My friend Julie Rose joins us to talk about BYUradio’s show (and now podcast) called “Top of Mind”.   It is a production that talks about tough topics (such as politics, social issues) in a nuanced, respectful way.  The show is not out to change your mind—but to “lower the temperature” and model how to talk about important subjects to keep us unified as Latter-day Saints. Julie (a season journalism veteran with over has a 20+-year of work—including stints in California and Charlotte, NC) brings her thoughtful voice to “Top of Mind” to help us be curious, informed, engaged, and willing to learn. Julie also shares some of her own story as a Latter-day Saint (in her late 40s, never married, serving as the YW president in her ward) and what she does to stay engaged in the Church and what we can do to help everyone feel a sense of belonging. I am deeply moved by the efforts of Julie, and everyone involved in the “Top of Mind” podcast and encourage everyone to check it out.   Not only are the topics excellent, but the respectful approach helps us model how to discuss sensitive topics in our circles.   I am also deeply moved by Julie’s personal story.   Thank you, Julie, for being on the podcast and all you do to create Zion. Links:  Top of Mind of podcast: https://www.byuradio.org/topofmind (or just look for Top of Mind with Julie Rose on any podcast app!) First Presidency letter: https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders/2023/6/6/23751117/first-presidency-letter-emphasizes-participation-in-elections-reaffirms-political-neutrality Letter published in The Boston Globe by The Abortion Talks participants: https://www.feminist.com/resources/artspeech/genwom/talkingwith.html The Abortion Talks film: https://abortiontalks.com/ Top of Mind episode about The Abortion Talks: www.byuradio.org/top-of-mind-how-to-talk-about-abortion

My friend Julie Rose joins us to talk about BYUradio’s show (and now podcast) called “Top of Mind”. It is a production that talks about tough topics (such as politics, social issues) in a nuanced, respectful way. The show is not out to change your mind—but to “lower the temperature” and model how to talk about important subjects to keep us unified as Latter-day Saints. Julie (a season journalism veteran with over has a 20+-year of work—including stints in California and Charlotte, NC) brings her thoughtful voice to “Top of Mind” to help us be curious, informed, engaged, and willing to learn. Julie also shares some of her own story as a Latter-day Saint (in her late 40s, never married, serving as the YW president in her ward) and what she does to stay engaged in the Church and what we can do to help everyone feel a sense of belonging. I am deeply moved by the efforts of Julie, and everyone involved in the “Top of Mind” podcast and encourage everyone to check it out. Not only are the topics excellent, but the respectful approach helps us model how to discuss sensitive topics in our circles. I am also deeply moved by Julie’s personal story. Thank you, Julie, for being on the podcast and all you do to create Zion. Links: Top of Mind of podcast: <a href="https://www.byuradio.org/topofmind" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.byuradio.org/topofmind</a> (or just look for Top of Mind with Julie Rose on any podcast app!) First Presidency letter: <a href="https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders/2023/6/6/23751117/first-presidency-letter-emphasizes-participation-in-elections-reaffirms-political-neutrality" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders/2023/6/6/23751117/first-presidency-letter-emphasizes-participation-in-elections-reaffirms-political-neutrality</a> Letter published in The Boston Globe by The Abortion Talks participants: <a href="https://www.feminist.com/resources/artspeech/genwom/talkingwith.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.feminist.com/resources/artspeech/genwom/talkingwith.html</a> The Abortion Talks film: <a href="https://abortiontalks.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://abortiontalks.com/</a> Top of Mind episode about The Abortion Talks: <a href="http://www.byuradio.org/top-of-mind-how-to-talk-about-abortion" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.byuradio.org/top-of-mind-how-to-talk-about-abortion</a>

