. 1:20:07 – Bad philosophies. Philosophies that prevents you from developing other philosophies. Religions, top-down theories, bad company traits. Crony beliefs. if you feel personally attacked when someone questions your belief, that shows it’s not a well reasoned idea and a bad philosophy for you – that may show you what you are believing because you want to. You often only believe things that are socially beneficial. Vegans, palm sugar, plastic activism, foreign orphanages and stupid activism. 1:29:40 – Postmodernism as bad philosophy. Problems in different types of Sciences. Explanational science. Tossing old knowledge requires an explanation. Chemical imbalance for depression. Second and third effects of drugs use. 1:39:41 – Politics Chapter. Separate essay. Beauty Chapter. There is objective universal beauty. Beauty in flowers and music. 1:45:33 – Evolution of Culture. Rational and anti-rational beliefs. Memes as a way of spreading ideas “Consider how you would be judged by other people if you went shopping in your pajamas or painted your house with blue and brown stripes - that gives a hint of the narrowness of convention that govern these objectively trivial inconsequential choices about style and the social cost of violating them. Is the same thing true of the more momentous patterns in our lives, careers, relationships, education, morality, political outlook and national identity. Consider what we expect to happen when a static society is gradually switching from anti-rational to rational memes”. Liberalism-conservatism conflict. Turning child into political statements. 1:58:15 – The Unsustainable Chapter. Easter Island culture diminished as they didn’t solve their problems. We often think things are finite when they can be solved in other ways. Pessimistic and Optimistic conceptions. “Pessimistic conception is that humans are wasters - they take precious resources and madly convert them into useless coloured pictures. This is true of static societies those statues were what my colleagues were what color televisions which is why comparing our culture with the old society of Easter Island is wrong - we are not a static society. The optimistic conception is that people are problem solvers, creators of the unsustainable solution and hence also of the next problem. In the pessimistic conception that distinctive ability of people is a disease for which sustainability is the cure - sustainability is the disease and people are the cure.” Trying to get people to work against their selfish desires isn’t going to work, so find a way to make what you want to work out for the greater good. For example with hotels and reducing washing. It’s a win-win for both the hotel and the environment. They will then encourage environmental acts like that. If it cost them money then they would not encourage that. "What lies ahead of us in any case, is in any case infinity - all we can choose is if it is an infinity of ignorance or of knowledge, wrong or right, death or life." 2:03:48 – Subscribe to Patreon to get our book notes, highlights, bonus material and more for the price of a book. Also, Nat will stop doing saying “it will make you think” once Patreon hits 10k. Participate of the private community! Leave us a review on  iTunes to get possible guests on the show. You can write just a 1 sentence description of the show and how you like the tangents. Check our supporters at madeyouthink.com/support. We are drinking delicious Lapsang Souchong tea from Cup &amp; Leaf. If you want some tangent fuel, try the Mushroom Lemonade  Coffee and Chai Latte from Four Sigmatic. Perfect Keto Nut Butter is amazing. Try it frozen for an incredible texture. Check Kettle &amp; Fire Mushroom-Chicken blend, now available on their site. Use our  Amazon affiliate link, it doesn’t costs you anything extra and helps support the show. Keep tweeting to us at @Neil Soni (@TheRealNeilS) and @Nat Eliason (@nateliason). If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com

45: More Knowledge, More Problems. The Beginning of Infinity by David Deutsch

Naomi Oreskes

Erik M. Cornway

“If we read an article in the newspaper presenting two opposing viewpoints, we assume both have validity, and we think it would be wrong to shut one side down. But often one side is represented only by a single ‘expert’.” In this episode of Made You Think, Neil and I discuss  Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming, by Naomi Oreskes and Erik M. Conway. In this book, Oreskes and Cornway talk about media and science, and scientific consensus that became controversial in the public eye — from the SDI to tobacco to global warming. “Rome may not be burning, but Greenland is melting, and we are still fiddling. We all need a better understanding of what science really is, how to recognize real science when we see it, and how to separate it from the garbage.” We cover a wide range of topics, including:  The tobacco industry and the regulations on smoking today Global Warming and all its many causes. Are all causes equally serious? How media talks about science and creates controversial topics out of scientific consensus The SDI and nuclear winter The sugar industry vs working out  And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of  Merchants of Doubts by Naomi Oreskes and Erik M. Conway! Links from the Episode Mentioned in the show  Flatgeologists [0:49] Strategic Defense Initiative [2:05] DDT Pesticide [2:19] The Sugar Film (2014) [06:05] Neighbourhood Effect [16:27] Tragedy of the Commons [16:27] Magnetic Resonance Imaging – MRI [18:30] Toshiba Corporation [18:30] Yamaha Corporation [18:30] The Spacex Launch [19:10] Black Mirror: Men Against Fire [22:06] Jordan Peterson’s interview on Channel 4 [26:24] Futurama: Crimes of the Hot [27:58] Mutual Assured Destruction Doctrine [32:30]  CFC – Chlorofluorocarbons and Ozone depletion [38:06] Philip Morris USA [51:50] Krispy Kreme [53:48] Moore’s Law [1:14:08]  Books mentioned   Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman [1:13] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode)  The Gospel of Wealth by Andrew Carnegie [15:14]  Principles: Life and Work by Ray Dalio [18:42] (Nat’s Notes) (book episode)  Command and Control: Nuclear Weapons, the Damascus Accident, and the Illusion of Safety by Eric Schlosser [31:40]  12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson [1:07:16] (Nat's Notes) (Neil's Notes) (book episode)  The Rational Optimist: How Prosperity Evolves by Matt Ridley [01:09:35] (Nat's Notes)  People mentioned  Naomi Oreskes Erik M. Conway Elon Musk [1:05] [28:00] [39:30] (on this podcast) Michelle Obama [10:25] Andrew Carnegie [15:07] Adolf Hitler [21:34] Jordan B. Peterson [21:27] (on this podcast) Nassim Nicholas Taleb [27:08] (on this podcast) Ronald Reagan [31:18] Richard Feynman [35:20] Freeman Dyson [35:34] Carl Sagan [36:43] S. Fred Singer [42:16]  Show Topics 0:44 — Science and media. Topics that have become controversial in the public sphere, through media, that weren’t so within the scientific community; tobacco, the sugar industry, pesticides, etc. 03:58 — The sugar industry and its history of media deception; people’s perceptions on sugar, then and now. The industry’s attempts of bettering their images as sugar is more and more seen as unhealthy. 07:21 — Sugar and artificial sugar: its effects on your body and microbiota. The inexistent proofs that help losing weight. 09:16 — What about exercise? The food industries’ attempts to shift responsibility for health and fitness into “lack of exercise”, overblowing the importance of exercising. 11:05 — Two issues that are not necessarily separated by the book: on one hand, people should be better informed of the risks of their behaviors, like eating sugar, or drinking. On the other hand, should they not be allowed to engage in certain behaviors? Or simply have awareness of the risks if they do engage? Advocating for control, instead of banning, like the taxing on the tobacco industry. 13:15 — The public perception of tobacco as incredibly dangerous, and different perspectives in different countries. 15:21 — The conclusion of the book helps understands the author’s overall thesis. Many people who fought back against restrictions to industries had been Cold War veterans, looking to protect free market. There are certain areas in which free market doesn’t work, like air quality. 17:47 — Regulation is the mother of innovation: they force people to create new solutions, often starting from the beginning. 20:05 — Surprisingly, Hitler banned cigarettes once it was known they were lethal. He had various issues with what he considered “dirty” or “unclean”, which links back to his view of the people he persecuted. 22:35 — All the Nazi research regarding smoke got discredit following their defeat, since no one wanted to use nazist research. But were there such qualms about other research, like rocket science? Is it ethic at all to use research created unethically? 24:06 — Likewise, many studies for controversial topics just can’t be conducted for ethical reasons, or at times there’s too many variables. Epidemiology is useful in this case; though correlation doesn’t necessarily means causation. 25:55 — Climate change, and how its many causes often get simplified to just one problem. And even if we’re wrong about its causes, isn’t it too dangerous to ignore the chance human intervention is responsible? 29:41 — Good science focuses on what’s not yet known; but media often then latches on to these doubts, advertising what scientist don’t know and obscuring the science of what they do know. 30:48 — The SDI: Reagan's program against nuclear strikes through satellites. Was it a serious project? Was it a proposital rumor? Could it have started a nuclear war? How did the idea get so far when it had such opposition? 35:10 — Richard Feynman, Freeman Dyson, and their views on nuclear winter and global warming: two issues that were somehow conflated. Were the models being used accurate? 36:34 — Scientists often focus on areas of doubt, rather than what is already known. A topic largely discussed in the book is that scientists aren’t necessarily good at understanding public policy, media, or how to get their ideas across to the public and vice-versa. 38:06 — CFCs. Once again, many factors contributed to the damage to the ozone layer, but all were given equal weight when certain factors were much more damaging than others. The same was done regarding skin cancers, where many other factors were pointed out that were true, but not as relevant. This seems to be a common tactic to detract from central issues. 43:58 — Second-handed smoking and e-cigarettes: are they as dangerous as regular cigarettes? What of second-hand damages that come with alcohol, like drunk driving? Should alcohol and driving be more strictly regulated? 51:05 — The companies knew what they were doing: memos from tobacco companies show their strategy of trying to keep the doubt on whether or not cigarettes were bad for your health. The ethical dilemma around working for such companies. 54:46 — School’s approach to drug education: are abstinence arguments really effective, or are them increasing drug use? Alternative methods for decreasing drug use and its harmful effects. 01:00:45 — Global Warming is still very much a current issue. What arguments that are in vogue today could be misinformation? It can be difficult to find a balance between suspecting statements that challenge the current scientific consensus, and not completely shutting them down. 01:05:00 — The book has a critical stance on Capitalism and Technology. “Technology won’t save us”. However, it is possible to join business and sustainability. 01:09:30 — The book has a certain one-sided point of view, which can be true for most of the topics discussed, but can also be a dangerous attitude. Radical changes are also much more difficult to execute, such as suddenly switching entirely away from fossil fuels. 01:12:24 — Alternatives to developing without fossil fuels. What about nuclear power? Could that be a solid green alternative? Can solar power progress as fast as our technological needs? 01:18:05 — Sponsors time. You can support us by going through our Amazon sponsored link, and buy iPads for your family, Louis Vuitton bag, or maybe puppies in the future. Use Perfecto Keto for all your keto needs. Try the Coffee Flavored Exogenous Ketones and the MCT oil powders. Try their new MCT oil to help you achieve perfect hair. “If you stop using shampoo, your hair starts being a barometer of your health”. Kettle &amp; Fire’s bone broths will help you keep up your health, and you can put it in your hair, if you want! And Four Sigmatic for all your mushroom coffee needs and reduce your caffeine intake, though unfortunately it will not help you achieve the perfect hair. Check always our Support page. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com

“If we read an article in the newspaper presenting two opposing viewpoints, we assume both have validity, and we think it would be wrong to shut one side down. But often one side is represented only by a single ‘expert’.” In this episode of Made You Think, Neil and I discuss <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Merchants-Doubt-Handful-Scientists-Obscured/dp/1608193942/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1519935894&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=merchants+of+doubt" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming, by Naomi Oreskes and Erik M. Conway</a>. In this book, Oreskes and Cornway talk about media and science, and scientific consensus that became controversial in the public eye — from the SDI to tobacco to global warming. “Rome may not be burning, but Greenland is melting, and we are still fiddling. We all need a better understanding of what science really is, how to recognize real science when we see it, and how to separate it from the garbage.” We cover a wide range of topics, including: <ul> <li>The tobacco industry and the regulations on smoking today</li> <li>Global Warming and all its many causes. Are all causes equally serious?</li> <li>How media talks about science and creates controversial topics out of scientific consensus</li> <li>The SDI and nuclear winter</li> <li>The sugar industry vs working out</li> </ul> And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Merchants-Doubt-Handful-Scientists-Obscured/dp/1608193942/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1519935894&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=merchants+of+doubt" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Merchants of Doubts by Naomi Oreskes and Erik M. Conway</a>! Links from the Episode Mentioned in the show <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Flatgeologists</a> [0:49]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Strategic Defense Initiative</a> [2:05]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">DDT Pesticide</a> [2:19]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That_Sugar_Film" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Sugar Film (2014)</a> [06:05]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighbourhood_effect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neighbourhood Effect</a> [16:27]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Tragedy of the Commons</a> [16:27]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_resonance_imaging" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Magnetic Resonance Imaging – MRI</a> [18:30]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshiba" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Toshiba Corporation</a> [18:30]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_Corporation" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yamaha Corporation</a> [18:30]</li> <li><a href="http://www.spacex.com/news" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Spacex Launch</a> [19:10]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Against_Fire" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Black Mirror: Men Against Fire</a> [22:06]</li> <li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Jordan Peterson’s interview on Channel 4</a> [26:24]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_of_the_Hot" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Futurama: Crimes of the Hot</a> [27:58]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Mutual Assured Destruction Doctrine</a> [32:30]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion#CFCs_and_related_compounds_in_the_atmosphere" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> CFC – Chlorofluorocarbons and Ozone depletion</a> [38:06]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Morris_USA" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Philip Morris USA</a> [51:50]</li> <li><a href="http://www.krispykreme.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Krispy Kreme</a> [53:48]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Moore’s Law</a> [1:14:08]</li> </ul> Books mentioned <ul> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman</a> [1:13] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/amusing-death-neil-postman/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/amusing-ourselves-to-death-neil-postman/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">book episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Gospel-Wealth-Andrew-Carnegie/dp/1983566128/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Gospel of Wealth by Andrew Carnegie</a> [15:14]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Life-Work-Ray-Dalio/dp/1501124021/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Principles: Life and Work by Ray Dalio</a> [18:42] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/principles-ray-dalio/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/principles-ray-dalio/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">book episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Command-Control-Damascus-Accident-Illusion/dp/0143125788/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Command and Control: Nuclear Weapons, the Damascus Accident, and the Illusion of Safety by Eric Schlosser</a> [31:40]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/12-Rules-Life-Antidote-Chaos/dp/0345816021/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> 12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson</a> [1:07:16] (<a href="http://www.nateliason.com/lessons/12-rules-for-life-jordan-peterson/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Notes</a>) (<a href="http://www.neilsoni.com/12-rules-for-life-key-takeaways/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil's Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/12-rules-for-life-by-dr-jordan-b-peterson/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">book episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Rational-Optimist-How-Prosperity-Evolves-ebook/dp/B003ODI67E/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Rational Optimist: How Prosperity Evolves by Matt Ridley</a> [01:09:35] (<a href="http://www.nateliason.com/lessons/the-rational-optimist-matt-ridley/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat's Notes</a>)</li> </ul> People mentioned <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Oreskes" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Naomi Oreskes</a></li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_M._Conway" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Erik M. Conway</a></li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Elon Musk</a> [1:05] [28:00] [39:30] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/think-like-elon-musk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">on this podcast</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_obama" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Michelle Obama</a> [10:25]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Carnegie" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Andrew Carnegie</a> [15:07]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Adolf Hitler</a> [21:34]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Jordan B. Peterson</a> [21:27] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/12-rules-for-life-by-dr-jordan-b-peterson/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">on this podcast</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassim_Nicholas_Taleb" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nassim Nicholas Taleb</a> [27:08] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/antifragile-nassim-taleb/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">on this podcast</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ronald Reagan</a> [31:18]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Richard Feynman</a> [35:20]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeman_Dyson" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Freeman Dyson</a> [35:34]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Carl Sagan</a> [36:43]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Singer" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">S. Fred Singer</a> [42:16]</li> </ul> Show Topics 0:44 — Science and media. Topics that have become controversial in the public sphere, through media, that weren’t so within the scientific community; tobacco, the sugar industry, pesticides, etc. 03:58 — The sugar industry and its history of media deception; people’s perceptions on sugar, then and now. The industry’s attempts of bettering their images as sugar is more and more seen as unhealthy. 07:21 — Sugar and artificial sugar: its effects on your body and microbiota. The inexistent proofs that help losing weight. 09:16 — What about exercise? The food industries’ attempts to shift responsibility for health and fitness into “lack of exercise”, overblowing the importance of exercising. 11:05 — Two issues that are not necessarily separated by the book: on one hand, people should be better informed of the risks of their behaviors, like eating sugar, or drinking. On the other hand, should they not be allowed to engage in certain behaviors? Or simply have awareness of the risks if they do engage? Advocating for control, instead of banning, like the taxing on the tobacco industry. 13:15 — The public perception of tobacco as incredibly dangerous, and different perspectives in different countries. 15:21 — The conclusion of the book helps understands the author’s overall thesis. Many people who fought back against restrictions to industries had been Cold War veterans, looking to protect free market. There are certain areas in which free market doesn’t work, like air quality. 17:47 — Regulation is the mother of innovation: they force people to create new solutions, often starting from the beginning. 20:05 — Surprisingly, Hitler banned cigarettes once it was known they were lethal. He had various issues with what he considered “dirty” or “unclean”, which links back to his view of the people he persecuted. 22:35 — All the Nazi research regarding smoke got discredit following their defeat, since no one wanted to use nazist research. But were there such qualms about other research, like rocket science? Is it ethic at all to use research created unethically? 24:06 — Likewise, many studies for controversial topics just can’t be conducted for ethical reasons, or at times there’s too many variables. Epidemiology is useful in this case; though correlation doesn’t necessarily means causation. 25:55 — Climate change, and how its many causes often get simplified to just one problem. And even if we’re wrong about its causes, isn’t it too dangerous to ignore the chance human intervention is responsible? 29:41 — Good science focuses on what’s not yet known; but media often then latches on to these doubts, advertising what scientist don’t know and obscuring the science of what they do know. 30:48 — The SDI: Reagan's program against nuclear strikes through satellites. Was it a serious project? Was it a proposital rumor? Could it have started a nuclear war? How did the idea get so far when it had such opposition? 35:10 — Richard Feynman, Freeman Dyson, and their views on nuclear winter and global warming: two issues that were somehow conflated. Were the models being used accurate? 36:34 — Scientists often focus on areas of doubt, rather than what is already known. A topic largely discussed in the book is that scientists aren’t necessarily good at understanding public policy, media, or how to get their ideas across to the public and vice-versa. 38:06 — CFCs. Once again, many factors contributed to the damage to the ozone layer, but all were given equal weight when certain factors were much more damaging than others. The same was done regarding skin cancers, where many other factors were pointed out that were true, but not as relevant. This seems to be a common tactic to detract from central issues. 43:58 — Second-handed smoking and e-cigarettes: are they as dangerous as regular cigarettes? What of second-hand damages that come with alcohol, like drunk driving? Should alcohol and driving be more strictly regulated? 51:05 — The companies knew what they were doing: memos from tobacco companies show their strategy of trying to keep the doubt on whether or not cigarettes were bad for your health. The ethical dilemma around working for such companies. 54:46 — School’s approach to drug education: are abstinence arguments really effective, or are them increasing drug use? Alternative methods for decreasing drug use and its harmful effects. 01:00:45 — Global Warming is still very much a current issue. What arguments that are in vogue today could be misinformation? It can be difficult to find a balance between suspecting statements that challenge the current scientific consensus, and not completely shutting them down. 01:05:00 — The book has a critical stance on Capitalism and Technology. “Technology won’t save us”. However, it is possible to join business and sustainability. 01:09:30 — The book has a certain one-sided point of view, which can be true for most of the topics discussed, but can also be a dangerous attitude. Radical changes are also much more difficult to execute, such as suddenly switching entirely away from fossil fuels. 01:12:24 — Alternatives to developing without fossil fuels. What about nuclear power? Could that be a solid green alternative? Can solar power progress as fast as our technological needs? 01:18:05 — Sponsors time. You can support us by going through our <a href="https://www.amazon.com/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Amazon sponsored link</a>, and buy iPads for your family, Louis Vuitton bag, or maybe puppies in the future. Use <a href="https://www.perfectketo.com/think" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Perfecto Keto</a> for all your keto needs. Try the Coffee Flavored Exogenous Ketones and the MCT oil powders. Try their new MCT oil to help you achieve perfect hair. “If you <a href="https://www.nateliason.com/no-shampoo/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">stop using shampoo</a>, your hair starts being a barometer of your health”. <a href="https://www.kettleandfire.com/think" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kettle &amp; Fire</a>’s bone broths will help you keep up your health, and you can put it in your hair, if you want! And <a href="http://foursigmatic.com/think" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Four Sigmatic</a> for all your mushroom coffee needs and reduce your caffeine intake, though unfortunately it will not help you achieve the perfect hair. Check always our <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/support/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Support page</a>. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com</a>