Episode 682: Julie Rose, Host Top of Mind Podcast From BYUradio

Kristin Sokol

Miki Eberhardt

My friends, this is one of the most unique and powerful podcasts we’ve ever done. I encourage ward councils, local leaders, and families to listen to this podcast to better understand how to love and support our LGBTQ neighbors and friends—and really anyone different than us.  Dan Link, Kristin Sokol, and Miki Eberhart join in this episode to share a remarkable story of a ward family who learn to love and then truly show up for two gay dads in their very homogenous Herriman neighborhood. It’s a story of love, tragedy and how the power of friendship and the spirit of fellowship moved everyone closer to the Savior. Dan talks about growing up in the Church, serving a mission (in the 70’s), but never feeling accepted or normal as a gay Latter-day Saint. He shares his story about finding the love of his life in Ryan and building a life and family together.   Hear their story about being invited to the Ward Trunk-or-Treat in Herriman, Utah. This event, led to Dan and Ryan being curious about what attending church would be like. Dan shares the journey with health challenges his husband Ryan faced and the unwavering ward love and support they received in that time, including seven months of meals that were delivered while Ryan was in the hospital during 2020. Ryan passed away on July 25, 2021, and the ward continued to rally around them, fully participating in Ryan’s Celebration Of Life in the local ward building.   Dan talks about his loving Bishop who asked him to serve as the Ward Librarian and how it led to a full return to church activity. Dan talks about doing the Temple proxy work for Ryan (including baptizing their son for Ryan). Dan talks about his continued love for Ryan and how much he misses him and feels peace and hope for their ability to be together again.  Miki Eberhardt, a Stake Relief Society President in another Herriman Utah Stake, heard this story from her friend Kristin Sokol who is in Dan’s ward. After hearing about this modern miracle, Miki felt impressed to share Dan’s story in her series of Ward Conference talks.   She talks about how loving our neighbor is easy when we believe the same things, cheer for the same sports teams—but counts that only as preschool discipleship. Real discipleship is when we figure out how to love our neighbor when they are nothing like us.   Kristin Sokol, Dan’s longtime friend and neighbor, talks firsthand about how this miracle unfolded in her homogenous Herriman neighborhood and ward family and her love for the Link Family.  Thank you, Dan, Miki, and Kristin, for being on the podcast.  You are all awesome! Links:Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group:www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143Richard Ostler Book:  Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperbackAmazon: amazon.com/dp/1462135773Index of Podcasts:  listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

My friends, this is one of the most unique and powerful podcasts we’ve ever done. I encourage ward councils, local leaders, and families to listen to this podcast to better understand how to love and support our LGBTQ neighbors and friends—and really anyone different than us. Dan Link, Kristin Sokol, and Miki Eberhart join in this episode to share a remarkable story of a ward family who learn to love and then truly show up for two gay dads in their very homogenous Herriman neighborhood. It’s a story of love, tragedy and how the power of friendship and the spirit of fellowship moved everyone closer to the Savior. Dan talks about growing up in the Church, serving a mission (in the 70’s), but never feeling accepted or normal as a gay Latter-day Saint. He shares his story about finding the love of his life in Ryan and building a life and family together. Hear their story about being invited to the Ward Trunk-or-Treat in Herriman, Utah. This event, led to Dan and Ryan being curious about what attending church would be like. Dan shares the journey with health challenges his husband Ryan faced and the unwavering ward love and support they received in that time, including seven months of meals that were delivered while Ryan was in the hospital during 2020. Ryan passed away on July 25, 2021, and the ward continued to rally around them, fully participating in Ryan’s Celebration Of Life in the local ward building. Dan talks about his loving Bishop who asked him to serve as the Ward Librarian and how it led to a full return to church activity. Dan talks about doing the Temple proxy work for Ryan (including baptizing their son for Ryan). Dan talks about his continued love for Ryan and how much he misses him and feels peace and hope for their ability to be together again. Miki Eberhardt, a Stake Relief Society President in another Herriman Utah Stake, heard this story from her friend Kristin Sokol who is in Dan’s ward. After hearing about this modern miracle, Miki felt impressed to share Dan’s story in her series of Ward Conference talks. She talks about how loving our neighbor is easy when we believe the same things, cheer for the same sports teams—but counts that only as preschool discipleship. Real discipleship is when we figure out how to love our neighbor when they are nothing like us. Kristin Sokol, Dan’s longtime friend and neighbor, talks firsthand about how this miracle unfolded in her homogenous Herriman neighborhood and ward family and her love for the Link Family. Thank you, Dan, Miki, and Kristin, for being on the podcast. You are all awesome! Links: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group: <a href="http://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143</a> Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: <a href="http://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback</a> Amazon: <a href="http://amazon.com/dp/1462135773" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">amazon.com/dp/1462135773</a> Index of Podcasts: <a href="http://listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts</a>

Episode 681:  Dan Link (Gay), Kristin Sokol (Ally), Miki Eberhardt (Ally)