27: How to Buy Fake Science: Merchants of Doubt by Naomi Oreskes and Erik M. Cornway

Douglas Hofstadter

The strange loop phenomenon occurs whenever by moving upwards or downwards through the levels of some hierarchical system, we unexpectedly find ourselves right back where we started. Godel Escher Bach is one of the most complex books Neil and I have ever read. It will have you thinking about minds, intelligence, AI, and reality in an entirely new way. It weaves together insights from music, art, mathematics, ant colonies, Lewis Carroll stories, and more unexpected places into a new understanding of how our minds work and how we might program computers to emulate them. You don’t want to miss it. We covered a wide range of topics, including:  What strange loops are and their presence in reality Unique perspectives on the strange loops of the mind, intelligence, and artificial intelligence The possibility of living in a simulation Defining intelligence and artificial intelligence Collective consciousness systems How art, music, and math relate with these strange loops Extra-sensory perception  And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab  a copy of Godel Escher Bach and to check out  Nat’s notes on the book! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our episode on  The Way of Zen by Alan Watts, to learn about Zen Buddhism and improving your life with it, and our episode on  Letters from a Stoic by Seneca, to learn ancient wisdom for a better life. Mentioned in the show:  E-Mu systems [4:03] Principia Mathematica [4:58]  Constant of recursion [5:50] Pulitzer Prize [7:35]  American Mathematical Monthly [7:59]  Godel Incompleteness Theorem [9:36] M.C. Escher paintings [15:15] The Never Ending Staircase [15:25] Inception movie [15:42]  Man in an art gallery white space painting [16:20]  Hands drawing hands [16:30] Turing test [39:06]  Microsoft Twitter AI experiment [40:00] GoAI [41:03]  Deep Blue program [42:03] Jung’s collective consciousness [58:18] Epimenides Paradox [1:09:24]  Books mentioned:   Godel, Escher, Bach (Nat’s Notes)  Nick Bostrom’s Superintelligence [2:08]  The Way of Zen [3:15] (Nat’s Notes) (Neil’s Notes) (MYT episode)  Atlas Shrugged [7:30]  In Praise of Idleness [9:49] (Nat’s Notes) (MYT episode)  Sapiens [51:14] (Nat’s Notes)  The Power of Habit [54:16] (Nat’s Notes)  Antifragile [55:00] (Nat’s Notes) (MYT episode)  The Red Book [59:16]  The Power of Myth [1:00:28] (Nat’s Notes) (MYT episode)  Emergency [1:02:26] (Nat’s Notes) (MYT episode)  Amusing Ourselves to Death [1:16:58] (Nat’s Notes) (MYT episode)  People mentioned:  Douglas Hofstadter Godel Escher Bach Elon Musk [2:05] Nick Bostrom [2:08] Lewis Carroll [6:06] Jeremy Bernstein [8:09] Bertrand Russell [9:49] Leonhard Euler [10:55] Isaac Newton [10:56] Charles Duhigg [54:16] Carl Jung [58:18] Dr. Jordan Peterson [59:54] Alan Turing [1:02:35]  0:00 - Introductory quote from the book, some information on the book, and some connections that the book makes. 3:24 - Some thoughts on the book, the logic and mathematics in the book, how it is constructed, and the exercises in the book. 7:49 - A couple of the quotes found on the back of the book and an in-depth discussion about the first section on Godel’s incompleteness theorem. Also, discussion on the strange loops with this theorem. 14:09 - The strange loop idea on making decisions, the incompleteness of all systems, and the strange loop from Escher with the never-ending staircase. Also, some other examples by Escher regarding loops. 18:18 - What defines an incomplete system, an example of this, paradoxes, and the multiple layers that define things. 20:19 - The strange loops within our own consciousness and relating these to death. Also, thoughts on the extreme complexity of the world.   22:28 - Discussion about creating artificial intelligence and how strange loops relate to that. Some discussion on a collective intelligence and some thoughts on us being a part of a collective intelligence, as well. 25:40 - Some examples of us being a collective system, like ant colonies or cells. Also, thoughts on our memory, data storage, and how it relates to constructing intelligence and consciousness. 30:25 - The idea of what intelligence exactly is, evolutionary pressures, and thoughts on whether technology will ever be able to experience emotion and gratitude. Some discussion on intelligence versus consciousness, as well. 33:20 - Thoughts on artificial intelligence and programming in intelligence and emotion into these artificial intelligence systems. 35:02 - How the book is more about a series of essays on these various topics, and how the author is just presenting his ideas and concepts for people to discuss. 35:39 - A quote from the book on recognizing another intelligence and the limiting perspective we each have. How we can never exactly know what another thing is experiencing or thinking. 37:22 - Thoughts on us living in a simulation and how we may never know since we cannot step out of the system and observe it as a third-party. 39:06 - Thoughts on the Turing test and it relating to intelligence in technology. Also, whether conversation and chess can be a suitable measure of intelligence, and thoughts on artificial intelligence beating us at certain things. 43:13 - How the Deep Blue program works and how excellent chess players don’t even see bad moves, they just know. Thoughts on intuition and intuition in artificial intelligence. 45:31 - Thinking computers and processing power, and lower level processes. Also, what core lessons can be learned from this book and some more thoughts on the simulation theory. 49:15 - Discussion on the sense of self, the evolution of artificial intelligence, the huge power of the internet, and how we’ve domesticated wheat. 53:27 - More thoughts on the collective consciousness and the correlation between termite mounds and us. Also, how many structures may exist that we can’t perceive due to not having the ability to, similar to termites and ants with their structures. 57:21 - How just creating the binary system isn’t enough due to cause intelligence and the strange loops with this. Also, the collective symbols that exist between one another and thoughts on these exist. 1:00:27 - How our fears may affect what mythological stories stick and persist. 1:02:32 - Alan Turing and extra-sensory perception, and thoughts on ESP being real. 1:06:10 - The strange loop of questioning our own sanity and how questioning our sanity creates this tighter and tighter vortex of uncertainty. Also, this relating to questioning living in a simulation. Thoughts on solipsism, as well. 1:09:09 - The necessity of strange loops and if a system is self-referential, it has strange loops. The Epimenides paradox and self-referential paradoxes. Also, discussion on our symbol pattern recognizing system. 1:15:15 - Stoicism’s perspective on thinking about death versus Zen Buddhism’s perspective on thinking about death. 1:16:30 - Wrap-up and some closing thoughts on the book. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com

The strange loop phenomenon occurs whenever by moving upwards or downwards through the levels of some hierarchical system, we unexpectedly find ourselves right back where we started. Godel Escher Bach is one of the most complex books Neil and I have ever read. It will have you thinking about minds, intelligence, AI, and reality in an entirely new way. It weaves together insights from music, art, mathematics, ant colonies, Lewis Carroll stories, and more unexpected places into a new understanding of how our minds work and how we might program computers to emulate them. You don’t want to miss it. We covered a wide range of topics, including: <ul> <li>What strange loops are and their presence in reality</li> <li>Unique perspectives on the strange loops of the mind, intelligence, and artificial intelligence</li> <li>The possibility of living in a simulation</li> <li>Defining intelligence and artificial intelligence</li> <li>Collective consciousness systems</li> <li>How art, music, and math relate with these strange loops</li> <li>Extra-sensory perception</li> </ul> And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab <a href="https://www.amazon.com/G%C3%B6del-Escher-Bach-Eternal-Golden/dp/0465026567/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> a copy of Godel Escher Bach</a> and to check out <a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/godel-escher-bach-douglas-hofstadter/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Nat’s notes on the book</a>! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our episode on <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/the-way-of-zen-alan-watts/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Way of Zen by Alan Watts</a>, to learn about Zen Buddhism and improving your life with it, and our episode on <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/letters-stoic-seneca/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Letters from a Stoic by Seneca</a>, to learn ancient wisdom for a better life. Mentioned in the show: <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-mu_Systems" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">E-Mu systems</a> [4:03]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principia_Mathematica" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Principia Mathematica</a> [4:58]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursion_(computer_science)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Constant of recursion</a> [5:50]</li> <li><a href="http://www.pulitzer.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pulitzer Prize</a> [7:35]</li> <li><a href="https://www.maa.org/press/periodicals/american-mathematical-monthly" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> American Mathematical Monthly</a> [7:59]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Godel Incompleteness Theorem</a> [9:36]</li> <li><a href="http://www.mcescher.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">M.C. Escher paintings</a> [15:15]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penrose_stairs" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Never Ending Staircase</a> [15:25]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inception" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Inception movie</a> [15:42]</li> <li><a href="http://escherdroste.math.leidenuniv.nl/images/scan450.jpg" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Man in an art gallery white space painting</a> [16:20]</li> <li><a href="http://www.mcescher.com/gallery/back-in-holland/drawing-hands/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Hands drawing hands</a> [16:30]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Turing test</a> [39:06]</li> <li><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/24/tay-microsofts-ai-chatbot-gets-a-crash-course-in-racism-from-twitter" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Microsoft Twitter AI experiment</a> [40:00]</li> <li><a href="http://gpuopenanalytics.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">GoAI</a> [41:03]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Blue_(chess_computer)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Deep Blue program</a> [42:03]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_unconscious" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Jung’s collective consciousness</a> [58:18]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Epimenides Paradox</a> [1:09:24]</li> </ul> Books mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/G%C3%B6del-Escher-Bach-Eternal-Golden/dp/0465026567/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Godel, Escher, Bach</a> (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/godel-escher-bach-douglas-hofstadter/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Superintelligence-Dangers-Strategies-Nick-Bostrom/dp/1501227742/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Nick Bostrom’s Superintelligence</a> [2:08]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Way-Zen-Alan-W-Watts/dp/0375705104/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Way of Zen</a> [3:15] (Nat’s Notes) (<a href="http://www.neilsoni.com/the-way-of-zen-key-takeaways/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/the-way-of-zen-alan-watts/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">MYT episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Shrugged-Ayn-Rand/dp/0451191145/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Atlas Shrugged</a> [7:30]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Praise-Idleness-Essays-Routledge-Classics/dp/0415325064/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> In Praise of Idleness</a> [9:49] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/praise-idleness-bertrand-russell/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/in-praise-of-idleness/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">MYT episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari/dp/0062316095/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Sapiens</a> [51:14] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/sapiens-yuval-noah-harari/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Power-Habit-What-Life-Business/dp/081298160X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Power of Habit</a> [54:16] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/power-habit-charles-duhigg/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Antifragile-Things-That-Disorder-Incerto/dp/0812979680/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Antifragile</a> [55:00] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/antifragile/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/antifragile-nassim-taleb/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">MYT episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Red-Book-Philemon-C-Jung/dp/0393065677/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Red Book</a> [59:16]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Power-Myth-Joseph-Campbell/dp/0385418868/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Power of Myth</a> [1:00:28] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/power-myth-joseph-campbell/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/power-myth-joseph-campbell/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">MYT episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Emergency-This-Book-Will-Save/dp/0060898771/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Emergency</a> [1:02:26] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/emergency-neil-strauss/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/emergency-neil-strauss/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">MYT episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Amusing Ourselves to Death</a> [1:16:58] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/amusing-death-neil-postman/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/amusing-ourselves-to-death-neil-postman/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">MYT episode</a>)</li> </ul> People mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Hofstadter" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Douglas Hofstadter</a></li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_G%C3%B6del" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Godel</a></li> <li><a href="http://www.mcescher.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Escher</a></li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Sebastian_Bach" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Bach</a></li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Elon Musk</a> [2:05]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Bostrom" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nick Bostrom</a> [2:08]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Carroll" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lewis Carroll</a> [6:06]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bernstein" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Jeremy Bernstein</a> [8:09]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Bertrand Russell</a> [9:49]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonhard_Euler" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Leonhard Euler</a> [10:55]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Isaac Newton</a> [10:56]</li> <li><a href="http://charlesduhigg.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Charles Duhigg</a> [54:16]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Carl Jung</a> [58:18]</li> <li><a href="https://jordanbpeterson.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Dr. Jordan Peterson</a> [59:54]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alan Turing</a> [1:02:35]</li> </ul> 0:00 - Introductory quote from the book, some information on the book, and some connections that the book makes. 3:24 - Some thoughts on the book, the logic and mathematics in the book, how it is constructed, and the exercises in the book. 7:49 - A couple of the quotes found on the back of the book and an in-depth discussion about the first section on Godel’s incompleteness theorem. Also, discussion on the strange loops with this theorem. 14:09 - The strange loop idea on making decisions, the incompleteness of all systems, and the strange loop from Escher with the never-ending staircase. Also, some other examples by Escher regarding loops. 18:18 - What defines an incomplete system, an example of this, paradoxes, and the multiple layers that define things. 20:19 - The strange loops within our own consciousness and relating these to death. Also, thoughts on the extreme complexity of the world. 22:28 - Discussion about creating artificial intelligence and how strange loops relate to that. Some discussion on a collective intelligence and some thoughts on us being a part of a collective intelligence, as well. 25:40 - Some examples of us being a collective system, like ant colonies or cells. Also, thoughts on our memory, data storage, and how it relates to constructing intelligence and consciousness. 30:25 - The idea of what intelligence exactly is, evolutionary pressures, and thoughts on whether technology will ever be able to experience emotion and gratitude. Some discussion on intelligence versus consciousness, as well. 33:20 - Thoughts on artificial intelligence and programming in intelligence and emotion into these artificial intelligence systems. 35:02 - How the book is more about a series of essays on these various topics, and how the author is just presenting his ideas and concepts for people to discuss. 35:39 - A quote from the book on recognizing another intelligence and the limiting perspective we each have. How we can never exactly know what another thing is experiencing or thinking. 37:22 - Thoughts on us living in a simulation and how we may never know since we cannot step out of the system and observe it as a third-party. 39:06 - Thoughts on the Turing test and it relating to intelligence in technology. Also, whether conversation and chess can be a suitable measure of intelligence, and thoughts on artificial intelligence beating us at certain things. 43:13 - How the Deep Blue program works and how excellent chess players don’t even see bad moves, they just know. Thoughts on intuition and intuition in artificial intelligence. 45:31 - Thinking computers and processing power, and lower level processes. Also, what core lessons can be learned from this book and some more thoughts on the simulation theory. 49:15 - Discussion on the sense of self, the evolution of artificial intelligence, the huge power of the internet, and how we’ve domesticated wheat. 53:27 - More thoughts on the collective consciousness and the correlation between termite mounds and us. Also, how many structures may exist that we can’t perceive due to not having the ability to, similar to termites and ants with their structures. 57:21 - How just creating the binary system isn’t enough due to cause intelligence and the strange loops with this. Also, the collective symbols that exist between one another and thoughts on these exist. 1:00:27 - How our fears may affect what mythological stories stick and persist. 1:02:32 - Alan Turing and extra-sensory perception, and thoughts on ESP being real. 1:06:10 - The strange loop of questioning our own sanity and how questioning our sanity creates this tighter and tighter vortex of uncertainty. Also, this relating to questioning living in a simulation. Thoughts on solipsism, as well. 1:09:09 - The necessity of strange loops and if a system is self-referential, it has strange loops. The Epimenides paradox and self-referential paradoxes. Also, discussion on our symbol pattern recognizing system. 1:15:15 - Stoicism’s perspective on thinking about death versus Zen Buddhism’s perspective on thinking about death. 1:16:30 - Wrap-up and some closing thoughts on the book. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com</a>

12: Intelligence, Art, Music, and Life are a Strange Loop: Godel, Escher, Bach by Douglas Hofstadter

Robert Cialdini

“It is odd that despite their current widespread use and looming future importance, most of us know very little about our automatic behavior patterns. Perhaps that is so precisely because of the mechanistic, unthinking manner in which they occur. Whatever the reason, it is vital that we clearly recognize one of their properties: They make us terribly vulnerable to anyone who does know how they work.” In this episode of Made You Think, Neil and I cover Influence by Robert Cialdini. It’s a classic on the art of persuasion and explains the psychology of why people say "yes”. You’ll learn how to become a better persuader, how to market yourself and your ideas, and how to defend against the influences of others. We cover a wide range of topics, including:  The six main influencers and how they work. The psychology behind being influenced and noticing it in your own life. Using the six main influencer techniques to your own advantage. Popular examples of these influencers being used. How to avoid becoming negatively influenced by these techniques.  And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab  a copy of Influence! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out  our episode on The Psychology of Human Misjudgments by Charlie Munger, to learn about the 25 cognitive biases that negatively affect our thinking and how to effectively watch out for them, as well as  our episode on Principles by Ray Dalio, to learn the key principles necessary for getting what you want out of life. Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we're running, special events, and more. Mentioned in the show:  Nike [3:47] Adidas [3:48]  Made You Think episode on The Psychology of Human Misjudgments [4:55] Four Sigmatic’s Mushroom Coffee (20% off) [5:10]  Perfect Keto’s MCT Oil Powder [5:20] Made You Think support page [5:30] Kettle and Fire’s Bone Broth (20% off) [5:42] Lyft [13:05]  Sam Harris and Scott Adams debate [21:51] Sam Harris’ Waking Up Podcast [21:58] Growth Machine [23:47] Transcendental Meditation [33:01] Boiler Room movie [33:44] The Godfather [33:50] The Wolf of Wall Street [34:38] Nat’s Keto article [34:55] Hitch movie [37:05] Mom Trusted [47:06] Bond: Handwritten Notes [48:10] Product Hunt [48:18] Buffer [48:30] AirBnB [49:03] Shopify [54:15] Fomo [54:16] NFL.com [55:35] Spotify app mentioned [57:36]  Freakonomics episode on suicide reporting [1:07:25] Uber [1:15:18] JP Morgan [1:34:32]  House of Cards [1:38:17] Bookinabox [1:47:00]  Books mentioned:   Influence  Trust Me, I’m Lying [6:45]  The 48 Laws of Power [6:45] (Nat’s Notes)  How to Lie With Statistics [7:20] (Nat’s Notes)  The Heart and Fist [46:15]  The Denial of Death [1:18:30] (Nat’s Notes) (episode on the book)  Amusing Ourselves to Death [1:27:08] (Nat’s Notes) (episode on the book)  Winston Churchill’s WW2 Books [1:31:25]  Finite and Infinite Games [1:42:07] (Nat’s Notes) (episode on the book)  Antifragile [1:44:58] (Nat’s Notes) (episode on the book)  Principles [1:51:44] (Nat’s Notes) (episode on the book)  Letters from a Stoic [1:51:55] (Nat’s Notes) (episode on the book)  People mentioned:  Robert Cialdini Nassim Nicholas Taleb [3:30] (episode on Antifragile) LeBron James [3:51] Charlie Munger [4:55] (related podcast episode) Ryan Holiday [6:45]  Robert Greene [6:54] (episode on Mastery) Benjamin Franklin [11:04] Scott Adams [17:06] Sam Harris [21:06] Sonny Corleone [33:52] Vin Diesel [33:58] Will Smith [37:10] Ray Dalio [47:02] (episode on Principles) Seneca [53:20] (episode on Letters from a Stoic) Epictetus [53:22] Adil Majid [53:48] Justin Mares [54:14] Bill Nye [1:26:05] Stanley Milgram [1:29:14] Dr. Jordan Peterson [1:30:42] Neville Chamberlain [1:31:30] Jamie Dimon [1:34:30] Floyd Mayweather [1:36:03] Kevin Spacey [1:38:15] Robin Wright [1:38:47] Barbra Streisand [1:44:03] Beyonce [1:44:10] Tom Peters [1:50:10]  Roger Fisher [1:50:12] David Meyers [1:50:19]  0:00 - Introductory quote and some information on the book. 4:04 - A bit on how the book is structured, as well as explaining what the six main influencers are. 6:16 - How you can use this book and some other books that mention this book. 8:07 - The first chapter of the six main influencers, reciprocation, and some discussion on this. Also, some examples of this. “When we get something, we feel obligated to give something back.” 17:04 - Some discussion on an excerpt about negotiation from the reciprocation chapter. 21:01 - Wrapping up the reciprocation chapter with how to challenge reciprocity. “If you want to fight reciprocity, define it as a sales device, not a gift.” 25:52 - The chapter on commitment and consistency. Detailing the chapter and what commitment and consistency are. 33:00 - A few examples related to this chapter and some discussion on them. 37:34 - The second example related to the chapter and detailing the psychology that the method used. Also, a bit on getting people used to saying yes to get them to continue agreeing. 41:17 - The physical and effort aspect of commitment and consistency. Also, a bit on cold emailing and cold-calling (and a few tangents). “The more effort that goes into a commitment, the greater the ability that you’ll have to influence the attitude.” 53:00 - The chapter on social proof. A bit on canned laughter, examples of social proof, some discussion on the bystander effect, and tying social proof into evolutionary instincts. (Tangents at 55:08) “Once people see somebody helping, then they all rush to help. But when nobody is helping, nobody does anything.” 1:03:10 - When people are like us, we tend to like them more. An example on this and some following discussion. Also, some thoughts on how suicide reports in the news correlate with increased suicide rates. 1:09:56 - The chapter on liking. A few examples, discussing these examples, and detailing why they work. “When we like people or like something, we attribute more good things to it.” 1:19:55 - Discussing the aspects of getting hooked on a fad and thinking that everything associated with that fad is good. Also, defining natural, organic, free-range, and other terminologies and explaining why they aren’t always clear or fully truthful. 1:25:37 - The chapter on authority. Some examples of authority and discussing how it works. Also, a bit on social proof, fear of going against the grain, cryptocurrency, and stocks. An interesting fact from Cialdini on common medical errors, as well. Always ask: “Is this authority truly an expert?” 1:38:08 - Discussing celebrity endorsements with political candidates and some following tangents. 1:42:35 - The last chapter on scarcity. Various examples, usage with marketing, and a few tangents. “The more scarce something appears, the more we want it.” 1:47:05 - Recognizing scarcity and some discussion on scarcity in general. “Most things are not made better by being scarce.” 1:48:30 - Closing thoughts and discussing the last section of the book on shunning those who use these techniques excessively and in a negative manner. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com

“It is odd that despite their current widespread use and looming future importance, most of us know very little about our automatic behavior patterns. Perhaps that is so precisely because of the mechanistic, unthinking manner in which they occur. Whatever the reason, it is vital that we clearly recognize one of their properties: They make us terribly vulnerable to anyone who does know how they work.” In this episode of Made You Think, Neil and I cover Influence by Robert Cialdini. It’s a classic on the art of persuasion and explains the psychology of why people say "yes”. You’ll learn how to become a better persuader, how to market yourself and your ideas, and how to defend against the influences of others. We cover a wide range of topics, including: <ul> <li>The six main influencers and how they work.</li> <li>The psychology behind being influenced and noticing it in your own life.</li> <li>Using the six main influencer techniques to your own advantage.</li> <li>Popular examples of these influencers being used.</li> <li>How to avoid becoming negatively influenced by these techniques.</li> </ul> And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Influence-Practice-Robert-B-Cialdini/dp/0205609996/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> a copy of Influence</a>! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/psychology-of-human-misjudgments/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> our episode on The Psychology of Human Misjudgments by Charlie Munger</a>, to learn about the 25 cognitive biases that negatively affect our thinking and how to effectively watch out for them, as well as <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/principles-ray-dalio/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> our episode on Principles by Ray Dalio</a>, to learn the key principles necessary for getting what you want out of life. Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we're running, special events, and more. Mentioned in the show: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.nike.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nike</a> [3:47]</li> <li><a href="https://www.adidas.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Adidas</a> [3:48]</li> <li><a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/psychology-of-human-misjudgments/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Made You Think episode on The Psychology of Human Misjudgments</a> [4:55]</li> <li><a href="http://foursigmatic.com/think" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Four Sigmatic’s Mushroom Coffee</a> (20% off) [5:10]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Keto-MCT-Powder-Triglycerides/dp/B06VVJLSZR/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Perfect Keto’s MCT Oil Powder</a> [5:20]</li> <li><a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/support/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Made You Think support page</a> [5:30]</li> <li><a href="http://kettleandfire.com/think" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kettle and Fire’s Bone Broth</a> (20% off) [5:42]</li> <li><a href="https://www.lyft.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lyft</a> [13:05]</li> <li><a href="https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/07/21/sam_harris_vs_scott_adams_is_donald_trump_persuasive.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Sam Harris and Scott Adams debate</a> [21:51]</li> <li><a href="https://www.samharris.org/podcast" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Sam Harris’ Waking Up Podcast</a> [21:58]</li> <li><a href="https://yourgrowthmachine.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Growth Machine</a> [23:47]</li> <li><a href="https://www.tm.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Transcendental Meditation</a> [33:01]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiler_Room_(film)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Boiler Room movie</a> [33:44]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Godfather" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Godfather</a> [33:50]</li> <li><a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993846/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Wolf of Wall Street</a> [34:38]</li> <li><a href="https://www.nateliason.com/easy-keto/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Keto article</a> [34:55]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitch_(film)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Hitch movie</a> [37:05]</li> <li><a href="http://www.momtrusted.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Mom Trusted</a> [47:06]</li> <li><a href="https://bond.co/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Bond: Handwritten Notes</a> [48:10]</li> <li><a href="https://www.producthunt.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Product Hunt</a> [48:18]</li> <li><a href="https://buffer.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Buffer</a> [48:30]</li> <li><a href="https://www.airbnb.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">AirBnB</a> [49:03]</li> <li><a href="https://www.shopify.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Shopify</a> [54:15]</li> <li><a href="https://www.usefomo.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Fomo</a> [54:16]</li> <li><a href="https://www.nfl.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">NFL.com</a> [55:35]</li> <li><a href="http://forgotify.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Spotify app mentioned</a> [57:36]</li> <li><a href="http://freakonomics.com/podcast/suicide-paradox-rebroadcast/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Freakonomics episode on suicide reporting</a> [1:07:25]</li> <li><a href="https://www.uber.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Uber</a> [1:15:18]</li> <li><a href="https://www.jpmorgan.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">JP Morgan</a> [1:34:32]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Cards_(U.S._TV_series)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> House of Cards</a> [1:38:17]</li> <li><a href="https://bookinabox.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Bookinabox</a> [1:47:00]</li> </ul> Books mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Robert-Cialdini/dp/006124189X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Influence</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Trust-Me-Lying-Confessions-Manipulator/dp/1591846285/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Trust Me, I’m Lying</a> [6:45]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/48-Laws-Power-Robert-Greene/dp/0140280197/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The 48 Laws of Power</a> [6:45] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/48-laws-power-robert-greene/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Statistics-Darrell-Huff/dp/0393310728/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> How to Lie With Statistics</a> [7:20] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/lie-statistics-darrell-huff/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Heart-Fist-Education-Humanitarian-Making/dp/B0098RLDT8/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Heart and Fist</a> [46:15]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Denial-Death-Ernest-Becker/dp/0684832402/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Denial of Death</a> [1:18:30] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/denial-of-death-ernest-becker/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/denial-of-death/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">episode on the book</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Amusing Ourselves to Death</a> [1:27:08] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/amusing-death-neil-postman/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/amusing-ourselves-to-death-neil-postman/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">episode on the book</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Second-World-War-Winston-Churchill/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Winston Churchill’s WW2 Books</a> [1:31:25]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Finite-Infinite-Games-James-Carse/dp/1476731713/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Finite and Infinite Games</a> [1:42:07] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/finite-infinite-games-james-carse/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/finite-and-infinite-james-carse/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">episode on the book</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Antifragile-Things-That-Disorder-Incerto/dp/0812979680/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Antifragile</a> [1:44:58] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/antifragile/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/antifragile-nassim-taleb/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">episode on the book</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Life-Work-Ray-Dalio/dp/1501124021/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Principles</a> [1:51:44] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/principles-ray-dalio/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/principles-ray-dalio/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">episode on the book</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Letters-Penguin-Classics-Lucius-Annaeus/dp/0140442103/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Letters from a Stoic</a> [1:51:55] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/letters-stoic-seneca/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/letters-stoic-seneca/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">episode on the book</a>)</li> </ul> People mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cialdini" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Robert Cialdini</a></li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassim_Nicholas_Taleb" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nassim Nicholas Taleb</a> [3:30] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/antifragile-nassim-taleb/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">episode on Antifragile</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeBron_James" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">LeBron James</a> [3:51]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Munger" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Charlie Munger</a> [4:55] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/psychology-of-human-misjudgments/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">related podcast episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://ryanholiday.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ryan Holiday</a> [6:45]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Greene_(American_author)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Robert Greene</a> [6:54] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/mastery-robert-greene/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">episode on Mastery</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Benjamin Franklin</a> [11:04]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Adams" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Scott Adams</a> [17:06]</li> <li><a href="https://www.samharris.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Sam Harris</a> [21:06]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Corleone" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Sonny Corleone</a> [33:52]</li> <li><a href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004874/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Vin Diesel</a> [33:58]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Smith" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will Smith</a> [37:10]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Dalio" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ray Dalio</a> [47:02] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/principles-ray-dalio/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">episode on Principles</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_the_Younger" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Seneca</a> [53:20] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/letters-stoic-seneca/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">episode on Letters from a Stoic</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epictetus" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Epictetus</a> [53:22]</li> <li><a href="http://blog.adilmajid.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Adil Majid</a> [53:48]</li> <li><a href="http://justinmares.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Justin Mares</a> [54:14]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Nye" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Bill Nye</a> [1:26:05]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Milgram" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Stanley Milgram</a> [1:29:14]</li> <li><a href="https://jordanbpeterson.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Dr. Jordan Peterson</a> [1:30:42]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Chamberlain" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neville Chamberlain</a> [1:31:30]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Dimon" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Jamie Dimon</a> [1:34:30]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Mayweather_Jr." rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Floyd Mayweather</a> [1:36:03]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Spacey" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kevin Spacey</a> [1:38:15]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Wright" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Robin Wright</a> [1:38:47]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbra_Streisand" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Barbra Streisand</a> [1:44:03]</li> <li><a href="https://www.beyonce.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Beyonce</a> [1:44:10]</li> <li><a href="http://tompeters.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Tom Peters</a> [1:50:10]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Fisher_(academic)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Roger Fisher</a> [1:50:12]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Meyers_(director)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">David Meyers</a> [1:50:19]</li> </ul> 0:00 - Introductory quote and some information on the book. 4:04 - A bit on how the book is structured, as well as explaining what the six main influencers are. 6:16 - How you can use this book and some other books that mention this book. 8:07 - The first chapter of the six main influencers, reciprocation, and some discussion on this. Also, some examples of this. “When we get something, we feel obligated to give something back.” 17:04 - Some discussion on an excerpt about negotiation from the reciprocation chapter. 21:01 - Wrapping up the reciprocation chapter with how to challenge reciprocity. “If you want to fight reciprocity, define it as a sales device, not a gift.” 25:52 - The chapter on commitment and consistency. Detailing the chapter and what commitment and consistency are. 33:00 - A few examples related to this chapter and some discussion on them. 37:34 - The second example related to the chapter and detailing the psychology that the method used. Also, a bit on getting people used to saying yes to get them to continue agreeing. 41:17 - The physical and effort aspect of commitment and consistency. Also, a bit on cold emailing and cold-calling (and a few tangents). “The more effort that goes into a commitment, the greater the ability that you’ll have to influence the attitude.” 53:00 - The chapter on social proof. A bit on canned laughter, examples of social proof, some discussion on the bystander effect, and tying social proof into evolutionary instincts. (Tangents at 55:08) “Once people see somebody helping, then they all rush to help. But when nobody is helping, nobody does anything.” 1:03:10 - When people are like us, we tend to like them more. An example on this and some following discussion. Also, some thoughts on how suicide reports in the news correlate with increased suicide rates. 1:09:56 - The chapter on liking. A few examples, discussing these examples, and detailing why they work. “When we like people or like something, we attribute more good things to it.” 1:19:55 - Discussing the aspects of getting hooked on a fad and thinking that everything associated with that fad is good. Also, defining natural, organic, free-range, and other terminologies and explaining why they aren’t always clear or fully truthful. 1:25:37 - The chapter on authority. Some examples of authority and discussing how it works. Also, a bit on social proof, fear of going against the grain, cryptocurrency, and stocks. An interesting fact from Cialdini on common medical errors, as well. Always ask: “Is this authority truly an expert?” 1:38:08 - Discussing celebrity endorsements with political candidates and some following tangents. 1:42:35 - The last chapter on scarcity. Various examples, usage with marketing, and a few tangents. “The more scarce something appears, the more we want it.” 1:47:05 - Recognizing scarcity and some discussion on scarcity in general. “Most things are not made better by being scarce.” 1:48:30 - Closing thoughts and discussing the last section of the book on shunning those who use these techniques excessively and in a negative manner. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com</a>