In one of our most moving episodes, my friend Tiffany joins us to share her story for the first time on a public platform.  Tiffany talks about her extremely difficult journey to find joy in the Church and in her life throughout many life events that made her question herself, her faith, and even a belief in God.  She discusses some of the traumatic events in her life, including multiple sexual assaults, racism, generational trauma, homelessness and alcoholism that broke her spirit and any faith in the Church, the priesthood and leaders.  A huge advocate of therapy, Tiffany tells how beloved therapists helped her come to terms with her past and helped her look forward to an unlimited future and learn how to love herself as God does. Through therapy, beloved friends (especially queer ones- in and out of the Church), trusted church members and life changing missionaries, Tiffany has now been able to find hope, love and acceptance in the gospel of Jesus Christ.  Tiffany also talks of what can only be described as miraculous personal moments with Apostles of the Lord that prove how much our Heavenly Father loves his children and is aware of our personal heartaches and wants to heal us.  If you are working to see, understand and solve trauma in your life (including trauma resulting from difficult church experiences), Tiffany’s story with help you. If you want to better support those who are survivors of trauma, Tiffany’s story will help you.  Thank you, Tiffany, for being on the podcast. You are brave. You are courageous. You are one of the best examples of the “wounded healer” I know.

In one of our most moving episodes, my friend Tiffany joins us to share her story for the first time on a public platform. Tiffany talks about her extremely difficult journey to find joy in the Church and in her life throughout many life events that made her question herself, her faith, and even a belief in God. She discusses some of the traumatic events in her life, including multiple sexual assaults, racism, generational trauma, homelessness and alcoholism that broke her spirit and any faith in the Church, the priesthood and leaders. A huge advocate of therapy, Tiffany tells how beloved therapists helped her come to terms with her past and helped her look forward to an unlimited future and learn how to love herself as God does. Through therapy, beloved friends (especially queer ones- in and out of the Church), trusted church members and life changing missionaries, Tiffany has now been able to find hope, love and acceptance in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Tiffany also talks of what can only be described as miraculous personal moments with Apostles of the Lord that prove how much our Heavenly Father loves his children and is aware of our personal heartaches and wants to heal us. If you are working to see, understand and solve trauma in your life (including trauma resulting from difficult church experiences), Tiffany’s story with help you. If you want to better support those who are survivors of trauma, Tiffany’s story will help you. Thank you, Tiffany, for being on the podcast. You are brave. You are courageous. You are one of the best examples of the “wounded healer” I know.

Episode 680: Tiffany Mỹloan, Decades of Trauma, Questions of Faith journey

Brandon Cardenaz

Elizabeth Cardenaz

My friends Brandon and Elizabeth Cardenaz (mid 30s, active LDS, married 12 years, 4 children with twins on the way) join us to share their story.   Brandon talks about growing up in conservative communities with unkind and unhelpful things said about gay people and learning to separate that from the gospel of Jesus Christ.   Brandon talks about how there were really no resources for a gay Latter-day Saint and doing the best he could to make his way forward concurrent with feelings a deep shame for his sexual orientation. Brandon talks about his decision to serve a mission and his deep testimony of our restored Church.   Brandon talks about returning how from his mission and dating women.  Brandon talks about coming out to his girlfriend (now his wife Elizabeth) as gay and her prayer to Heavenly Father on if she should marry Brandon.   Elizabeth shares her answer to prayer to marry Brandon. Brandon and talk about an “intervention” to call off their marriage—the day before their temple marriage—as some family members became aware of Brandon’s sexual orientation.   They share their decision to get married and how we should learn to honor individual personal revelation.   They share how they later reconciled with these family members. This is a powerful podcast from a couple in a wonderful, sustainable, and healthy marriage—with a foundation of honestly, communication, and deep peace/no shame around Brandon’s sexuality.   It is story that provides principles to help strengthen other marriages. Thank you, Brandon, and Elizabeth, for being on the podcast.   I was deeply moved listening to your story.   You are both so brave.   You have a beautiful family, and your story will help so many!Links: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group:www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book:  Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462135773 Index of Podcasts:  listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