20: Six Ways to Make People Do What You Want: Influence by Robert Cialdini

“Discovery requires serendipity but serendipity is not a chance event alone. It is a process in which a chance of event is seized upon by a creative person who chooses to pay attention to the event, unravel its mystery and find a proper application for it.” In this episode of Made You Think, Neil and Nat discuss  Happy Accidents by Morton A Meyers. In this book we look at the serendipity of so many scientific discoveries and the author suggests how we can foster these chance happenings to make giant leaps in research and discovery. “Penetrating intelligence, keen perception, and sound judgment — is essential to serendipity. The men and women who seized on lucky accidents that happened to them were anything but mindless. In fact, their minds typically had special qualities that enabled them to break out of established paradigms.” We cover a wide range of topics, including:  Penicillin, Petri Dishes and Moldy Mary The impact of freedom on research Tangents on Private Schools, Social Media &amp; Conspiracy Theories Modern Diets, Drugs and Toxins turned into cures Self experimentation, Ostracism and changing Medical opinions A possible special kayaking retreat for supporters  And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of  Happy Accidents by Morton A Meyers! You can also listen on Google Play Music,  SoundCloud, YouTube, or in any other podcasting app by searching “Made You Think.” If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our episodes on Skin in the Game by Nassim Taleb where he shares other stories of scientists trying treatments firsthand, and  Merchants of Doubt by Naomi Oreskes and Erik Cornway for more on controversial science, academia and Pharma companies. Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we're running, special events, and more. Links from the Episode Mentioned in the show  Bottom Up Methodology [01:31] Scientific Method [1:48] Penicillin [05:27]  LSD Discovery [05:48] Contact High [06:01] Dogmatic [06:19] Petri dishes [08:01] Lifehacker [08:47]  The Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas S. Kuhn [9:31]  Narrative Fallacy [16:17]  Fleming Nobel Prize Speech [17:38] Peoria, Illinois [26:03] Corn Steep Liquor [26:09] Merck [26:48] Squibb [26:48] Pfizer [26:48] World War I [27:42] Aquatic Apes [29:04] Sippy Diet [30:27] Tetracycline Antibiotic [31:47] Acid Inhibitors [34:14] Statins [34:36] Carbohydrates [36:16] LDL [36:20] LDL receptors [36:33] Viagra [38:26] Asbestos [39:46] Facebook Groups [42:14] Discord Groups [42:15] Carnivore Diet [42:49] Shake Shack [44:04] M&amp;M’s [44:07] Purina Dog Food [46:08] Stats of College Debt – Tweet [46:32] CMU [52:40] Choate School [53:45] Sidwell Friends [54:23] Boarding Schools [54:34] Alkylating Agents [57:15] Geneva Convention [58:08] Patreon [01:02:08] Google Trends on episode 35 [1:02:00] Epidemics [01:02:27] SARS [01:02:54] Influenza [01:02:56] Syphilis [01:03:22]  Fish Aquarium Antibiotics [01:04:53] FDA [01:07:51] Nazi Testing [01:08:04] Japanese testing on Chinese prisoners [01:08:08] Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male [01:08:19] Eugenics [01:10:18] Darwinism [01:10:31] (related podcast) Russian Gulag [01:11:38] Thalidomide [01:11:52] Diethyl Glycol [01:12:59]  Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act [01:13:10] Accutane [01:15:06] Doxycycline [01:16:26] Microbiome [01:16:52] Eczema [01:17:43] Steroids [01:17:36] Spartan Race [01:20:09] Nat’s Instagram [01:20:15] Blockchain [01:21:06] X-Rays [01:22:29] Morphine [01:23:51] American Urological Association [01:24:48] CVS patient statistics for Viagra [01:29:42] Netflix [01:31:18] Spleen [01:32:47] Confirmation bias [01:34:43] Ego death [01:39:38] Dissociative experience [01:39:40] Magic mushrooms [01:40:02] LSD Therapeutic Research Study [01:41:03] NASA [01:46:22]  Direct to Consumer Drug Advertising [01:46:29]  ADD [01:47:41]  Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder [01:47:58] Prozac / Seraphim [01:48:09] Paxil [01:48:18] Female Sexual Dysfunction [01:48:24] Lipitor [01:48:57] Zoloft [01:49:16] UBI [01:53:07] Ethereum [01:59:48]  Books mentioned   Happy Accidents by Morton A Meyers  Beginning of Infinity by David Deutsch [00:42] (book episode)  The War on Normal People by Andrew Yang [00:51] (book episode)  Antifragile by Nassim Taleb [07:02] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  The Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas S. Kuhn [9:31]  Boron Letters by Gary C. Halbert [14:44]  Skin in the Game by Nassim Taleb [30:00] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  Merchants of Doubt by Naomi Oreskes and Erik M. Conway [01:02:02]] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  Merchants of Doubt by Naomi Oreskes and Erik M. Conway [01:02:02] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  Homo Deus by Yuval Harari [01:02:36] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  Words that Work by Frank Luntz [01:28:24]  LSD My Problem Child by Albert Hofmann [01:40:51]  Brave New World by Aldous Huxley [01:48:46]  People mentioned  Morton A Meyers David Deutsch [00:42] (Beginning of Infinity episode) Andrew Yang [00:51] (The War on Normal People episode) Winston Churchill [05:04] Alexander Fleming [05:29] Nassim Taleb [07:02] (Antifragile episode) (Skin in the Game episode) Thomas Kuhn [09:21] Peter Thiel [10:12] Gary C. Halbert [14:44] Charles Darwin [18:39] (Daniel Dennett’s book) Ernst B Chain [22:31]  Moldy Mary [25:56] Barry Marshall [31:07] Robert Koch [32:10] Bill Clinton [01:00:32] George W Bush [01:01:18] Erik M. Conway [01:02:02] Yuval Harari [01:02:45] (Homo Deus episode) (Sapiens  part I and  part II) FDR [01:13:08] Claude Bernard [01:22:24] Frank Luntz [01:28:24] John William Gofman [1:31:35] President Eisenhower [01:34:48] Timothy Leary [01:40:28] Albert Hofmann [01:40:51] Steve Jobs [01:41:00] Louis Pasteur [01:45:32] Aldous Huxley [01:48:46]  Show Topics 00:26 – The book is fun to read, light, enjoyable, easy going. An exploration of scientific discovery and progress and how consistently it is influenced and driven by the role of Serendipity. A case opposite or complementary to the Scientific Method. Serendipity defined as a combination of accidents and sagacity. 05:05 – Not all discoveries are immediately realized or understood. Winston Churchill – “Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened”. Penicillin and LSD examples. The dangers of being dogmatic without leaving room for the unexpected. 06:53 – Central theme of the book–How do you foster that serendipitous mindset? Nassim Taleb says that serendipity comes from chance encounters, like a cocktail party. The potential gain from a chance encounter is worth the effort of stepping outside your comfort zone. 07:42 – Trying to harness serendipity for your own benefit. Serendipity through disorder and randomness. Investigating how scientists can foster serendipity in their lab work and how academia and education and research grants, peer review could change because of that. 09:41 – Normal vs revolutionary science, Meyers is dismissive of puzzle solving. Normal science is making incremental improvements on existing knowledge, whereas serendipity fosters revolutionary discoveries as they come from a change in the ordinary methods. 10:51 – Two stages to serendipity. You need something unusual to happen and you have to recognize it to take advantage of it too. 11:21 – Innovation departments rarely come up with paradigm-shifting ideas and products. Need a certain mindset to make the most of these opportunities. Reason, intuition and imagination. Too much experience in a field can cloud your judgement on new ideas. 13:51 – The book is primarily about serendipity in medicine and science but it can be applied to most fields. Breaking out of the norm and finding inspiration for innovation in other industries. Looking at magazines to apply to blog copywriting. 15:33 – "Analogical thinking has certainly been a cornerstone of science." Another theme in the book is looking for one thing but ending up on a totally different path. All of the people making discoveries seemed to have a level of independence in their research to follow a new path when it interests them. The narrative fallacy involved in serendipitous scientific discovery or startups growth. 17:40 – Alexander Fleming and discovery of Penicillin as anti-bacterial.  Fleming said that if he was working on a research team at the time it would have been ignored as it wasn’t what he was working on. Being free allows you to pursue these anomalies. 19:04 – Darwin and the finches in the Galapagos. Being told to go and study something brings different results than if you’re free to follow your own curiosity. The constraints of research impose harmful limits on discoveries. 19:54 – Structure of the book is Introduction of the premise, 30+ chapters of examples and the conclusion. Myers suggests at the end of the book that the structure for scientific research and funding is counter to the ability for these serendipitous events to happen. 20:50 – More on Fleming and Penicillin. Odds of it happening were astronomically low. He was away for two weeks and on returning and viewing his petri dishes on his desk discovered an anti-bacterial zone around the mold. It wasn’t until 7 years later that another researcher realized what he had found. 23:09 – For Fleming it took a number of environmental factors that allowed Penicillin to be discovered at all: heat, location, time. Penicillin wasn’t originally pitched as a drug, originally suggested as a way to isolate bacterial colonies. Then there was the huge scale up and production process of the drug. Peoria (IL), the role of corn syrup, and the mold discovered by chance. 29:00 – Bonus Material Discussion, Aquatic Apes, Patreon, future episode ideas. 29:52 – Causes of ulcers, used to be thought of as stress and spicy food. Discovery that it is caused by bacteria in 1981. Marshall ran an experiment on himself to take the bacteria, give himself ulcers and cure himself with antibiotics. Pharmaceutical industry had a strong incentive to not prove this as the cause, current drugs of acid inhibitors were reaching sales of $6 Billion dollars in 1992. 35:04 – Pharma companies lobbying to decrease acceptable cholesterol ranges to induce more people into treatments. Changing opinions of statins within last 10 years. Effects of low cholesterol on longevity, links to all-cause mortality. Reducing cholesterol and precursors to creating testosterone in diet has lead to a reduction in testosterone and erectile dysfunction requiring a need for Viagra. 39:59 – What are we currently doing in society now that we will look back on and question in the future? Possible future problems associated with over consumption of social media. Mental and physical health complaints are unknown. 41:53 – Pull away in society from open sharing, moving towards private communities. Effectiveness of diets, feeling good vs having long term health benefits. Benefits of adopting a new diet may be equal to reducing other harmful choices – like stopping drinking for a month. The changing conventions of meal-times, quality of dog food, college debt. 47:12 – Tangent. Education and the need to change the K through 12 program instead of starting with College reform. The benefits of private vs public school. Mixing with different socioeconomic backgrounds, expense of private school. Both build very different sets of social and academic skills. Bay Area dystopia, where citizens pay lots in taxes that go into public schools, but parents end choosing private ones. 55:53 – Chemical weapons, World Wars and the changing use of toxins into cures. Bombing a ship leading to the first chemo treatments for cancer. North Korea and the development of nuclear tech (more info in the Bonus material). Google health trends being able to predict health outbreaks based on search volume. Sex hormones and noticing the change of tumors in animals after castration. 01:07:55 – Consequences of controversial testing on wartime prisoners that have given us useful data. Study of African-American men with syphilis, they were told they were having free medical treatment but they were mislead and were being studied for the untreated effects of syphilis over 40 years. Possibilities of current testing on prisoners or other conspiracies. 01:11:52 – History of Thalidomide being marketed as a sedative and pain management. Widely distributed before it was realized it had the side effect of severely inhibiting fetal development. U.S avoided this because the FDA already setup due to a drug being administered alongside Diethyl Glycol which was toxic, killing over 100 children. Testing required before products could be marketed. Thalidomide now used as an anti-cancer drug as it inhibits new blood vessel growth. 01:15:05 – Acne treatments and the imbalanced side-effects on fertility. Use of cleanser on the face strips natural oils. Use of antibiotics for acne which causes destruction of the microbiome. Latex gloves that may transmit more bacteria than your hands. Effects of steroids and keto on curing eczema. Nat not using shampoo even after a Spartan race. Body naturally cleansing. 01:21:06 – Tangents, aquatic apes, blockchain, negative reviews. 01:21:59 – Heart chapter and testing of catheterization. Self-experimentation and the need to prove theories. Ostracism and dangerous procedures. 01:24:44 – Viagra, originally for treating angina, it was found that this medication increased blood flow and became a cure for impotence – renamed to erectile dysfunction. Self-experimentation on erectile dysfunction. "The annual scientific meeting of the American Urologic Association is usually a pretty staid Affair but one meeting has entered the annals of folklore in the early 1980s. During the course of his lecture on the effectiveness of injecting substances directly into the penis to increase blood flow one urologist announced that he had performed such injections on himself only an hour earlier. Stepping from behind the lectern and he dropped his trousers and proudly demonstrated to the audience his own erect manhood. Urologists who attended this meeting still shake their heads at the memory." 01:28:00 – The power of names and the words used, like pro-life and pro-choice. How you phrase something changes the impact. Pharmaceuticals changing the names of conditions to promote sales of new drugs. Sales of Viagra were $780 Million in the first 9 months of 1998. 01:30:02 – 1% of women take Viagra to increase arousal and sensation and orgasm strength. Netflix’s biggest competitor is sleep, Viagra’s biggest competitor is death. 01:31:48 – Cholesterol testing on rabbits. Cholesterol data seems outdated with the book being 11 years old. Comparison of Chinese soldiers and lifestyle and diet. Lack of nutrition education in Doctors, mostly educated by pharmaceutical companies. People seem to want to take a pill rather than change their lifestyle or diet and doctors have lack of trust in the patient that they will try to improve their own situation. 01:38:07 – Psychiatric stuff. Hoffman discovering LSD by accidentally pouring it over his skin. LSD microdosing experiences. 01:42:40 – Tangents on kayaking, LSD microdosing and the Made You Think – Patreon $1000 Tier. 01:43:06 – Conclusion. Modern sciences are antithetical to the process of serendipity and how our institutions penalize our ability to take advantage of it. Government contracts and grants impose constraints. If you're getting money to research a specific topic you will be disincentivized from exploring things that deviates. If you're a free agent, then you can run down those rabbit holes. 01:44:31 – Peer reviews. Most businesses are judged by their customers but academia is judged solely by their peers. Ostracism as a consequence of investigating fringe theories. Direct to consumer advertising for drugs. Diseases and disorders that seems to be created and renamed just to increase drug sales. Long terms effects of drugs. 01:52:19 – On Patreon you get all kinds of goodies. Bonus materials, detailed notes for each episode and book highlights. You get a space to discuss the show with both of us. You can also join for our monthly live Hangouts. If you join the $1000 a month tier you can join us for a major excursion – Made You Trip! 01:54:57 – Patreon is a great way to support the show and let us keep doing this ad free. So we don't have to break up the episode with ads and we keep rolling with the tangents. 01:55:48 – Leave a review on  iTunes that is super helpful for us because we show up as a recommended podcast and also is a great way for us to book guests. Other ways to support the show, you can go MadeYouThinkPodcast.com/support and tell your friends. 01:57:58 – If you want to talk to us, you can talk to us on Twitter anytime. I'm @TheRealNeilS and I am @NatEliason. If you're shopping on  Amazon click through on our link. We super appreciate that.  All right, we will see everyone next week. See you guys next time. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com

49: The Power of Serendipity. Happy Accidents by Morton A Meyers

David Foster Wallace

“This wise old whiskery fish swims up to three young fish and goes, 'Morning, boys, how's the water?' and swims away; and the three young fish watch him swim away and look at each other and go, 'What the fuck is water?' and swim away.” In this episode of Made You Think, Neil and Nat discuss  Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace. This is a huge novel taking time in a fictitious 2010 characterized by a non-conventional timeline and a lack of a plot. Despite it’s challenging structure and the fact of being a fiction, it has a lot of philosophical nuggets about particularly on the activeness vs passiveness way of living. We cover a wide range of topics, including:  Hitting goals and sense of satisfaction Letting life happen to you while watching TV Accurate visions of the world in 2020 Best porno-like book titles How Nat &amp; Neil broke and got back together 1-on-1 sports and their secondary effect on us  And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of  Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our episode on  Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman, another book that critics how media and TV are ruining our lives, and  The Inner Game of Tennis by Timothy Gallwey, another book that shows how tennis is not just about hitting balls with a racket. Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we're running, special events, and more. Links from the Episode Mentioned in the show   Kindle (link Amazon) [8:06]  iPad [9:10] Netflix [17:50] The Office [18:36] BoJack Horseman [19:50] Cup &amp; Leaf [40:44] A Crash Course in Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Cryptocurrency (crypto episode) [42:57] AA - Alcoholics Anonymous [50:30] Ad Blocker [1:05:56] The Trouble With Facebook by Sam Harris [1:06:25] Snapchat [1:07:26] Skype [1:09:10] Mushroom Coffee [1:14:50] University of Arizona [1:18:39] The College Dropout by Kanye West [1:32:20] (album episode) The Matrix [1:33:07] Primer [1:33:14]  Books mentioned   Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace  Gödel, Escher, Bach by Douglas R. Hofstadter [2:25] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  Ulysses by James Joyce [7:16]  Finnegans Wake by James Joyce [7:17]  The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus [37:59] (book episode)  Cleveland is King by Brendan Bowers [38:20]  The Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz [45:12]  Skin in the Game by Nassim Taleb [46:37] (book episode)  Discipline and Punish by Michel Foucault  [46:47] (book episode)  12 Rules for Life by Dr. Jordan Peterson [46:55] (book episode)  Strange Loops [47:07] (book episode)  Mastery by Robert Greene [47:10] (book episode)  Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman [47:16] (book episode)  The Inner Game of Tennis by Timothy Gallwey [52:05] (book episode)  Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell [58:55]  Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand [1:15:19] (book episode)  Elegant Complexity by Greg Carlisle [1:15:50]  Hamlet by William Shakespeare [1:22:44]  People mentioned  David Foster Wallace Quentin Tarantino [18:10] Michael Schur [18:58] B.J. Novak [19:36] Kyrie Irving [38:15] LeBron James [38:50] Taylor Pearson [42:57] Trump [1:04:20]  Sam Harris [1:06:25] Mattan Griffel [1:19:26] David Perell [1:28:23] James Joyce [1:30:00] Martin Scorsese [1:32:00] Kanye West [1:32:20] (College Dropout episode) Joe Rogan [1:35:41]  Show Topics 0:00 – Spoiler Alert: it’s a fiction book, there will be spoilers. However, this is not a normal book. There is not much of a plot, so to say. This is probably a book intended to be re-read. It’s self referential, once you reach the end it intends you to go back to the beginning. 2:50 – The book doesn’t follow the timeline of events. If you are confused, congrats! That’s the point of the book :). The “missing” year is where most of the action takes. 3:35 – “Fiction is about what it’s like to be a f**cking human being”, David Foster Wallace. The central plot of our lives is just a narrative fallacy. The book gives a sense that it’s like life, in a weird way. Life is extremely complex, but we try to give it a narrative with sequential events. The characters don’t suffer a major transformation. The book ends right before all the crazy stuff is going to happen, but nothing happens yet. 6:26 – DFW intended the book to be an active work of fiction as opposed to just something you  seat back and read. There are more than 350 endnotes with essential information to the plot, so you can’t skip them. It’s highly suggested to read it on a Kindle because of them. 9:45 – There are no dates to anchor yourself on. The 10 years where the story takes place, they stop using numbers for the years, but a company’s name that sponsors or subsides that year (“subsidized time”). 11:23 – One of the central characters (that is barely referenced btw) created a movie that is so entertaining that people would watch it till they die. This movie is called “Infinite Jest”. Again, the book is chaotic and focus on the characters details rather than a story. Some parts start getting boring (eg. a kids tennis play) but you don’t want to skip them because something important is said in a couple of sentences. Random passages are really beautiful essays. 13:29 – It’s such a weird book to even talk about. It seems we are talking about a dream that we had. Supernatural characters (a ghost, a guy that levitates) may confuse you and make you doubt about your comprehension. 15:12 – Each chapter is made up of many subchapters, that can have from one sentence to 30 pages. Usually, the point of view is changed for any new subchapter, like into a different character who might be in a different place or even year or day. Sometimes you don’t know what day or character you’re getting drop in to until you’re a couple of pages into it, so it’s moving around a lot. 17:05 – What would the book like if it was written knowing Google exists? What would a movie about Infinite Jest be like? Tarantino could direct this movie. Michael Schur, co-producer and actor of The Office TV series owns the movie rights to Infinite Jest. There are many reference to the book and the author in The Office. Other TV show, BoJack Horseman, seems to be loosely based on this book. Addiction component in the book, and addiction issues that the author had. Psychological addiction to marijuana. 21:52 – Broader context of the main characters. There are basically three or four groups that have their own separate stories and those main groups intersect throughout the novel. There is the tennis academy. A particular family with 3 brothers, Hal, Orin and Mario. The addiction home next to the tennis academy. And the groups of terrorists together with those who are fighting them. The book is hilarious at many times, including laughing out loud funny and horrible tragic things at the same time. There are some absurd parts of the book, that are also very funny because of the way they are written. 26:04 – Weird plots. The wheelchair terrorists that want to kill Americans with a movie. The undercovered anti-terrorist agent that dresses like a woman. The male character enamored with “her”. Kid with his forehead stuck in a glass. The way Jim commits suicide sticking his head in a microwave. Hal tricking the psycho therapists having a major breakthrough. The list of people dying watching the film at one guy’s house. Death by passivity. Examples of characters that stuck between an easy passive life and the will of doing something bigger. 36:12 – Beautiful nonfiction parts. Discussion of kids hitting their goals: “one is that you attain the goal and realize the shocking realization that attaining the goal does not complete or redeem you, does not make everything for your life “OK ” as you are, in the culture, educated to assume it will do this, the goal. And then you face this fact that what you had thought would have the meaning does not have the meaning when you get it, and you are impaled by shock.” “It is more invigorating to want than to have”. Kyrie Irving, the basketball player, pissed off after winning everything with the Cavaliers. Finding new hills to climb instead of contenting of reaching the top. Happiness comes from the climb, not much from the achievement. Boredom aversion. Losing the impetus to perform after hitting your goals. Veterans missing the war. “If you’re worried you can feel safe, and if you feel safe you should be worried”. Books with porno titles. 47:34 – Infinite Jest is the fictional version of Amusing Ourselves to Death. Heavy critic on TV. Avoiding letting life happen to you, instead of an active life. Effects of the addiction phase, and breaking through it. Cleanse from addiction hero journey. Self improvement and infinite games found in 1-on-1 sports like tennis, box, or martial arts. Yes, you’re fighting against another player, but mainly the fight is against your brain. 53:53 – Transcending own limits. The opponent is yourself. Most characters are fighting an internal battle throughout the novel. Relationship between DFW and his editor. All typos were intentional. First and third person narrators through the book, and the relation to typos. 1:00:53 – The author sees irony almost like a safety valve that people use to avoid feeling real things. Mario, one of the characters, says (or thinks) “there is some rule that real stuff can only get mentioned if everybody rolls their eyes or laughs in a way that isn't happy.” Laughing to avoid deep conversations. In the book, the author takes serious things and wraps them in absurd and funny incidents to make them tolerable or digestible. 1:05:06 – Predictions of the internet. Advertising invading every surface and communication. Snapchat filters. The rise and fall of video calls: “the amazing things about phones is that you can be paying half attention while assuming the other person is giving you their full attention”. The problem of video calls. 1:12:48 – We broke. No, we haven’t, but we missed the opportunity. 1:15:01 – The support of the reading companion. Getting through the first pages of the book. To read or not to read Infinite Jest. Is it worth it? Signaling. Perceptions about the book, what they liked and what not. Nat: “it’s one of the most incredible books I’ve read that I never ever want to read again”. Neil compares this type of difficult to read books with beers. Endurance and feeling of accomplishment. 1:28:23 – The Infinite Jest Reader’s Club. Writers that want to prove how smart writers they are. Fashion designers showing off. Impressing your peers and justifying your professional existence. Kindle reading time estimation. DFW use of psychotropics. Worsts things of the book. 1:40:26 – Stay tuned if you want to listen to a more spoilered version of this book. Find us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS and @nateliason and let us know your version about what happened in the book. Leave a review and share it with your friends if you like the show. Join the email list at Made You Think Podcast, which is the best way to stay up to date on future episodes and things that are going on with the show. Check out ways to support the show at madeyouthinkpodcast.com/support.

60: What the f**k is water? Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace

Nassim Taleb

“Skin in the Game is about four topics in one: a) uncertainty and the reliability of knowledge (both practical and scientific, assuming there is a difference), or in less polite words bullshit detection, b) symmetry in human affairs, that is, fairness, justice, responsibility, and reciprocity, c) information sharing in transactions, and d) rationality in complex systems and in the real world. That these four cannot be disentangled is something that is obvious when one has…skin in the game.” In this episode of Made You Think, Neil and I discuss  Skin in the Game: Hidden Asymmetries in Daily Life by Nassim Taleb. In this book, Taleb touches in many of the topics he’s covered in his previous work, such as virtue signaling and probability, and most of all, true risk taking. "[...] what people resent—or should resent—is the person at the top who has no skin in the game [...]" We cover a wide range of topics, including:  Academia and its capability —or lack of it— of predicting real life. Having skin in the game and how it affects your behavior. How minorities impose their preferences to majorities. Judging a complex system by its elements. Sam Harris’ scalding opinion of Nassim Taleb. Virtue signaling.  And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of  Skin in the Game by Nassim Taleb. "Not everything that happens happens for a reason, but everything that survives survives for a reason." If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our episode on Antifragile by Nassim Taleb to dive deeper into Taleb’s work, and our episode on  12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson, so you too can imagine the awesome podcast Jordan and Taleb could create together. Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we're running, special events, and more. Links from the Episode Mentioned in the show  Nassim Taleb on Medium [01:45] Nat Chat [01:04] (Antifragile episode) Twitter [03:48] Uber [13:04] Venture Capital [15:30] Y Combinator [15:37] Startup Company [15:37] Hedge Fund [17:09] Cryptocurrency [18:16] Gilgamesh coin [19:00] Lindy Effect  [21:40] Virtue Signaling [24:32] Middlebury College [24:43] Statin [28:25] American Heart Association [31:30] Coca-Cola [35:20] Confirmation Bias [38:47] The Placebo Effect [38:50]  The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority by Nassim Taleb [40:29] Kosher Food [40:29] New Atheism [45:16] Reddit [45:26] Facebook [45:27] Starbucks [45:30] Dick’s Sporting Goods [46:00] Box Company [46:52] Google [56:42] Mutual Assured Destruction [01:02:04] JPMorgan Chase [01:09:00] Apple Inc. [01:09:30] Amazon [01:09:30] Uber [01:09:33] Instacart [01:09:33] Fat Tony [01:09:52]  The National Football League (NFL) [01:18:36] Tesla [01:12:54] In-n-Out Burger [1:23:33] Chipotle [1:23:33] D'Souza rips apart smug leftist student over "white privilege" [1:27:30] Humanitarians of Tinder [01:33:17] Toms Shoes [01:33:45] Malaria nets [1:34:33]  Sam Harris on Nassim Taleb “insufferable” quotation [1:43:10] The best podcast ever by Sam Harris [1:49:10] Russell Brand Podcast’s Under the Skin [1:49:10]  Books mentioned   12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos by Dr. Jordan B. Peterson [00:39] (Nat’s notes) (Neil’s notes) (book episode)  Antifragile: Things That Gain from Disorder by Nassim Taleb [01:04] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  Fooled by Randomness: The Hidden Role of Chance in Life and in the Markets by Nassim Taleb [02:00]  The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable by Nassim Taleb [02:00]  The Bed of Procrustes: Philosophical and Practical Aphorisms by Nassim Taleb [02:00]  Happy Accidents: Serendipity in Modern Medical Breakthroughs by Morton A. Meyers [14:05]  Charlie Munger: The Complete Investor by Tren Griffin [26:30]  Merchants of Doubt: by Naomi Oreskes and Erik M. Conway [34:54] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid by Douglas R. Hofstadter [39:34] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  Leverage Points: Places to Intervene in a System by Donella Meadows [52:13] (book episode)  Hiroshima Diary: The Journal of a Japanese Physician by Michihiko Hachiya [01:01:28] (Nat’s notes) (book episode)  Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World by Jack Weatherford [01:37:03]  A History of Private Life by Paul Veyne [01:40:39]  Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion by Sam Harris [01:47:35]  Lying by Sam Harris [01:47:35]  People mentioned:  Nassim Nicholas Taleb (Antifragile episode) Hillary Clinton [06:58] Steven Pinker [06:58] [1:35:59] Ayn Rand [07:54] Anne Hearst [24:52]  Charles Murray [24:57] Aaron Levie [46:51] Donald Trump [01:06:40] Marco Rubio [01:07:22] Chris Christie [01:07:31] Jeff Bezos [01:11:58] Bill Gates [01:12:05] Mark Zuckerberg [01:12:14] J.K. Rowling [01:33:00] Alexander The Great [01:36:39] Jordan B. Peterson [01:41:32] (on this podcast) Sam Harris [01:41:32] Scott Adams [01:49:26] Russell Brand [01:49:47] Jocko [01:53:40]  Show Topics 01:30 – Taleb's bibliography, his previous releases. Contrasts and relations between his previous works and Skin in the Game. A greater focus in philosophy and morals, rather than the mathematical focus of his other books. Skin in the game concept for business and non-business people. 06:38 – Taleb's use of criticism of other people, perhaps partially for publicity reasons. Criticizing people at your own weight vs needless harassment. The Ayn Rand effect. 08:50 – The books’ introduction. Academia vs real life. You can’t predict the behavior of a system by studying the behavior of individual elements within the system. Emerging qualities of complex systems. Academia back-explaining knowledge that’s created practically. Skin in the game for Roman architects and medicine scientists. 14:57 – True progress is only possible when you actually stand to lose something should you fail. Defining “rent-seeking” as opposite for “skin in the game”. Different types sorts of investments and whether they constitute rent-seeking. 19:25 – The contents of the book can become a lens through which you see the world. 20:03 – Sponsors. Get a shot of Four Sigmatic Mushroom Coffee mixed with MCT oil powder from Perfecto Keto. Follow our advice, we have skin in the coff… in the game. 20:59 – You can’t judge whether something is robust, if it can survive stressors, if you’re not at risk in case it can’t. The test of time. 23:30 – Business plans and their usefulness, or usefulness for procrastination. 24:54 – Book 2: A First Look at Agency. Advice, and knowing when to listen to it. Advice that’s helpful to the person offering it, rather than who’s being advised. Incentives and metrics under judgement. 26:50 – Judging actions by their intentions, rather than their effects. Nazism vs Communism. Diets, cholesterol, weight, and its effects on health as single elements of a complex system. 35:36 – Avoiding doctors when you have low-risks health issues. Prayer and religion developing related to health, and the high risk of medical procedures. The Placebo Effect. 39:20 – Book 3: That Great Asymmetry. Ant and ant colony metaphor. Predicting a complex system’s behavior through the behavior of singular elements. A small vocal minority affecting the behavior of large groups. The minority effect on holiday greetings and restaurant choices. 45:56 – Gun regulation, and changes in policy meant for advertising. Virtue signaling and what you do out of your beliefs, versus what’s done for public recognition. Standing up for your opinions even if, or specially if, it has social consequences. 50:57 – The free market, bottom-up or top-down models. Changing the parameters of individuals will not change the parameters of the emerging system. 52:57 – Book 4: Wolves Among Dogs. The trade off between security and freedom. Working as a dog, comfortably but restrained, versus working as a wolf, with much more freedom, but less safety. Tactics big companies use domesticating their employees. English manners as a way to domesticate lower classes. 00:59:39 – Suicide bombers and Mutual Assured Destruction. Reasoning and incentives in terrorists perspective, and how to discourage them to commit suicide. Sacrificing oneself and sacrificing the whole nation. 01:02:26 – Freedom and social media. Voluntarily adopting habits of the lower class as a signal of freedom. Nassim Taleb and Twitter. 01:05:53 – Book 5: Being Alive Means Taking Certain Risks. Politicians and relatability. Feeling like a politician is a real person, or simply a scripted facade. The case for Trump and his relatability. 01:08:36 – Resentment against people at the top who don’t have skin in the game, who are not really risking anything. Economic equality and what it truly means. Unfair barriers put up to keep people in the 1% when they might not really be earning their spot anymore. Florence example, where a handful of  families has kept the power for more than 5 centuries. 01:14:38 – Peer approval, the minority effect, and real freedom. 01:17:06 – Book 6: Being Alive Means Taking Certain Risks. Between two people who are equally qualified, the person who looks less “the part” is a wiser choice, as they have had to overcome more challenges to get to where they are. Quarterbacks vs common sense. Elitism and food: steaks, fast-food, and wine. Big mansions and living away from everything. 01:27:38 – Virtue signaling. Protesting or complaining without putting action behind your beliefs. Charity that’s mostly for show and its negative consequences. 01:35:12 – History and violent events: decreasing in frequency, but increasing rapidly in intensity. War, urban violence, and the magnitude of violence. Life that isn’t covered in history outside of big, dramatic events. 01:41:26 – Book 7: Deeper Into Agency. Religion, Beliefs, and Skin in the Game. Sam Harris, Nassim Taleb, and Jordan Peterson. Religion, science, and scientism. 01:49:22 – Sam Harris’ podcast and its infamous guests. 01:50:38 – Book 8: Risk and Rationality. The last section of the book, and concepts in it that are being explored in-depth by Taleb for the first time. “Skin in the Game” as an entry point for Taleb’s work. 01:52:26 – You don’t necessarily need to know what is the reason for something, even if you know that there is a reason. 01:54:31 – Ergodicity and non-ergodicity, or assembled probability vs individual probability. Paranoia and risk reversion. Risk taking and relative risk rather than objective risk. Bathtubs’ and bullets’ potential to scale to kill people. Terrorism, gun violence and non-multiplicative risks. 02:01:35 – Ties back to Taleb’s previous work. Static and dynamics probabilities and life expectancy. 02:05:37 – Wrapping up and sponsor time! Make sure to grab your own copy of “Skin in the Game” through our Amazon sponsored link. To help the podcast maintain the freedom of the market, check out as well our sponsors: Kettle &amp; Fire for all your delicious bone broth needs, with up to 30% OFF! We recommend Perfecto Keto’s coffee-flavored exogenous ketones. Four Sigmatic: for your mushroom coffee and all your other mushroom needs. And as always, don’t forget to check out our Support page. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com

30: Only Those Who Do Should Talk: Skin In The Game by Nassim Taleb

Elon Musk

We all have these things in our life that we accept as a first principle while having no scientific basis or reason for believing in that thing. Today we do a deep dive of the world’s raddest man: Elon Musk. We’re exploring the wildly popular Elon Musk series by “Wait but Why,” focusing on the last article titled “The Cook and the Chef: Elon Musk’s Secret Sauce” which explores just how Musk might be able to do all the things he can do. And most importantly, we discuss how any of us can use these tools to enhance our own thinking and work. How any of us can be more chef than cook. We cover a wide range of topics, including:  Emulating Musk’s way of thinking for extreme advantages Musk’s businesses and how he began them How Musk thinks compared to the way most people think Challenging your existing beliefs and redefining your perspective A strategy for designing your reality and pursuing your goals How the way that you think is much more influential than your natural-born talents Shedding dogma-based thinking and instead, thinking based off of first principles Turning fear into excitement  And much more. Please enjoy and be sure  to check out the article!   Mentioned in the show:  Hyperloop One [15:20] Boring Company [15:20] Neurolink [15:21] OpenAI [15:38] Square [16:28] Elon Musk’s cameo in Iron Man 2 [17:23]  Diagram for designing your reality and pursuing your goals [26:34]  The history of SpaceX article [29:27] Unlimited Brewing Company [30:53] Zara Clothing [32:17] Shark Tank [35:24] Crispr [41:57] Zip2 [45:08] Paypal [45:24] eBay [45:29]  Elon Musk and Peter Thiel’s early days [46:40]  Peter Thiel blood transfusions from children article [47:45] PayPal Mafia [48:28] The 49ers [49:34]  Made You Think episode on The Sovereign Individual [51:37] Bitcoin [51:50]  Made You Think episode on Cryptocurrency [52:03]  Uranium on Amazon [55:57] AC Propulsion [56:38]  Ad Astra [56:55] Nat Chat podcast [57:28] Calvin and Hobbes comic strips [1:00:30] Crony Beliefs by Kevin Simler [1:02:42] Melting Asphalt [1:02:51] Jordan Peterson’s Biblical Series podcast [1:06:02]  Made You Think episode on The Way of Zen [1:18:18]  Tyranny article [1:18:26]  Made You Think episode on Emergency [1:20:25]  Two Somali immigrants rape case in Canada [1:22:07] Good Beer Hunting podcast [1:29:37] Magic Hat [1:29:42] Estee Lauder [1:37:35] Growth Machine [1:42:53]  Made You Think episode on Finite and Infinite Games [1:44:15] Uber [1:49:11] Airbnb [1:49:12] Tim Ferriss Podcast [2:03:25] Killing the Lion: Turning Anxiety into Excitement article [2:04:55]  Made You Think episode on Amusing Ourselves to Death [2:12:58]  Made You Think episode on Letters from a Stoic [2:13:05] Grand Theft Auto [2:13:28] Bookinabox [2:15:37]  Books mentioned:   Steve Jobs’ Biography [14:52]  Tropic of Cancer [24:22]  The Goal [25:53] (Nat’s Notes) (episode coming 11-28)  The 50th Law [38:10] (Nat’s Notes)  Principles [39:13] (Nat’s Notes) (episode coming 12-5)  The Score Takes Care of Itself [49:40] (Nat’s Notes)  The Sovereign Individual [51:37] (Nat’s Notes) (MYT episode)  Surely You’re Joking [1:07:45] (Nat's Notes)  The Way of Zen [1:18:18] (Nat’s Notes) (Neil’s Notes) (MYT episode)  Emergency [1:20:25] (Nat’s Notes) (MYT episode)  The E-Myth Revisited [1:41:58] (Nat’s Notes)  Finite and Infinite Games [1:44:15] (Nat’s Notes) (MYT episode)  Pragmatic Thinking and Learning [1:47:45] (Nat’s Notes)  The Red Book [1:50:33]  The Cook and the Chef on Amazon [2:15:40]  People mentioned:  Elon Musk Jim Cramer [3:09] Tim Urban [3:38] Albert Einstein [9:03] Peter Thiel [12:10] Jeff Bezos [13:18] Steve Jobs [14:50] Walter Isaacson [14:52] Jack Dorsey [16:27] Henry Ford [18:50] Genghis Khan [18:50] Marie Curie [18:50] John Lennon [18:50] Ayn Rand [18:50] Louis C.K. [18:50]  Henry Miller [24:24] Eliyahu M. Goldratt [25:54] Ray Dalio [39:13] Galileo [44:25] Reid Hoffman [48:59] Max Levchin [49:03]  Bill Walsh [49:37] Kevin Simler [1:02:44] Dr. Jordan Peterson [1:06:02] Richard Feynman [1:07:40] Tim Ferriss [1:17:22] Justin Mares [1:17:45] Sam Harris [1:32:24]  The Dreyfus Brothers [1:47:47] Carl Jung [1:50:33] Nassim Nicholas Taleb [2:00:02] (Antifragile MYT episode) Seneca [2:02:39] (Letters from a Stoic MYT episode)  Robert Greene [2:02:42] (Mastery MYT episode)  0:00 - Perspective challenging, introductory quote and an outline of what the discussion will be about. Also, some information on giveaways, upcoming episodes, the mailing list, and the podcast notes. 3:31 - How the Wait but Why article is outlined and some talk about challenging your existing beliefs. Some examples of challenging your beliefs, as well. 9:40 - The first section on us being constrained by existing beliefs and then, some examples of how Elon Musk thinks. 11:48 - The possible benefits of being on the Asperger or autistic spectrum in regards to life and business. Also, some thoughts on Elon’s companies, his deadlines, and the huge scale of the things that he does. 15:50 - Some discussion on how Musk may allocate and divvy up his time, and the many different projects that he has going on. 18:06 - The software versus hardware idea, how a different way of thinking is more powerful than your natural-born intelligence or talents. 20:08 - How where you’re born can have very little impact on your success, and some examples of very successful people born or raised in poor situations. 26:12 - Discussion on the strategy for designing your reality and pursuing your goals from the article (diagram here). Also, some examples of various companies operating using this system and being successful. 34:21 - How Elon uses this thinking strategy, continually adjusts it, and tests everything. 36:56 - Learning to not become attached to any of the goals and be willing to let it go if something better comes in. Also, being honest with yourself and be willing to invalidate things, instead of validating them. Some examples of doing this and lying to yourself. 40:50 - The story of Musk when he was in college, and how he thought “What would most affect the future of humanity?”. Also, how he focused mostly on expanding the list of things that were possible, instead of focusing on his wants at the time. Musk’s thoughts on engineering being preferable to science, as well. 45:06 - Elon’s first companies and how he was able to fund his next companies. 47:28 - (Tangent #1) The possible health benefits of blood transfusions from younger people. Also, some discussion on various trees of people who are either all successful or not. 50:46 - The history of PayPal, some of its original goals, and some of the feats that the company has accomplished. Also, what came next for Elon after PayPal. 58:12 - The comparison between most people’s way of thinking compared to Musk’s and the importance of always asking “Why?”. 1:02:23 - Some discussion on The Great Depression mindset and how it may be negatively affecting most of us, as well as our future generations. Rooting out these negative beliefs that are passed onto us by our peers, environments, parents, and more. 1:07:37 - The problem with learning things based on dogma, rather than on first principles. Making your way of learning and thinking more antifragile. Also, some examples of these things based on dogma. 1:13:30 - Thoughts on tribalism in political parties, life, social circles, and religion. Some discussion on blind versus conscious tribalism and universal based income, as well. 1:20:59 - Testing people on how tribal they are and challenging their core beliefs. Also, some more talk on tribalism and various issues in the world like rights, cultural differences, health care, and laws. 1:29:22 - Some examples of us not using first principles in our judgment, and some thoughts on various events that completely change your perspective on something. 1:36:20 - Some core heuristics from the Cook and the Chef article for improving your thinking and life. Also, thoughts on growing a business and how you can be the Chef instead of the Cook. “The Chef creates, while the Cook, in some form or another, copies.” 1:45:39 - The necessary need to become the cook and develop intuition before you become the chef. Also, how Musk is the chef and how this all relates to his way of thinking. 1:54:39 - How the ability to become a Chef is infinitely greater now than it was a hundred years ago. How easy it is to try things risk-free currently and the large number of things that we can now try. 1:56:58 - Explaining the three types of cooks and then, the chef. Where most people lie in regards to these four types and recognizing these types, as well. 2:02:45 - Obtaining an accurate view of reality and the benefits of an extreme honesty policy within a company. 2:04:16 - Two mental tricks to overcoming public speaking anxiety and some details on these tricks. Also, how the chef doesn’t give into rational fear and turns fear into excitement, and how the chef doesn’t get tied up in their own identity. 2:10:39 - How a misplaced identity and getting caught up in your history can affect what you allow into your want pool and your view of reality. Thinking things are a lot riskier than they are and the selection bias within stories. 2:13:21 - The final part regarding us essentially playing Grand Theft Life. Us taking much more risks and going after the largest opportunities if our life was inside of a simulation, similar to Grand Theft Auto. 2:15:18 - Wrap-up, some closing thoughts on the article, some bits on the future of the podcast, where to contact us, and information on what our newsletter offers. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com The more I learn about Musk and other people who seem to have superhuman powers—whether it be Steve Jobs, Albert Einstein, Henry Ford, Genghis Khan, Marie Curie, John Lennon, Ayn Rand, or Louis C.K.—the more I’m convinced that it’s their software, not their natural-born intelligence or talents, that makes them so rare and so effective. - Tim Urban

13: How to Think Like Elon Musk

Infinite Jest is a book meant to be an actively read –it’s meant to take a certain amount of work to finish it and try to figure out what’s going on. While David Foster Wallace, the author, spends words and words in beautiful descriptions, he purposefully omitted, exchanged, and told through the characters lenses parts of the story. In this episode Nat and Neil are going through some of the theories people have created to help understand the book. We cover a wide range of topics, including:  Hal's relationship with the mold and DMZ Mario's ascendance References to Hamlet, 1984, and other books and authors If Infinite Jest will become a film A MYT classic: Aquatic Apes Theory!  And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of  Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out the previous episode on  Infinite Jest for more in-depth review of the book. Also, Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand, another of the longest books we read, that ended up filmed for a movie. Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we're running, special events, and more.  Links from the Episode Mentioned in the show       Reddit [3:20] Creative Commons [3:30] What Happens at the End of Infinite Jest? (or, the Infinite Jest ending explained) – Aaron Swartz Blog [3:40] Futurama [11:33] Pineapple Express [11:35] Aquatic Apes Theory [16:02] The Wraith – The Ambiguities Blog [20:11] Lost [23:40] John Wayne and Avril Conspiracy Theories [25:28] Medusa [33:36] Atlas Shrugged (film series) [40:30] Game of Thrones [43:00] The Office [45:10]  Books mentioned   Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace (book episode)  Hamlet by William Shakespeare [5:23]  The Metamorphosis by Franz Kafka [7:48]  1984 by George Orwell [26:50]  The Pale King by David Foster Wallace [36:50]  Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand [46:38] (book episode)  The Romance of The Three Kingdoms by Luo Guanzhong [47:07]  Les Miserables by Victor Hugo [47:10]  War and Peace by Tolstoy [47:29]  People mentioned  David Foster Wallace Aaron Swartz [2:25]  0:00 – Spoiler Alert: this a commentary to Infinite Jest book. We discuss theories about those parts of the book that were left without There will be spoilers. Refer to the previous episode for more deep book review. 3:55 – Theory #1. The ghost/wraith is pretty obviously Hal’s father, the guy who made the Entertainment. He’s spirit was kind of resurrected by the radiation coming from the garbage dumped in the are he was buried. Allusions to Hamlet. JOI created Infinite Jest to take Hal out of his shell of silence. Unreliable narrators. 6:49 – Theory #2. DMZ or Madam Psychosis. The wraith steals the drug to give it to Hal via the toothbrush. Parallel with Kafka’s Metamorphosis. Hal’s experiences with the mold. He couldn’t communicate → Eats the mold → Communicates, but emotionless and stoic → Gets DMZ → Can’t talk again, but gains emotional complexity. 9:55 – Theory #3. Effects of marijuana withdrawal. Hal’s collapse and Gately’s help in the hospital. Digging up Hal’s father’s head. Connection with Gately’s vision. Hal, Gately, Joelle and John Wayne looking for the anti-Entertainment cartridge but it’s not there anymore. The suspect falls on Orin. How he new about it? Probably because of Joelle (they were dating). 13:21 – Weird theories around Avril, Hal-Orin-Mario’s mom. Apparently Avril is modeled after DFW’s mom. Theory #4. She is an A.F.R. or O.U.S. member, the secret terrorists or intelligence organizations. Affairs with John Wayne, Charles C.T. (stepbrother?). 16:10 – Theory #5. Orin, the oldest brother, fathered Mario with Avril. Avril can be the hand model. Orin doesn’t go to his father funeral. Other stories of parents abusing their sons. Who was in the car with Avril? 18:59 – Why was ghost Jim moving stuff around in the tennis academy? 19:59 – Theory #6. Why DFW uses the word wraith instead of ghost? The wraith explains to Don that it takes enormous effort for him to appear to Don: “Wraiths by and large exist (putting his arms out slowly and making little quotation-mark finger-wiggles as he said exist) in a totally different Heisenbergian dimension of rate-change and time-passage.”  Therefore, the wraith has to stand still for extremely long periods of time to appear at all to Don. 21:07 – Theory #7. Speculations that Jim ends up possessing Hal. 22:24 – Theory #8. How did DFW write the book? Did he mapped all out and then intentionally leave out specific sections so people can come up with theories? TV shows with open twists. Apparently Infinite Jest was longer. 24:53 – Theory #9. C.T. is Mario’s father. 25:23 – Theory #10. Avril and Luria are the same person. Theory #11. Orin didn’t die by the end of the book. 1984 flashbacks in the scenes with Luria. 27:08 – Mold in the basement. Mold that feeds on mold. Criticism against mold as a real thing, and more as a metaphor of the teens age difficulties. 29:33 – Theory #12. Did Hal watch the Entertainment or part of it? Doubts about how he got a copy of the movie. 31:11 – Theory #13. Hal has internally self synthesized DMZ because of the mold. 32:26 – Orin thought Joelle and Himself were lovers. Maybe that was because he didn’t want to attend his father funeral. Speculations about covering Joelle: is she disfigured or is she really so beautiful that needs to use a veil? How Joelle got acid in her face. Molly’s story. Joelle using a veil after filming Infinite Jest. 35:30 – What was the movie about? Things the reader is not allowed to know. Other DFW books. Difficulties explaining what’s the book about. Addiction and living passively. 40:00 – Would Infinite Jest make a good movie or not? Problems with Atlas Shrugged bad movie. Formats evolving after Netflix. Most of the value in Infinite Jest comes from the descriptions, not that much happens between the characters. Getting the chaotic feeling to a movie. DFW against an Infinite Jest movie. Longest books. Sierra Leone and Quebequian terrorists. 48:55 – If you enjoyed this weird episode of Made You Think, we appreciate any review on  iTunes or if you share with your friends. If you didn’t like it, it’s OK, that’s an experiment, so go listen to a normal episode of the podcast. The previous episode about Infinite Jest is probably a much better introduction to the book than this episode. Find us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS and @nateliason and join the email list at Made You Think Podcast. The email list is the best way to stay up to date on future episodes and things that are going on with the show. Check out ways to support the show at madeyouthinkpodcast.com/support.