My friends Brandon and Elizabeth Cardenaz (mid 30s, active LDS, married 12 years, 4 children with twins on the way) join us to share their story. Brandon talks about growing up in conservative communities with unkind and unhelpful things said about gay people and learning to separate that from the gospel of Jesus Christ. Brandon talks about how there were really no resources for a gay Latter-day Saint and doing the best he could to make his way forward concurrent with feelings a deep shame for his sexual orientation. Brandon talks about his decision to serve a mission and his deep testimony of our restored Church. Brandon talks about returning how from his mission and dating women. Brandon talks about coming out to his girlfriend (now his wife Elizabeth) as gay and her prayer to Heavenly Father on if she should marry Brandon. Elizabeth shares her answer to prayer to marry Brandon. Brandon and talk about an “intervention” to call off their marriage—the day before their temple marriage—as some family members became aware of Brandon’s sexual orientation. They share their decision to get married and how we should learn to honor individual personal revelation. They share how they later reconciled with these family members. This is a powerful podcast from a couple in a wonderful, sustainable, and healthy marriage—with a foundation of honestly, communication, and deep peace/no shame around Brandon’s sexuality. It is story that provides principles to help strengthen other marriages. Thank you, Brandon, and Elizabeth, for being on the podcast. I was deeply moved listening to your story. You are both so brave. You have a beautiful family, and your story will help so many! Links: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group: <a href="http://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143</a> Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: <a href="http://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback</a> Amazon: <a href="http://amazon.com/dp/1462135773" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">amazon.com/dp/1462135773</a> Index of Podcasts: <a href="http://listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts</a>

Episode 679: Brandon Cardenaz (Gay) and Elizabeth Cardenaz (Straight);  Wonderful Marriage

Ashley Dyer

My friend @ashley.c.dyer (active LDS RM, nurse, author, living in Boston) joins us to talk about her new book called “Women at the Well: Mini Devotionals for Women of Faith” that covers a range of important questions, like: - Am I truly enough just as I am?- Is there a way to make scripture study more fun?- How do I navigate a faith crisis?- What is grace?- Is it possible to share the gospel without feeling awkward?- How do I feel the Lord’s love in times of trial? Ashley shares some of her own story growing through “faith transformations” and principles to help others walking this beautiful road. She also talks about her love of and support for our LGBTQ friends including her cousin Matt Easton. She shared her experience visiting Matt before DC Pride and then finding herself in the Grand Marshall car with Matt and feeling the “most unconditional love (she) had ever experienced.” I was deeply moved listening to Ashley—her maturity, her service in our world, her new book, her ability to lift others, and her hope of the future of our Church and world. I encourage everyone to check out Ashley’s podcast and her new book.  Links: Ashely’s IG account @ashley.c.dyer Ashely’s new book:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462145795

My friend @ashley.c.dyer (active LDS RM, nurse, author, living in Boston) joins us to talk about her new book called “Women at the Well: Mini Devotionals for Women of Faith” that covers a range of important questions, like: - Am I truly enough just as I am? - Is there a way to make scripture study more fun? - How do I navigate a faith crisis? - What is grace? - Is it possible to share the gospel without feeling awkward? - How do I feel the Lord’s love in times of trial? Ashley shares some of her own story growing through “faith transformations” and principles to help others walking this beautiful road. She also talks about her love of and support for our LGBTQ friends including her cousin Matt Easton. She shared her experience visiting Matt before DC Pride and then finding herself in the Grand Marshall car with Matt and feeling the “most unconditional love (she) had ever experienced.” I was deeply moved listening to Ashley—her maturity, her service in our world, her new book, her ability to lift others, and her hope of the future of our Church and world. I encourage everyone to check out Ashley’s podcast and her new book. Links: Ashely’s IG account @ashley.c.dyer Ashely’s new book: <a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462145795" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462145795</a>

Episode 678: Ashley Dyer, LDS Author, LGBTQ Ally, Age 30

Brian Willoughby

My friend Dr. Brian Willoughby (PhD in Family Social Science from University of Minnesota, LDS Convert, Noted Researcher and BYU Professor) joins us to talk about understanding and solving porn use.   Dr. Willoughby (a frequent speaker on this subject) talks about what the research is teaching us about porn use and insights/principles to solve it.   This is a unique podcast on this subject because Dr. Willoughby brings understanding from his own research (and other research) to better understand this important subject and practical principles/insights to end porn use. If you are working to understand and solve your own porn use, please listen to this podcast.  It will help you.    And if you are a parent or local leader desiring better tools to help others, this podcast will help you.   I wish I had heard this podcast many years ago—before being a parent or before church assignments. Thank you, Dr. Willoughby, for your needed work in our community. Links:  Dr. Willoughby BYU Web Site:  https://familylife.byu.edu/directory/brian-willoughby Dr. Willoughby August 2023 Liahona Article:  https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2023/08/05-finding-hope-and-love-when-battling-pornography Richard Ostler chapter on Pornography (see chapter 4):  https://www.listenlearnandlove.org/improving-latter-day-saint-culture