Infinite Jest is a book meant to be an actively read –it’s meant to take a certain amount of work to finish it and try to figure out what’s going on. While David Foster Wallace, the author, spends words and words in beautiful descriptions, he purposefully omitted, exchanged, and told through the characters lenses parts of the story. In this episode Nat and Neil are going through some of the theories people have created to help understand the book. We cover a wide range of topics, including: <ul> <li>Hal's relationship with the mold and DMZ</li> <li>Mario's ascendance</li> <li>References to Hamlet, 1984, and other books and authors</li> <li>If Infinite Jest will become a film</li> <li>A MYT classic: Aquatic Apes Theory!</li> </ul> And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Infinite-Jest-David-Foster-Wallace-ebook/dp/B004TSKKE0/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace</a>! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out the previous episode on <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/infinite-jest-by-david-foster-wallace/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Infinite Jest</a> for more in-depth review of the book. Also, <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/atlas-shrugged-by-ayn-rand/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand</a>, another of the longest books we read, that ended up filmed for a movie. Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we're running, special events, and more. Links from the Episode Mentioned in the show <ul> <li><a href="https://www.reddit.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Reddit</a> [3:20]</li> <li><a href="https://creativecommons.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Creative Commons</a> [3:30]</li> <li><a href="http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/ijend" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">What Happens at the End of Infinite Jest? (or, the Infinite Jest ending explained) – Aaron Swartz Blog</a> [3:40]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futurama" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Futurama</a> [11:33]</li> <li><a href="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0910936/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pineapple Express</a> [11:35]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_ape_hypothesis" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Aquatic Apes Theory</a> [16:02]</li> <li><a href="https://ambiguities.wordpress.com/2008/11/02/the-wraith/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Wraith – The Ambiguities Blog</a> [20:11]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_(TV_series)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lost</a> [23:40]</li> <li><a href="http://infinitesummer.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&amp;t=268" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">John Wayne and Avril Conspiracy Theories</a> [25:28]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medusa" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Medusa</a> [33:36]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged_(film_series)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Atlas Shrugged (film series)</a> [40:30]</li> <li><a href="https://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Game of Thrones</a> [43:00]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Office_(U.S._TV_series)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Office</a> [45:10]</li> </ul> Books mentioned <ul> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Infinite-Jest-David-Foster-Wallace-ebook/dp/B004TSKKE0/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace</a> (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/infinite-jest-by-david-foster-wallace/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">book episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Hamlet-Folger-Library-Shakespeare-William/dp/074347712X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Hamlet by William Shakespeare</a> [5:23]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Metamorphosis-Norton-Critical-Editions/dp/0393923207/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Metamorphosis by Franz Kafka</a> [7:48]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/1984-Signet-Classics-George-Orwell/dp/0451524934/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> 1984 by George Orwell</a> [26:50]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Pale-King-David-Foster-Wallace/dp/0316074225/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Pale King by David Foster Wallace</a> [36:50]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Shrugged-Ayn-Rand-ebook/dp/B003V8B5XO/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand</a> [46:38] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/atlas-shrugged-by-ayn-rand/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">book episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Romance-Three-Kingdoms-Luo-Guanzhong/dp/024133277X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Romance of The Three Kingdoms by Luo Guanzhong</a> [47:07]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Miserables-Penguin-Classics-Victor-Hugo/dp/0140444300/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Les Miserables by Victor Hugo</a> [47:10]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/War-Peace-Penguin-Clothbound-Classics/dp/0241265541/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=war+and+peace&amp;qid=1557258012&amp;s=books&amp;sr=1-1/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> War and Peace by Tolstoy</a> [47:29]</li> </ul> People mentioned <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Foster_Wallace" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">David Foster Wallace</a></li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Aaron Swartz</a> [2:25]</li> </ul> 0:00 – Spoiler Alert: this a commentary to Infinite Jest book. We discuss theories about those parts of the book that were left without There will be spoilers. Refer to the previous episode for more deep book review. 3:55 – Theory #1. The ghost/wraith is pretty obviously Hal’s father, the guy who made the Entertainment. He’s spirit was kind of resurrected by the radiation coming from the garbage dumped in the are he was buried. Allusions to Hamlet. JOI created Infinite Jest to take Hal out of his shell of silence. Unreliable narrators. 6:49 – Theory #2. DMZ or Madam Psychosis. The wraith steals the drug to give it to Hal via the toothbrush. Parallel with Kafka’s Metamorphosis. Hal’s experiences with the mold. He couldn’t communicate → Eats the mold → Communicates, but emotionless and stoic → Gets DMZ → Can’t talk again, but gains emotional complexity. 9:55 – Theory #3. Effects of marijuana withdrawal. Hal’s collapse and Gately’s help in the hospital. Digging up Hal’s father’s head. Connection with Gately’s vision. Hal, Gately, Joelle and John Wayne looking for the anti-Entertainment cartridge but it’s not there anymore. The suspect falls on Orin. How he new about it? Probably because of Joelle (they were dating). 13:21 – Weird theories around Avril, Hal-Orin-Mario’s mom. Apparently Avril is modeled after DFW’s mom. Theory #4. She is an A.F.R. or O.U.S. member, the secret terrorists or intelligence organizations. Affairs with John Wayne, Charles C.T. (stepbrother?). 16:10 – Theory #5. Orin, the oldest brother, fathered Mario with Avril. Avril can be the hand model. Orin doesn’t go to his father funeral. Other stories of parents abusing their sons. Who was in the car with Avril? 18:59 – Why was ghost Jim moving stuff around in the tennis academy? 19:59 – Theory #6. Why DFW uses the word wraith instead of ghost? The wraith explains to Don that it takes enormous effort for him to appear to Don: “Wraiths by and large exist (putting his arms out slowly and making little quotation-mark finger-wiggles as he said exist) in a totally different Heisenbergian dimension of rate-change and time-passage.”  Therefore, the wraith has to stand still for extremely long periods of time to appear at all to Don. 21:07 – Theory #7. Speculations that Jim ends up possessing Hal. 22:24 – Theory #8. How did DFW write the book? Did he mapped all out and then intentionally leave out specific sections so people can come up with theories? TV shows with open twists. Apparently Infinite Jest was longer. 24:53 – Theory #9. C.T. is Mario’s father. 25:23 – Theory #10. Avril and Luria are the same person. Theory #11. Orin didn’t die by the end of the book. 1984 flashbacks in the scenes with Luria. 27:08 – Mold in the basement. Mold that feeds on mold. Criticism against mold as a real thing, and more as a metaphor of the teens age difficulties. 29:33 – Theory #12. Did Hal watch the Entertainment or part of it? Doubts about how he got a copy of the movie. 31:11 – Theory #13. Hal has internally self synthesized DMZ because of the mold. 32:26 – Orin thought Joelle and Himself were lovers. Maybe that was because he didn’t want to attend his father funeral. Speculations about covering Joelle: is she disfigured or is she really so beautiful that needs to use a veil? How Joelle got acid in her face. Molly’s story. Joelle using a veil after filming Infinite Jest. 35:30 – What was the movie about? Things the reader is not allowed to know. Other DFW books. Difficulties explaining what’s the book about. Addiction and living passively. 40:00 – Would Infinite Jest make a good movie or not? Problems with Atlas Shrugged bad movie. Formats evolving after Netflix. Most of the value in Infinite Jest comes from the descriptions, not that much happens between the characters. Getting the chaotic feeling to a movie. DFW against an Infinite Jest movie. Longest books. Sierra Leone and Quebequian terrorists. 48:55 – If you enjoyed this weird episode of Made You Think, we appreciate any review on <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/made-you-think/id1281256991?mt=2" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> iTunes</a> or if you share with your friends. If you didn’t like it, it’s OK, that’s an experiment, so go listen to a normal episode of the podcast. The previous episode about Infinite Jest is probably a much better introduction to the book than this episode. Find us on Twitter <a href="https://twitter.com/therealneils?lang=en" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@TheRealNeilS</a> and <a href="https://twitter.com/nateliason?lang=en" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@nateliason</a> and join the email list at <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Made You Think Podcast</a>. The email list is the best way to stay up to date on future episodes and things that are going on with the show. Check out ways to support the show at <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/support/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">madeyouthinkpodcast.com/support</a>.

61: Infinite Discussions. The most Credible and Incredible Theories behind Infinite Jest

Every move that an infinite player makes is towards the horizon, and every move a finite player makes is within a boundary. After reading Finite and Infinite Games, you’ll never see the world the same. This simple dichotomy, finite and infinite, will rethink how you see business, life, love, goals, friendships, play, war, and everything you come across. Once you learn to think about the horizon… there’s no going back. We covered a wide range of topics in this discussion, including:  Improving your life with new perspectives Promoting personal growth by defining your boundaries and pushing past them Improving your motivation with the infinite mindset Finding the balance between over-working and contented leisure Consciousness and illusory experiences Insights into our relationship with nature  And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of  Finite and Infinite Games! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to listen to  our episode on Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman, to learn more about the negative impacts that technology has on us and on how to prevent these impacts. Also, be sure to listen to  our episode on Mastery by Robert Greene, to learn how to become a master at your craft and improve your life. Mentioned in the show:   Made You Think Cryptocurrency episode [0:22] Valve [27:57] Steam [28:07] Zappos [28:59] Wait But Why [31:16]  Elon Musk’s Secret Sauce article [31:17] Fight Through the Suck article [33:25] Narrative Fallacy [34:12]  Made You Think Antifragile episode [34:15]  Made You Think The Power of Myth episode [39:15] The Philosophy of Mind [47:04]  What it’s Like to Be a Bat paper [47:05] The Cartesian [48:58]  All Natural Apple Meme [1:09:02]  Made You Think Amusing Ourselves to Death episode [1:15:42]  The Lincoln Douglas debates [1:15:42]  Books mentioned:   Finite and Infinite Games  The Red Book [19:05]  Bhagavad Gita [21:45] (Nat’s Notes)  The Way of Zen [21:48] (Nat’s Notes)  Sapiens [22:36] (Nat’s Notes)  Valve Employee Handbook [28:19]  The Dip [32:43] (Nat’s Notes)  Antifragile [34:15] (Nat’s Notes) (Made You Think episode)  The Snowball [36:40]  The Power of Myth [39:15] (Nat’s Notes) (Made You Think episode) The Quran [39:20]  The Art of Seduction [55:50] (Nat’s Notes)  The Game [55:52] (Nat’s Notes)  Astrophysics for People in a Hurry [1:03:38]  The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels [1:10:40]  Amusing Ourselves to Death [1:15:42] (Nat’s Notes) (Made You Think episode)  Zen Mind Beginner’s Mind [1:16:35] (Nat’s Notes)  The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up [1:26:00] (Nat’s Notes)  1984 [1:31:26]  The Sovereign Individual [1:36:32] (Nat’s Notes) (Made You Think episode)  Godel Escher Bach [1:36:34]  People mentioned:  James P. Carse Taylor Pearson [0:19] Carl Jung [19:05] Bruce Lee [20:23] Plato [21:23] Seth Godin [32:43] Justin Mares [33:25] Nassim Nicholas Taleb [34:15] Warren Buffett [36:19]  Kyrie Irving [38:27] Thomas Nagel [47:05] Descartes [48:58]  Robert Greene [55:50] Neil Strauss [55:52] Neil DeGrasse Tyson [1:03:38] Elon Musk [1:14:04] Charles Darwin [1:15:37]  0:00 - Intro to the book’s discussion, a thesis quote from the book, and talking about the unique writing of the book. 2:48 - The difference between a finite and infinite game, some powerful lessons, and some real-world examples. 8:01 - The distinction between life or death games and some advice on finding the balance between working too much and being content with not working at all. 11:38 - Some more detail on the finite games, thoughts on the past nature that titles have, and thoughts on achieving your goals and accomplishing things. 18:08 - Our social nature, how that affects these games, and the collective consciousness. 20:43 - Ancient philosophy’s timeless nature and the wide range of influence that these philosophies have had. Also, thoughts on the development of various philosophies. 23:27 - Thoughts on war from the book and the author’s perspective on war. 25:52 - The theory on titles and accomplishments in regards to large and small companies as well as bureaucracy. 29:55 - Bureaucracy in schools, the finite game that schools are, and the title theory applied to schools and degrees. 31:08 - Thinking of everything as a game and taking more risks. Also, some thoughts on how much time you have for major projects that you can accomplish in your life and being selective with those projects. 34:42 - Thoughts on the past nature of wealth, showing wealth off, and wealth in general. 37:33 - Discussion on the boundaries of these games, how successful people think in regards to these boundaries, and constantly striving for a larger goal that’s never achieved. Expanding your boundaries, looking through them, and reaching for the horizon. 42:46 - Defining your boundaries by noticing resistance, and pushing through that resistance or increasing it continuously. Pushing past your limits, living on your edge, and recognizing these artificially self-imposed boundaries. 46:03 - The section on what we know to be true, illusory experiences, consciousness, and thoughts on uploading our brains and consciousness to computers, and teleporting ourselves and consciousnesses. 54:52 - The translation of the game towards sexuality and the infinite and finite players within that. Also, thoughts on sexuality and social hierarchy and sacrificing love for other things. 58:32 - The thoughts of parents being like an abstract audience, where even if they aren’t there, you’re still trying to impress them. Also, more on finite sexuality and infinite sexuality. 1:00:57 - The nature of a finite game and the limits of a finite game. “It’s all the limits that you choose to play the game within”. Also, applying this to the universe, applying it to time, and to other real-world examples. 1:05:18 - Using the infinite mindset to become more motivated for your goals, to achieve more, and to keep doing more. 1:06:58 - The chapter on nature and its horizons. How everything that happens is natural and how nature just is. 1:10:39 - The morality of fossil fuels, some thoughts on fossil fuel usage, and some more thoughts on the game of nature. 1:14:08 - The author’s perspective on explanation and its relation to arguments. Also, the nature of arguments in general. 1:17:44 - Discussion on our control over nature and us versus nature. Also, the author’s thoughts on traveling and some discussion on different areas around the world. 1:21:45 - The chapter on nature and the machine world. The comparison of machines with gardens. 1:26:29 - Thoughts on all types waste and how we view waste. 1:27:48 - The book’s section on myth, and some discussion on myth and the relationship with infinite and finite players. 1:32:06 - Thoughts on how there is but one infinite game, and some interpretations of this thought. Also, the master player and how they play these finite and infinite games. 1:34:46 - Wrap-up and some closing thoughts. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com If you’re thinking about it from a more infinite standpoint, the goal is to simply keep building it, keep growing it, and keep making it bigger. There’s not really a clear end goal that you’re getting to.