My friend Dr. Brian Willoughby (PhD in Family Social Science from University of Minnesota, LDS Convert, Noted Researcher and BYU Professor) joins us to talk about understanding and solving porn use. Dr. Willoughby (a frequent speaker on this subject) talks about what the research is teaching us about porn use and insights/principles to solve it. This is a unique podcast on this subject because Dr. Willoughby brings understanding from his own research (and other research) to better understand this important subject and practical principles/insights to end porn use. If you are working to understand and solve your own porn use, please listen to this podcast. It will help you. And if you are a parent or local leader desiring better tools to help others, this podcast will help you. I wish I had heard this podcast many years ago—before being a parent or before church assignments. Thank you, Dr. Willoughby, for your needed work in our community. Links: Dr. Willoughby BYU Web Site: <a href="https://familylife.byu.edu/directory/brian-willoughby" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://familylife.byu.edu/directory/brian-willoughby</a> Dr. Willoughby August 2023 Liahona Article: <a href="https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2023/08/05-finding-hope-and-love-when-battling-pornography" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2023/08/05-finding-hope-and-love-when-battling-pornography</a> Richard Ostler chapter on Pornography (see chapter 4): <a href="https://www.listenlearnandlove.org/improving-latter-day-saint-culture" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.listenlearnandlove.org/improving-latter-day-saint-culture</a>

Episode 677: Dr. Brian Willoughby,  Professor BYU, Solving Porn Use

Shannon Sears

My friend Shannon Sears (age 51, out in 2022, father of three, lifelong church member with decades of church service, divorced, no longer active LDS) joins us to share his story.   Shannon hopes that sharing his story will “help younger queer people see themselves as God sees them.” Shannon talks about how he felt not only broken, but “irreparably broken” and how he “never really thought of himself as gay—just terribly flawed”.   Shannon shares 35 years of feeling this way (from being a young teen until the age of 50) and the immense and inescapable shame he felt for being gay (even though he was trying to be perfectly obedient).  Shannon talks about how the shame kept him from feeling joy and peace in his life and falsely believed that God couldn’t love him. Shannon talks about feeling suicidal and close to acting on that plan—but praying to God and asking how God felt about him and receiving a powerful answer “I love you.  I never intended to fix you.   You are not broken.  They may not want you, but you are Mine.”    Shannon talks about the peace and acceptance this brought him—and how the shame disappeared—giving Shannon hope for his future.  He talks about his continued desire to be a disciple of Christ, and how he feels he is better able to do that with his whole heart now. Shannon talks about coming out to his wife (he refers to her as the best woman he knows) and his children, and deciding to end his marriage.   Shannon acknowledges the pain for his wife and children and trying to do the best he can, continuing his love for, and relationship with them and moving forward with his own life.  He offers some thoughts on what helped him—and what didn't—from those around him during this difficult journey. This is a powerful episode to hear the story of Shannon—35 years in the closet navigating his sexual orientation—and all the things that were difficult in his journey—things that we no longer teach or say (hopefully) as when we “know better, we do better.”.    If you are LGBTQ this podcast will help you write your own story.   And for the rest it helps us better know how to love, understand and better support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.    Thank you, Shannon, for being on the podcast.  You are a good man.   Your story will help so many. Links: Shannon's coming out Facbook Post:  www.facebook.com/shannondsears/posts/pfbid036VYH2cXvhtV2LNQMubQZ4EvGDiEM5nGpN7E7Zm7s3QAGhEtC1rE5Q9bkxK44Qsh2lMinistering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Grouphttps://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book:  Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462135773 Index of Podcasts:  listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