Every move that an infinite player makes is towards the horizon, and every move a finite player makes is within a boundary. After reading Finite and Infinite Games, you’ll never see the world the same. This simple dichotomy, finite and infinite, will rethink how you see business, life, love, goals, friendships, play, war, and everything you come across. Once you learn to think about the horizon… there’s no going back. We covered a wide range of topics in this discussion, including: <ul> <li>Improving your life with new perspectives</li> <li>Promoting personal growth by defining your boundaries and pushing past them</li> <li>Improving your motivation with the infinite mindset</li> <li>Finding the balance between over-working and contented leisure</li> <li>Consciousness and illusory experiences</li> <li>Insights into our relationship with nature</li> </ul> And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to grab a copy of <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Finite-Infinite-Games-James-Carse/dp/1476731713/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Finite and Infinite Games</a>! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to listen to <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/amusing-ourselves-to-death-neil-postman/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> our episode on Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman</a>, to learn more about the negative impacts that technology has on us and on how to prevent these impacts. Also, be sure to listen to <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/mastery-robert-greene/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> our episode on Mastery by Robert Greene</a>, to learn how to become a master at your craft and improve your life. Mentioned in the show: <ul> <li><a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/cryptocurrency-crash-course/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Made You Think Cryptocurrency episode</a> [0:22]</li> <li><a href="http://www.valvesoftware.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Valve</a> [27:57]</li> <li><a href="http://store.steampowered.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Steam</a> [28:07]</li> <li><a href="https://www.zappos.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Zappos</a> [28:59]</li> <li><a href="https://waitbutwhy.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Wait But Why</a> [31:16]</li> <li><a href="https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/11/the-cook-and-the-chef-musks-secret-sauce.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Elon Musk’s Secret Sauce article</a> [31:17]</li> <li><a href="http://justinmares.com/fight-through-the-suck/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Fight Through the Suck article</a> [33:25]</li> <li><a href="https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-narrative-fallacy" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Narrative Fallacy</a> [34:12]</li> <li><a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/antifragile-nassim-taleb/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Made You Think Antifragile episode</a> [34:15]</li> <li><a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/power-myth-joseph-campbell/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Made You Think The Power of Myth episode</a> [39:15]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_mind" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Philosophy of Mind</a> [47:04]</li> <li><a href="https://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/iatl/activities/modules/ugmodules/humananimalstudies/lectures/32/nagel_bat.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> What it’s Like to Be a Bat paper</a> [47:05]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Cartesian</a> [48:58]</li> <li><a href="http://blog.everydayscientist.com/wp-content/uploads/we-love-chemicals-620-450x636.jpg" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> All Natural Apple Meme</a> [1:09:02]</li> <li><a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/amusing-ourselves-to-death-neil-postman/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Made You Think Amusing Ourselves to Death episode</a> [1:15:42]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln%E2%80%93Douglas_debates" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Lincoln Douglas debates</a> [1:15:42]</li> </ul> Books mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Finite-Infinite-Games-James-Carse/dp/1476731713/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Finite and Infinite Games</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Red-Book-Philemon-C-Jung/dp/0393065677/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Red Book</a> [19:05]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Bhagavad-Easwarans-Classics-Indian-Spirituality/dp/1586380192/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Bhagavad Gita</a> [21:45] (<a href="http://www.nateliason.com/lessons/bhagavad-gita/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Way-Zen-Alan-W-Watts/dp/0375705104/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Way of Zen</a> [21:48] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/the-way-of-zen-alan-watts/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari/dp/0062316095" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Sapiens</a> [22:36] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/sapiens-yuval-noah-harari/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="http://www.valvesoftware.com/company/Valve_Handbook_LowRes.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Valve Employee Handbook</a> [28:19]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Dip-Little-Book-Teaches-Stick/dp/1591841666/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Dip</a> [32:43] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/the-dip-seth-godin/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Antifragile-Things-That-Disorder-Incerto/dp/0812979680/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Antifragile</a> [34:15] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/antifragile/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/antifragile-nassim-taleb/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Made You Think episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Snowball-Warren-Buffett-Business-Life/dp/0553384619/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Snowball</a> [36:40]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Power-Myth-Joseph-Campbell/dp/0385418868/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Power of Myth</a> [39:15] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/power-myth-joseph-campbell/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/power-myth-joseph-campbell/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Made You Think episod</a>e)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Quran</a> [39:20]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Art-Seduction-Robert-Greene/dp/0142001198/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Art of Seduction</a> [55:50] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/art-seduction-robert-greene/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Game-Penetrating-Secret-Society-Artists/dp/0060554738/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Game</a> [55:52] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/game-neil-strauss/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Astrophysics-People-Hurry-deGrasse-Tyson/dp/0393609391/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Astrophysics for People in a Hurry</a> [1:03:38]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Moral-Case-Fossil-Fuels/dp/1591847443/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels</a> [1:10:40]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Amusing Ourselves to Death</a> [1:15:42] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/amusing-death-neil-postman/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/amusing-ourselves-to-death-neil-postman/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Made You Think episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Zen-Mind-Beginners-Informal-Meditation/dp/1590308492/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Zen Mind Beginner’s Mind</a> [1:16:35] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/zen-mind-beginners-mind-shunryu-suzuki/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Life-Changing-Magic-Tidying-Decluttering-Organizing/dp/1607747308/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up</a> [1:26:00] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/life-changing-magic-tidying-marie-kondo/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/1984-Signet-Classics-George-Orwell/dp/0451524934/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> 1984</a> [1:31:26]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Sovereign-Individual-Mastering-Transition-Information/dp/0684832720/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Sovereign Individual</a> [1:36:32] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/sovereign-individual/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/sovereign-individual/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Made You Think episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/G%C3%B6del-Escher-Bach-Eternal-Golden/dp/0465026567/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Godel Escher Bach</a> [1:36:34]</li> </ul> People mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="http://jamescarse.com/wp/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">James P. Carse</a></li> <li><a href="https://taylorpearson.me/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Taylor Pearson</a> [0:19]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Carl Jung</a> [19:05]</li> <li><a href="https://www.brucelee.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Bruce Lee</a> [20:23]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Plato</a> [21:23]</li> <li><a href="http://www.sethgodin.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Seth Godin</a> [32:43]</li> <li><a href="http://justinmares.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Justin Mares</a> [33:25]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassim_Nicholas_Taleb" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nassim Nicholas Taleb</a> [34:15]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Buffett" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Warren Buffett</a> [36:19]</li> <li><a href="https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kyrie-irvings-flat-earth-talk-causing-headaches-for-science-teachers/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Kyrie Irving</a> [38:27]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Nagel" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Thomas Nagel</a> [47:05]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Descartes" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Descartes</a> [48:58]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Greene_(American_author)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Robert Greene</a> [55:50]</li> <li><a href="http://www.neilstrauss.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil Strauss</a> [55:52]</li> <li><a href="http://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil DeGrasse Tyson</a> [1:03:38]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Elon Musk</a> [1:14:04]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Darwin" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Charles Darwin</a> [1:15:37]</li> </ul> 0:00 - Intro to the book’s discussion, a thesis quote from the book, and talking about the unique writing of the book. 2:48 - The difference between a finite and infinite game, some powerful lessons, and some real-world examples. 8:01 - The distinction between life or death games and some advice on finding the balance between working too much and being content with not working at all. 11:38 - Some more detail on the finite games, thoughts on the past nature that titles have, and thoughts on achieving your goals and accomplishing things. 18:08 - Our social nature, how that affects these games, and the collective consciousness. 20:43 - Ancient philosophy’s timeless nature and the wide range of influence that these philosophies have had. Also, thoughts on the development of various philosophies. 23:27 - Thoughts on war from the book and the author’s perspective on war. 25:52 - The theory on titles and accomplishments in regards to large and small companies as well as bureaucracy. 29:55 - Bureaucracy in schools, the finite game that schools are, and the title theory applied to schools and degrees. 31:08 - Thinking of everything as a game and taking more risks. Also, some thoughts on how much time you have for major projects that you can accomplish in your life and being selective with those projects. 34:42 - Thoughts on the past nature of wealth, showing wealth off, and wealth in general. 37:33 - Discussion on the boundaries of these games, how successful people think in regards to these boundaries, and constantly striving for a larger goal that’s never achieved. Expanding your boundaries, looking through them, and reaching for the horizon. 42:46 - Defining your boundaries by noticing resistance, and pushing through that resistance or increasing it continuously. Pushing past your limits, living on your edge, and recognizing these artificially self-imposed boundaries. 46:03 - The section on what we know to be true, illusory experiences, consciousness, and thoughts on uploading our brains and consciousness to computers, and teleporting ourselves and consciousnesses. 54:52 - The translation of the game towards sexuality and the infinite and finite players within that. Also, thoughts on sexuality and social hierarchy and sacrificing love for other things. 58:32 - The thoughts of parents being like an abstract audience, where even if they aren’t there, you’re still trying to impress them. Also, more on finite sexuality and infinite sexuality. 1:00:57 - The nature of a finite game and the limits of a finite game. “It’s all the limits that you choose to play the game within”. Also, applying this to the universe, applying it to time, and to other real-world examples. 1:05:18 - Using the infinite mindset to become more motivated for your goals, to achieve more, and to keep doing more. 1:06:58 - The chapter on nature and its horizons. How everything that happens is natural and how nature just is. 1:10:39 - The morality of fossil fuels, some thoughts on fossil fuel usage, and some more thoughts on the game of nature. 1:14:08 - The author’s perspective on explanation and its relation to arguments. Also, the nature of arguments in general. 1:17:44 - Discussion on our control over nature and us versus nature. Also, the author’s thoughts on traveling and some discussion on different areas around the world. 1:21:45 - The chapter on nature and the machine world. The comparison of machines with gardens. 1:26:29 - Thoughts on all types waste and how we view waste. 1:27:48 - The book’s section on myth, and some discussion on myth and the relationship with infinite and finite players. 1:32:06 - Thoughts on how there is but one infinite game, and some interpretations of this thought. Also, the master player and how they play these finite and infinite games. 1:34:46 - Wrap-up and some closing thoughts. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com</a> If you’re thinking about it from a more infinite standpoint, the goal is to simply keep building it, keep growing it, and keep making it bigger. There’s not really a clear end goal that you’re getting to.

9: All Limitations are Self-Limitations: Finite and Infinite Games by James P. Carse

Charlie Munger

I had found that theory was a superpower in helping one get what one wanted, as I had early discovered in school where I had excelled without labor, guided by theory. While many others without mastery of theory, failed, despite monstrous effort. In this episode of Made You Think, we discuss The Psychology of Human Misjudgments. This was a “speech” compiled by Charlie Munger from three other speeches he gave, digging into a toolkit that he uses to make sure he’s not being fooled by his mental biases. He digs into each of the 25 biases that adversely affect your thinking in work and life, and how we might watch out for them in order to make better decisions ourselves. We managed to dig into *almost* all of them during the show.  A list of all 25 cognitive biases can be found here. We covered...  The 25 cognitive biases that lead to poor decision making. Breaking down each of these biases and applying them. How these biases can positively or negatively affect everyday life. Benefiting from these biases and noticing yourself using them.  And more. Please enjoy, and be sure to check out  The Psychology of Human Misjudgments! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to listen to our  episode on Antifragile by Nassim Nicholas Taleb, to learn how to profit from chaos, and  our episode on How to Think Like Elon Musk, to learn how to emulate Musk’s way of thinking for extreme advantages.  Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we're running, special events, and more. Mentioned in the show:  Berkshire Hathaway [0:55] Joe Rogan Podcast [4:10] Neil’s article on The Optionality Trap [7:22] Xerox [9:47] Stripe [12:10]  Made You Think episode 15 (The Goal) [16:54] Sratechery [27:15]  Pro-Neutrality, Anti-Title II article [27:15] Bookinabox [52:01] David and Goliath [56:24] Carnegie Mellon [56:49] Revisionist History [58:25] Wesley college [58:31] Modafinil [1:03:37]  Made You Think episode on Cryptocurrency [1:10:03] Preston Byrne’s blog [1:11:40] AVC.com [1:14:52]  Books mentioned:   The Psychology of Human Misjudgments  Amusing Ourselves to Death [0:31] (Nat’s Notes) (episode on the book)  Poor Charlie’s Almanack [0:43]  Principles [5:16] (Nat’s Notes) (episode on the book)  The Goal [17:00] (Nat’s Notes) (episode on the book)  Emergency [24:49] (Nat’s Notes) (episode on the book)  Influence [50:45]  Giftology [52:04]  Peak [55:35] (Nat’s Notes)  Outliers [59:12]  Harry Potter [1:21:16]  The Inner Game of Tennis [1:22:19] (Nat’s Notes) (episode on the book)  People mentioned:  Elon Musk [0:27] (How to Think Like Elon Musk episode) Charlie Munger [0:37] Warren Buffett [0:53] Joe Rogan [4:10] Ray Dalio [5:16] (Principles episode) LeBron James [47:38] Robert Cialdini [50:45] E.O. Wilson [50:56] Zak Slayback [52:03] Malcolm Gladwell [55:38] Anders Ericsson [55:40]  Steve Faloon [57:04] Leo Tolstoy [1:00:30] Nassim Nicholas Taleb [1:10:58] (Antifragile episode) Preston Byrne [1:11:40] Taylor Pearson [1:11:42] Adil Majid [1:13:45]  Fred Wilson [1:14:46]  0:00 - Introductory quote, a bit of background on this episode, and a bit on the author Charlie Munger. 4:46 - How the speech is basically structured and what the goals of the speech are. 9:19 - The first of the 25 cognitive biases that lead to poor decision making, which is thinking about incentives above everything else. Also, a few examples on business infrastructure flaws and companies in general. “In your company, if you’re incentivizing people to tell you bad news instead of good news, that is so important.” 17:12 - The second of the 25 cognitive biases, the liking and loving tendency. “If they love this person, they will gloss over the bad parts.” (Tangent at 19:10) Some thoughts on the psychological influences in various mass shootings such as tumors and neurological issues, and on mass shootings in general. 25:34 - The third cognitive bias, the disliking and hating tendency. “However we feel about something or someone, we will distort the facts either to make us feel stronger positively or stronger negatively.” Also, some discussion on net-neutrality, various monopolies, and some thoughts on Netflix. 31:19 - Further discussion on the disliking and hating tendency bias, and some thoughts on cognitive foundations that we have which are based on irrational things. 34:57 - Number four, the doubt avoidance tendency. Some examples of this. 37:03 - Number five, the inconsistency avoidance bias. Giving favors to people that may dislike you, to make them lean towards liking you and be consistent. Some other examples of this, as well. Tangent at 41:30 on the cognitive dissonance with cosmetic companies and animal testing. 43:55 - Number six, the curiosity bias and number seven, the conscient fairness tendency (how no fair world exists). Some examples of this. Also, a bit on the fundamental attribution error, in which perceive people to be inherently bad if they do something wrong. 47:10 - Number eight, the envy/jealousy tendency. Where we tend to get envious and jealous whenever other people have good things happen to them. Some examples of this. 50:40 - Number nine, on reciprocation. Where if someone does something either bad or good to us, we want to do the same to them. 52:50 - Number ten, the influence from mere association tendency. When you start seeing things go together, the opinion of one will affect your opinion on the other (such as expensive equals good). Some other examples on this, as well. “Watch out when you assume someone is qualified due to their associations.” 55:30 - Tangent on the 10,000-hour rule and how experience doesn’t equal skill or work proficiency. A bit of discussion on Ericsson’s original research that led to Gladwell’s 10,000-hour rule theory. 59:47 - Number eleven, simple psychological denial. Distorting the facts until they become bearable for our own news. Number twelve, excessive self-regard. Also, a bit on the Tolstoy effect that happens with criminals and the natural tendency to ascribe the best notions to our actions. Drug usage within sports and bodybuilding discussed here, as well. 1:06:17 - Tangent on the rumor of Michael Jordan taking his year off to play baseball, but actually being secretly suspended by the NBA. Also, how some schools will try to get rid of the mentally ill, to avoid having a suicide case on their hands. 1:08:32 - Number thirteen on over-optimism. Being overly optimistic towards things that you want to happen. Number fourteen, the deprival super-reaction tendency. Acting with an irrational intensity to recover anything of value that was lost. Some thoughts on bitcoin here, as well. 1:13:37 - Number fifteen, the social-proof tendency. The tendency to think and act like others who are around you. 1:15:26 - Number sixteen, contrast-misreaction tendency. The tendency to go for something that lies in between extreme contrasting things. “If you have three items and want someone to buy the middle one, if you really overprice one and really underprice the other, people will think the one in the middle is reasonably priced even if it is still overpriced.” 1:17:22 - Seventeen, the stress influence tendency. Stress causing extreme reactions, bad decisions, and dysfunction. Eighteen, availability misweighing tendency. If something is clear in our minds, we tend to overweigh its significance. 1:18:54 - Skipping ahead to number twenty-five, the Lollapalooza tendency, where all of these effects combined come into play. Also, some funny examples of various biases coming into play. 1:23:21 - Wrap-up and some information on the podcast, podcast feedback and reviews, the newsletter, and giveaways. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com

I had found that theory was a superpower in helping one get what one wanted, as I had early discovered in school where I had excelled without labor, guided by theory. While many others without mastery of theory, failed, despite monstrous effort. In this episode of Made You Think, we discuss The Psychology of Human Misjudgments. This was a “speech” compiled by Charlie Munger from three other speeches he gave, digging into a toolkit that he uses to make sure he’s not being fooled by his mental biases. He digs into each of the 25 biases that adversely affect your thinking in work and life, and how we might watch out for them in order to make better decisions ourselves. We managed to dig into *almost* all of them during the show. A list of all 25 cognitive biases can be found <a href="http://25cognitivebiases.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here</a>. We covered... <ul> <li>The 25 cognitive biases that lead to poor decision making.</li> <li>Breaking down each of these biases and applying them.</li> <li>How these biases can positively or negatively affect everyday life.</li> <li>Benefiting from these biases and noticing yourself using them.</li> </ul> And more. Please enjoy, and be sure to check out <a href="https://buffettmungerwisdom.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/mungerspeech_june_95.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Psychology of Human Misjudgments</a>! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to listen to our <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/antifragile-nassim-taleb/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> episode on Antifragile by Nassim Nicholas Taleb</a>, to learn how to profit from chaos, and <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/think-like-elon-musk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> our episode on How to Think Like Elon Musk</a>, to learn how to emulate Musk’s way of thinking for extreme advantages. Be sure to join our mailing list to find out about what books are coming up, giveaways we're running, special events, and more. Mentioned in the show: <ul> <li><a href="http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Berkshire Hathaway</a> [0:55]</li> <li><a href="http://podcasts.joerogan.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Joe Rogan Podcast</a> [4:10]</li> <li><a href="http://www.neilsoni.com/optionality-trap/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil’s article on The Optionality Trap</a> [7:22]</li> <li><a href="https://www.xerox.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Xerox</a> [9:47]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stripe_(company)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Stripe</a> [12:10]</li> <li><a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/the-goal-eliyahu-goldratt/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Made You Think episode 15</a> (The Goal) [16:54]</li> <li><a href="https://stratechery.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Sratechery</a> [27:15]</li> <li><a href="https://stratechery.com/2017/pro-neutrality-anti-title-ii/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Pro-Neutrality, Anti-Title II article</a> [27:15]</li> <li><a href="https://bookinabox.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Bookinabox</a> [52:01]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">David and Goliath</a> [56:24]</li> <li><a href="https://www.cmu.edu/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Carnegie Mellon</a> [56:49]</li> <li><a href="http://revisionisthistory.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Revisionist History</a> [58:25]</li> <li><a href="http://wesley.edu/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Wesley college</a> [58:31]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Modafinil</a> [1:03:37]</li> <li><a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/cryptocurrency-crash-course/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Made You Think episode on Cryptocurrency</a> [1:10:03]</li> <li><a href="https://prestonbyrne.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Preston Byrne’s blog</a> [1:11:40]</li> <li><a href="http://avc.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">AVC.com</a> [1:14:52]</li> </ul> Books mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://buffettmungerwisdom.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/mungerspeech_june_95.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Psychology of Human Misjudgments</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Amusing Ourselves to Death</a> [0:31] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/amusing-death-neil-postman/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/amusing-ourselves-to-death-neil-postman/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">episode on the book</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Poor-Charlies-Almanack-Charles-Expanded/dp/1578645018/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Poor Charlie’s Almanack</a> [0:43]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Life-Work-Ray-Dalio/dp/1501124021/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Principles</a> [5:16] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/principles-ray-dalio/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/principles-ray-dalio/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">episode on the book</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Goal-Process-Ongoing-Improvement/dp/0884271951/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Goal</a> [17:00] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/the-goal-eliyahu-goldratt/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/the-goal-eliyahu-goldratt/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">episode on the book</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Emergency-This-Book-Will-Save/dp/0060898771/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Emergency</a> [24:49] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/emergency-neil-strauss/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/emergency-neil-strauss/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">episode on the book</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Influence-Practice-Robert-B-Cialdini/dp/0205609996/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Influence</a> [50:45]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Giftology-Increase-Referrals-Strengthen-Retention/dp/1619614332/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Giftology</a> [52:04]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Peak-Secrets-New-Science-Expertise/dp/1531864880/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Peak</a> [55:35] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/peak-anders-ericsson-robert-pool/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Outliers-Story-Success-Malcolm-Gladwell/dp/0316017930/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Outliers</a> [59:12]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/gp/bookseries/B00CJG28U8/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Harry Potter</a> [1:21:16]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Inner-Game-Tennis-Classic-Performance/dp/0679778314/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Inner Game of Tennis</a> [1:22:19] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/inner-game-of-tennis-w-timothy-gallwey/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>) (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/the-inner-game-of-tennis/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">episode on the book</a>)</li> </ul> People mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Elon Musk</a> [0:27] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/think-like-elon-musk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">How to Think Like Elon Musk episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Munger" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Charlie Munger</a> [0:37]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Buffett" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Warren Buffett</a> [0:53]</li> <li><a href="http://podcasts.joerogan.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Joe Rogan</a> [4:10]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Dalio" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ray Dalio</a> [5:16] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/principles-ray-dalio/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Principles episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeBron_James" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">LeBron James</a> [47:38]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cialdini" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Robert Cialdini</a> [50:45]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._O._Wilson" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">E.O. Wilson</a> [50:56]</li> <li><a href="https://zakslayback.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Zak Slayback</a> [52:03]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Gladwell" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Malcolm Gladwell</a> [55:38]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._Anders_Ericsson" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Anders Ericsson</a> [55:40]</li> <li><a href="http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/brian-oneill/2007/04/25/Walking-in-Steve-Faloon-s-footsteps/stories/200704250377" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Steve Faloon</a> [57:04]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Tolstoy" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Leo Tolstoy</a> [1:00:30]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassim_Nicholas_Taleb" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nassim Nicholas Taleb</a> [1:10:58] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/antifragile-nassim-taleb/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Antifragile episode</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://prestonbyrne.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Preston Byrne</a> [1:11:40]</li> <li><a href="https://taylorpearson.me/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Taylor Pearson</a> [1:11:42]</li> <li><a href="http://blog.adilmajid.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Adil Majid</a> [1:13:45]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Wilson_(financier)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Fred Wilson</a> [1:14:46]</li> </ul> 0:00 - Introductory quote, a bit of background on this episode, and a bit on the author Charlie Munger. 4:46 - How the speech is basically structured and what the goals of the speech are. 9:19 - The first of the 25 cognitive biases that lead to poor decision making, which is thinking about incentives above everything else. Also, a few examples on business infrastructure flaws and companies in general. “In your company, if you’re incentivizing people to tell you bad news instead of good news, that is so important.” 17:12 - The second of the 25 cognitive biases, the liking and loving tendency. “If they love this person, they will gloss over the bad parts.” (Tangent at 19:10) Some thoughts on the psychological influences in various mass shootings such as tumors and neurological issues, and on mass shootings in general. 25:34 - The third cognitive bias, the disliking and hating tendency. “However we feel about something or someone, we will distort the facts either to make us feel stronger positively or stronger negatively.” Also, some discussion on net-neutrality, various monopolies, and some thoughts on Netflix. 31:19 - Further discussion on the disliking and hating tendency bias, and some thoughts on cognitive foundations that we have which are based on irrational things. 34:57 - Number four, the doubt avoidance tendency. Some examples of this. 37:03 - Number five, the inconsistency avoidance bias. Giving favors to people that may dislike you, to make them lean towards liking you and be consistent. Some other examples of this, as well. Tangent at 41:30 on the cognitive dissonance with cosmetic companies and animal testing. 43:55 - Number six, the curiosity bias and number seven, the conscient fairness tendency (how no fair world exists). Some examples of this. Also, a bit on the fundamental attribution error, in which perceive people to be inherently bad if they do something wrong. 47:10 - Number eight, the envy/jealousy tendency. Where we tend to get envious and jealous whenever other people have good things happen to them. Some examples of this. 50:40 - Number nine, on reciprocation. Where if someone does something either bad or good to us, we want to do the same to them. 52:50 - Number ten, the influence from mere association tendency. When you start seeing things go together, the opinion of one will affect your opinion on the other (such as expensive equals good). Some other examples on this, as well. “Watch out when you assume someone is qualified due to their associations.” 55:30 - Tangent on the 10,000-hour rule and how experience doesn’t equal skill or work proficiency. A bit of discussion on Ericsson’s original research that led to Gladwell’s 10,000-hour rule theory. 59:47 - Number eleven, simple psychological denial. Distorting the facts until they become bearable for our own news. Number twelve, excessive self-regard. Also, a bit on the Tolstoy effect that happens with criminals and the natural tendency to ascribe the best notions to our actions. Drug usage within sports and bodybuilding discussed here, as well. 1:06:17 - Tangent on the rumor of Michael Jordan taking his year off to play baseball, but actually being secretly suspended by the NBA. Also, how some schools will try to get rid of the mentally ill, to avoid having a suicide case on their hands. 1:08:32 - Number thirteen on over-optimism. Being overly optimistic towards things that you want to happen. Number fourteen, the deprival super-reaction tendency. Acting with an irrational intensity to recover anything of value that was lost. Some thoughts on bitcoin here, as well. 1:13:37 - Number fifteen, the social-proof tendency. The tendency to think and act like others who are around you. 1:15:26 - Number sixteen, contrast-misreaction tendency. The tendency to go for something that lies in between extreme contrasting things. “If you have three items and want someone to buy the middle one, if you really overprice one and really underprice the other, people will think the one in the middle is reasonably priced even if it is still overpriced.” 1:17:22 - Seventeen, the stress influence tendency. Stress causing extreme reactions, bad decisions, and dysfunction. Eighteen, availability misweighing tendency. If something is clear in our minds, we tend to overweigh its significance. 1:18:54 - Skipping ahead to number twenty-five, the Lollapalooza tendency, where all of these effects combined come into play. Also, some funny examples of various biases coming into play. 1:23:21 - Wrap-up and some information on the podcast, podcast feedback and reviews, the newsletter, and giveaways. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com</a>