My friend Shannon Sears (age 51, out in 2022, father of three, lifelong church member with decades of church service, divorced, no longer active LDS) joins us to share his story. Shannon hopes that sharing his story will “help younger queer people see themselves as God sees them.” Shannon talks about how he felt not only broken, but “irreparably broken” and how he “never really thought of himself as gay—just terribly flawed”. Shannon shares 35 years of feeling this way (from being a young teen until the age of 50) and the immense and inescapable shame he felt for being gay (even though he was trying to be perfectly obedient). Shannon talks about how the shame kept him from feeling joy and peace in his life and falsely believed that God couldn’t love him. Shannon talks about feeling suicidal and close to acting on that plan—but praying to God and asking how God felt about him and receiving a powerful answer “I love you. I never intended to fix you. You are not broken. They may not want you, but you are Mine.” Shannon talks about the peace and acceptance this brought him—and how the shame disappeared—giving Shannon hope for his future. He talks about his continued desire to be a disciple of Christ, and how he feels he is better able to do that with his whole heart now. Shannon talks about coming out to his wife (he refers to her as the best woman he knows) and his children, and deciding to end his marriage. Shannon acknowledges the pain for his wife and children and trying to do the best he can, continuing his love for, and relationship with them and moving forward with his own life. He offers some thoughts on what helped him—and what didn't—from those around him during this difficult journey. This is a powerful episode to hear the story of Shannon—35 years in the closet navigating his sexual orientation—and all the things that were difficult in his journey—things that we no longer teach or say (hopefully) as when we “know better, we do better.”. If you are LGBTQ this podcast will help you write your own story. And for the rest it helps us better know how to love, understand and better support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. Thank you, Shannon, for being on the podcast. You are a good man. Your story will help so many. Links: Shannon's coming out Facbook Post: <a href="http://www.facebook.com/shannondsears/posts/pfbid036VYH2cXvhtV2LNQMubQZ4EvGDiEM5nGpN7E7Zm7s3QAGhEtC1rE5Q9bkxK44Qsh2l" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/shannondsears/posts/pfbid036VYH2cXvhtV2LNQMubQZ4EvGDiEM5nGpN7E7Zm7s3QAGhEtC1rE5Q9bkxK44Qsh2l</a> Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143</a> Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: <a href="http://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback</a> Amazon: <a href="http://amazon.com/dp/1462135773" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">amazon.com/dp/1462135773</a> Index of Podcasts: <a href="http://listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts</a>

Episode 676: Shannon Sears, Gay, Age 51, Recently Out

Jessop Oliver

My friend Jessop Oliver (age 25, starting a Master’s Program at Duke, Active LDS, RM, plans to marry a man) joins us to share his story. Jessop talks about growing up in Davis County (oldest of three) in a solid and loving family. Jessop bravely shares how porn use started out of curiosity because of his same-sex attraction. Jessop talks about being “proud of overcoming porn but lost with his sexuality” during his high school years.   Jessop talks about how his “gay panic” led him to be a people pleaser, then later an overachiever, thinking he “couldn’t be rejected if I’m good at everything.” Jessop talks about his mission to Chile (great experience) and the spiritual foundation it gave him.  Jessop talks about starting at Utah State and realizing he still had same-sex attraction and bravely opening up to his YSA Bishop (great experience).   He talks about how this Bishop “loved me when I couldn’t love myself”. Jessop talks about dating women (short-lived relationships) and being faced with the reality of being gay and LDS.  He talks about coming out to family and friends and the positive support he is receiving.  Jessop talks about spiritual/positive experiences coming out, including a time when he was prompted to come out at a fireside. Jessop talks about why he started to date men, went back to date women, and then concluded that his path is going to be date men with the hopes of finding a husband with the same values/spiritual framework as him.   Jessop talks about moving to Duke and coming out as gay in his YSA Ward during testimony meeting (he is now in the EQ Presidency) and the support he is receiving and his gratitude for the chance to serve. Jessop also talks about the reality of his road—knowing he will not be able to fully participate in the Church but wanting to stay connected with the Church and have a strong relationship with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. He talks about the people God placed in his life, and having an eternal perspective. He also encourages people to take time to listen to the perspectives of the people around them.   Thank you, Jessop, for sharing your story.  You are so brave.   You have such a mature and solid foundation to chart the rest of your life.   Thank you for being on the podcast.   Your story helps others.Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Grouphttps://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143Richard Ostler Book:  Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperbackAmazon: amazon.com/dp/1462135773Index of Podcasts:  listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