17: Charlie Munger’s Guide to Better Decisions: The Psychology of Human Misjudgments

Neil Postman

Postman

For some people, yes, computers are necessary and valuable, but for a lot of other people, they are simply accelerating and enabling this useless information consumption. In this episode, we cover how the Internet, social media, television, and technology is ruining our abilities to think, reason, entertain ourselves, and what to do about it. Amusing Ourselves to Death is one of both of our favorite books, and it was fun to see how much it related to the other topics we’ve been covering. We covered a wide range of topics, including:  How various forms of information affect our perception The prevalence of fake news now People concerned about others more than themselves Technology negatively affecting our attention spans The psychological aspects of the media and commercials Minimizing technological distractions How technology has changed our conversations  Enjoy! If you want more on  Amusing Ourselves to Death, be sure to check out  Nat’s notes on the book and to pick up  a copy yourself! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to listen to  our episode on The Sovereign Individual, to better prepare yourself for the cyber-economic future, and to  our episode on In Praise of Idleness, to reduce the guilt to work so much and to improve your leisure time. Mentioned in the show:   Orwell’s essays [2:37] USA Today [12:50] Buzzfeed [13:05] Business Insider [13:10]  Lincoln and Douglas debates [17:09] Pulp Fiction [21:10] Nat’s article on most popular internet sites [28:20] Alexa [28:22]  Nat’s 5-day water fast article [30:45] Nat’s article on Buzzfeed vs WSJ [33:46] Neil’s website [33:13]  Fushimi-Inari-Taisha Shrine [40:59] The Daily Show [1:02:24] The Colbert Report [1:02:25]  Jon Stewart interview fake news [1:05:05]  Jon Stewart interview on Crossfire [1:05:37] Crossfire show [1:05:37]  Free speech issue on campuses article [1:06:59] Trump’s policies [1:12:55]  Trump’s speech in Virginia [1:13:35]  The Google Memo [1:16:10] (Nat’s article on this)  Made You Think episode on The Sovereign Individual [1:22:05] Estee Lauder [1:25:10] Sesame Street [1:27:50] Duolingo [1:29:18] Nat Chat podcast [1:31:12] Slack [1:36:18] Nat’s Facebook setup [1:41:06] Second Life [1:53:04]  Books mentioned:   Amusing Ourselves to Death [1:05] (Nat’s Notes)  Brave New World [1:32]  1984 [1:18]  Antifragile [9:13] (Antifragile’s Made You Think episode) (Nat’s Notes) It’s Charisma, Stupid [9:25] Thomas Paine's Common Sense [21:56]  The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck [22:41] (Nat’s Notes)  50 Shades of Grey [23:15]  Musashi [31:36]  The 4-Hour Workweek [1:36:50] (Nat’s Notes)  People mentioned:  Neil Postman [1:07] George Orwell [1:18] Aldous Huxley [1:32] William Taft [7:20] Abraham Lincoln [7:25] Franklin D. Roosevelt [7:55] Donald Trump [8:30] Barack Obama [8:40] George Bush [8:41] Bill Clinton [8:43] Ronald Reagan [8:44] John F. Kennedy [8:47] Chris Christie [8:52] Paul Graham [9:24] Shakespeare [17:02] Stephen A. Douglas [17:09] Samuel L. Jackson [21:19] John Travolta [21:19] Thomas Paine [21:56] Mark Manson [22:39] James Patterson [26:54] Walden [37:41] Jim Kramer [51:55] Bernie Sanders [1:00:04] Plato [1:09:50] Socrates [1:09:50] Nassim Nicholas Taleb [1:10:12] Hillary Clinton [1:21:00] Scott Adams [1:21:07] Ted Cruz [1:21:07] Justin Mares [1:36:16] Tim Ferriss [1:36:56]  0:00 - Intro to the book’s discussion, an excerpt being read, and the book’s background. 4:14 - Discussion on how the form of the information portrayed affects how we perceive that information, and some of the informational form shifts that we’ve had so far. 6:57 - The visual components of information, and the power of appearance and charisma on success and popularity. 9:58 - Thoughts on the validity of written things versus other forms of information. 12:20 - Discussion on the media and the change of what now passes for quality knowledge. 17:17 - Talk on the lengthy Lincoln and Douglas debates in the 1800’s and how people were able to sit and maintain focus for upwards of seven hours. Also, discussion on how frequently television changes the screen on you. 21:48 - How much more of a book culture it was back in the day. Also, discussion on how reading and typing in full sentences improves speech. 24:49 - Before the internet, the ability to pay attention was much greater, but now there are constant distractions from the internet that diminish that. Also, talk on how many fewer people are reading longer and tougher books now. 31:59 - Discussion on information requiring much more context and evidence, and talk on the click-baity information out there. Talk on websites pushing information that maximizes ad revenue, instead of quality information. 35:28 - The impact that improved informational transfer speed has had on us, positively and negatively. 38:07 - Thoughts on how so many people are fixated on the lives of others, and the negative impact that social media and technology on us by disconnecting us from the present moment. Also, the social pressure of these things. 47:09 - How little the news affects our decisions and how little we actually do to change things that we don’t necessarily like. 52:05 - The large amount of cases where value is added to meaningless data, especially in the news. Also, the news constantly making small issues seem much larger and promoting fake scenarios.56:11 - Discussion on the “peek-a-boo” events that pop up quick, blow up, and then disappear, mostly for entertainment. 57:35 - How television has changed conversation, political changes, and the president using the media to get elected. 1:01:15 - People taking news sources seriously, even though the information is taken out of context and misconstrued. 1:06:40 - The issue with us magnifying small differences and making huge deals out of them and some examples of this. 1:11:33 - How frequent the story changes on the news or on social media “the infinite scroll”, and the media manipulating stories so often, making it extremely hard to trust them. 1:19:30 - Commercials being addressed to the psychological needs of the viewer and not the actual product being sold. Also, politicians using catchy sound bites to have people pay attention to them. 1:27:50 - Discussion on various methods of teaching and the huge number of flaws in these teaching methods. Also, how these widespread methods and technology negatively impact us and our attention span. 1:35:18 - How to have an effective schedule for minimizing these technological distractions and some thoughts on this. 1:41:44 - Discussion on us never needing to be bored again due to technology, and the possible negative impact this has on creativity. 1:44:58 - How much computers really help us, and how they accelerate the intake of useless information. Also, the possible future impacts that current technology will have on us and the workforce. 1:54:06 - Some things that will need to change in teaching systems to fix our shrinking attention spans. 1:57:34 - Wrap-up. Be sure to let us know your thoughts on the episode on Twitter! Simply being able to pay attention will be an extremely valuable skill that ninety percent of us won’t have. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com

For some people, yes, computers are necessary and valuable, but for a lot of other people, they are simply accelerating and enabling this useless information consumption. In this episode, we cover how the Internet, social media, television, and technology is ruining our abilities to think, reason, entertain ourselves, and what to do about it. Amusing Ourselves to Death is one of both of our favorite books, and it was fun to see how much it related to the other topics we’ve been covering. We covered a wide range of topics, including: <ul> <li>How various forms of information affect our perception</li> <li>The prevalence of fake news now</li> <li>People concerned about others more than themselves</li> <li>Technology negatively affecting our attention spans</li> <li>The psychological aspects of the media and commercials</li> <li>Minimizing technological distractions</li> <li>How technology has changed our conversations</li> </ul> Enjoy! If you want more on <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Amusing Ourselves to Death</a>, be sure to check out <a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/amusing-death-neil-postman/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Nat’s notes on the book</a> and to pick up <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> a copy yourself</a>! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to listen to <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/sovereign-individual/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> our episode on The Sovereign Individual</a>, to better prepare yourself for the cyber-economic future, and to <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/in-praise-of-idleness/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> our episode on In Praise of Idleness</a>, to reduce the guilt to work so much and to improve your leisure time. Mentioned in the show: <ul> <li><a href="http://www.openculture.com/2013/11/george-orwells-five-greatest-essays.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Orwell’s essays</a> [2:37]</li> <li><a href="https://www.usatoday.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">USA Today</a> [12:50]</li> <li><a href="https://www.buzzfeed.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Buzzfeed</a> [13:05]</li> <li><a href="http://www.businessinsider.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Business Insider</a> [13:10]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln%E2%80%93Douglas_debates" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Lincoln and Douglas debates</a> [17:09]</li> <li><a href="https://www.pulpfiction.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pulp Fiction</a> [21:10]</li> <li><a href="https://www.nateliason.com/search-to-social/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s article on most popular internet sites</a> [28:20]</li> <li><a href="https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alexa</a> [28:22]</li> <li><a href="https://www.nateliason.com/5-day-water-fast-health-benefits/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Nat’s 5-day water fast article</a> [30:45]</li> <li><a href="https://www.nateliason.com/2-million/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s article on Buzzfeed vs WSJ</a> [33:46]</li> <li><a href="http://www.neilsoni.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil’s website</a> [33:13]</li> <li><a href="https://www.insidekyoto.com/fushimi-inari-taisha-shrine" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Fushimi-Inari-Taisha Shrine</a> [40:59]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Show" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Daily Show</a> [1:02:24]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Colbert_Report" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Colbert Report</a> [1:02:25]</li> <li><a href="http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jon-stewart-why-daily-show-didnt-determine-election-trump-fake-news-cnn-fox-at-ny-times-talk-95" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Jon Stewart interview fake news</a> [1:05:05]</li> <li><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/12/opinion/begala-stewart-blew-up-crossfire/index.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Jon Stewart interview on Crossfire</a> [1:05:37]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossfire_(TV_series)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Crossfire show</a> [1:05:37]</li> <li><a href="https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21728688-reed-college-oregon-shows-left-v-left-clashes-can-be-equally-vitriolic-arguments?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/argumentsoverfreespeechoncampusarenotleftvright" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Free speech issue on campuses article</a> [1:06:59]</li> <li><a href="https://www.politiplatform.com/trump" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Trump’s policies</a> [1:12:55]</li> <li><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/watch-trumps-full-speech-in-west-virginia/2017/08/04/df7de7e2-78d5-11e7-8c17-533c52b2f014_video.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Trump’s speech in Virginia</a> [1:13:35]</li> <li><a href="https://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Google Memo</a> [1:16:10] (<a href="http://observer.com/2017/08/congrats-media-you-proved-the-google-memo-right-sundar-pichai-yonatan-zunger-censorship-diverstiy-criticsm/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s article on this</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/sovereign-individual/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Made You Think episode on The Sovereign Individual</a> [1:22:05]</li> <li><a href="http://www.esteelauder.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Estee Lauder</a> [1:25:10]</li> <li><a href="https://www.sesamestreet.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Sesame Street</a> [1:27:50]</li> <li><a href="https://www.duolingo.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Duolingo</a> [1:29:18]</li> <li><a href="https://www.nateliason.com/podcast/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat Chat podcast</a> [1:31:12]</li> <li><a href="https://slack.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Slack</a> [1:36:18]</li> <li><a href="https://www.nateliason.com/facebook-freedom/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Facebook setup</a> [1:41:06]</li> <li><a href="http://secondlife.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Second Life</a> [1:53:04]</li> </ul> Books mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Amusing Ourselves to Death</a> [1:05] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/amusing-death-neil-postman/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Brave-New-World-Aldous-Huxley/dp/0060850523https://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Brave New World</a> [1:32]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/1984-Signet-Classics-George-Orwell/dp/0451524934https://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> 1984</a> [1:18]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Antifragile-Things-That-Disorder-Incerto/dp/0812979680https://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Antifragile</a> [9:13] (<a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/antifragile-nassim-taleb/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Antifragile’s Made You Think episode</a>) (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/antifragile/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/charisma.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">It’s Charisma, Stupid</a> [9:25]</li> <li><a href="http://www.ushistory.org/paine/commonsense/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Thomas Paine's Common Sense</a> [21:56]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Art-Not-Giving-Counterintuitive/dp/0062457713https://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck</a> [22:41] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/subtle-art-not-giving-fuck-mark-manson/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Fifty-Shades-Grey-Book-Trilogy/dp/0345803485https://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> 50 Shades of Grey</a> [23:15]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Musashi-Epic-Novel-Samurai-Era/dp/156836427Xhttps://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Musashi</a> [31:36]</li> <li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/4-Hour-Workweek-Escape-Live-Anywhere/dp/0307465357https://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/?tag=madethink-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The 4-Hour Workweek</a> [1:36:50] (<a href="https://www.nateliason.com/lessons/4-hour-workweek-timothy-ferriss/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nat’s Notes</a>)</li> </ul> People mentioned: <ul> <li><a href="http://neilpostman.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neil Postman</a> [1:07]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Orwell" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">George Orwell</a> [1:18]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldous_Huxley" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Aldous Huxley</a> [1:32]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Howard_Taft" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">William Taft</a> [7:20]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Abraham Lincoln</a> [7:25]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Franklin D. Roosevelt</a> [7:55]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Donald Trump</a> [8:30]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Barack Obama</a> [8:40]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">George Bush</a> [8:41]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Bill Clinton</a> [8:43]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ronald Reagan</a> [8:44]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">John F. Kennedy</a> [8:47]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Christie" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Chris Christie</a> [8:52]</li> <li><a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/bio.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Paul Graham</a> [9:24]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shakespeare" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Shakespeare</a> [17:02]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_A._Douglas" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Stephen A. Douglas</a> [17:09]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_L._Jackson" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Samuel L. Jackson</a> [21:19]</li> <li><a href="http://travolta.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">John Travolta</a> [21:19]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Thomas Paine</a> [21:56]</li> <li><a href="https://markmanson.net/archive" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Mark Manson</a> [22:39]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Patterson" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">James Patterson</a> [26:54]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walden" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Walden</a> [37:41]</li> <li><a href="https://www.cnbc.com/mad-money/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Jim Kramer</a> [51:55]</li> <li><a href="https://www.sanders.senate.gov/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Bernie Sanders</a> [1:00:04]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Plato</a> [1:09:50]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Socrates</a> [1:09:50]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassim_Nicholas_Taleb" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Nassim Nicholas Taleb</a> [1:10:12]</li> <li><a href="https://www.hillaryclinton.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Hillary Clinton</a> [1:21:00]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Adams" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Scott Adams</a> [1:21:07]</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Cruz" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ted Cruz</a> [1:21:07]</li> <li><a href="http://justinmares.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Justin Mares</a> [1:36:16]</li> <li><a href="https://tim.blog/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Tim Ferriss</a> [1:36:56]</li> </ul> 0:00 - Intro to the book’s discussion, an excerpt being read, and the book’s background. 4:14 - Discussion on how the form of the information portrayed affects how we perceive that information, and some of the informational form shifts that we’ve had so far. 6:57 - The visual components of information, and the power of appearance and charisma on success and popularity. 9:58 - Thoughts on the validity of written things versus other forms of information. 12:20 - Discussion on the media and the change of what now passes for quality knowledge. 17:17 - Talk on the lengthy Lincoln and Douglas debates in the 1800’s and how people were able to sit and maintain focus for upwards of seven hours. Also, discussion on how frequently television changes the screen on you. 21:48 - How much more of a book culture it was back in the day. Also, discussion on how reading and typing in full sentences improves speech. 24:49 - Before the internet, the ability to pay attention was much greater, but now there are constant distractions from the internet that diminish that. Also, talk on how many fewer people are reading longer and tougher books now. 31:59 - Discussion on information requiring much more context and evidence, and talk on the click-baity information out there. Talk on websites pushing information that maximizes ad revenue, instead of quality information. 35:28 - The impact that improved informational transfer speed has had on us, positively and negatively. 38:07 - Thoughts on how so many people are fixated on the lives of others, and the negative impact that social media and technology on us by disconnecting us from the present moment. Also, the social pressure of these things. 47:09 - How little the news affects our decisions and how little we actually do to change things that we don’t necessarily like. 52:05 - The large amount of cases where value is added to meaningless data, especially in the news. Also, the news constantly making small issues seem much larger and promoting fake scenarios.56:11 - Discussion on the “peek-a-boo” events that pop up quick, blow up, and then disappear, mostly for entertainment. 57:35 - How television has changed conversation, political changes, and the president using the media to get elected. 1:01:15 - People taking news sources seriously, even though the information is taken out of context and misconstrued. 1:06:40 - The issue with us magnifying small differences and making huge deals out of them and some examples of this. 1:11:33 - How frequent the story changes on the news or on social media “the infinite scroll”, and the media manipulating stories so often, making it extremely hard to trust them. 1:19:30 - Commercials being addressed to the psychological needs of the viewer and not the actual product being sold. Also, politicians using catchy sound bites to have people pay attention to them. 1:27:50 - Discussion on various methods of teaching and the huge number of flaws in these teaching methods. Also, how these widespread methods and technology negatively impact us and our attention span. 1:35:18 - How to have an effective schedule for minimizing these technological distractions and some thoughts on this. 1:41:44 - Discussion on us never needing to be bored again due to technology, and the possible negative impact this has on creativity. 1:44:58 - How much computers really help us, and how they accelerate the intake of useless information. Also, the possible future impacts that current technology will have on us and the workforce. 1:54:06 - Some things that will need to change in teaching systems to fix our shrinking attention spans. 1:57:34 - Wrap-up. Be sure to let us know your thoughts on the episode on Twitter! Simply being able to pay attention will be an extremely valuable skill that ninety percent of us won’t have. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at <a href="https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com</a>

8: Get Off the Cocaine Pellet Dispenser: Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman

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