My friend Jessop Oliver (age 25, starting a Master’s Program at Duke, Active LDS, RM, plans to marry a man) joins us to share his story. Jessop talks about growing up in Davis County (oldest of three) in a solid and loving family. Jessop bravely shares how porn use started out of curiosity because of his same-sex attraction. Jessop talks about being “proud of overcoming porn but lost with his sexuality” during his high school years. Jessop talks about how his “gay panic” led him to be a people pleaser, then later an overachiever, thinking he “couldn’t be rejected if I’m good at everything.” Jessop talks about his mission to Chile (great experience) and the spiritual foundation it gave him. Jessop talks about starting at Utah State and realizing he still had same-sex attraction and bravely opening up to his YSA Bishop (great experience). He talks about how this Bishop “loved me when I couldn’t love myself”. Jessop talks about dating women (short-lived relationships) and being faced with the reality of being gay and LDS. He talks about coming out to family and friends and the positive support he is receiving. Jessop talks about spiritual/positive experiences coming out, including a time when he was prompted to come out at a fireside. Jessop talks about why he started to date men, went back to date women, and then concluded that his path is going to be date men with the hopes of finding a husband with the same values/spiritual framework as him. Jessop talks about moving to Duke and coming out as gay in his YSA Ward during testimony meeting (he is now in the EQ Presidency) and the support he is receiving and his gratitude for the chance to serve. Jessop also talks about the reality of his road—knowing he will not be able to fully participate in the Church but wanting to stay connected with the Church and have a strong relationship with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. He talks about the people God placed in his life, and having an eternal perspective. He also encourages people to take time to listen to the perspectives of the people around them. Thank you, Jessop, for sharing your story. You are so brave. You have such a mature and solid foundation to chart the rest of your life. Thank you for being on the podcast. Your story helps others. Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143</a> Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: <a href="http://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback</a> Amazon: <a href="http://amazon.com/dp/1462135773" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">amazon.com/dp/1462135773</a> Index of Podcasts: <a href="http://listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts</a>

Episode 675: Jessop Oliver, Gay Latter-day Saint

Gregory Layton

My long-time friend Gregory Layton (RM, Former Student Body President at Dixie State University, MBA University of Utah, early 30s, single, active LDS) joins us to share his journey with crippling anxiety and scrupulosity.  Gregory shares how “for the last five years of my life, I lived in a mental torture prison called scrupulosity”.    Gregory talks about how this is a mental health issue and not a spiritual weakness and needs to be solved experts in this area and the right kind of therapy.   Gregory talks about how he turned to increased religious behaviors (6-10 hour per day in the temple, listening to multiple conference talks, etc) is his determination to end his intrusive thoughts and feelings of not being square with God.    All this with a pure and humble desire to hear the Holy Ghost so he could make the right decisions in his life—but all of this only adding to his anxiety and scrupulosity—causing Gregory to feel worse and suicidal at times. Gregory talks about only when he framed this as a mental illness, did he get the help he needed.   Gregory talks about how he is such a better and more sustainable place—and able to live with uncertainly—and also peace that the core of Gregory is good, and God will continue to guide him. This is a powerful and brave podcast for someone I deeply admire and respect.   Hearing his story only increases my love, admiration, and respect for Gregory.   If you are working to see, understand, and/or solve scrupulosity, Gregory’s story will help you.   And if you have a loved one on this road, Gregory’s story will give you insights on how to better help them. Thank you, Gregory, for being on the podcast.   You are a good man with a bright future. Links: Dr. Debra McClendon:  https://debramcclendon.com/ Podcast on Scrupulosity:  https://listenlearnandlove.org/depression-mental-illness-podcasts  (see 575, 557, 542, 493, 360, 336, 258, 240, 204, 199, 191) Richard Ostler Chapter (from Listen, Learn and Love:  Improving Latter-day Saint Culture) on Scrupulosity:  www.dropbox.com/s/i314vw5im0khzia/Chapter%207%20Overcoming%20Scrupulosity%20%28Religious%20ODC%29.pdf?dl=0

My long-time friend Gregory Layton (RM, Former Student Body President at Dixie State University, MBA University of Utah, early 30s, single, active LDS) joins us to share his journey with crippling anxiety and scrupulosity. Gregory shares how “for the last five years of my life, I lived in a mental torture prison called scrupulosity”. Gregory talks about how this is a mental health issue and not a spiritual weakness and needs to be solved experts in this area and the right kind of therapy. Gregory talks about how he turned to increased religious behaviors (6-10 hour per day in the temple, listening to multiple conference talks, etc) is his determination to end his intrusive thoughts and feelings of not being square with God. All this with a pure and humble desire to hear the Holy Ghost so he could make the right decisions in his life—but all of this only adding to his anxiety and scrupulosity—causing Gregory to feel worse and suicidal at times. Gregory talks about only when he framed this as a mental illness, did he get the help he needed. Gregory talks about how he is such a better and more sustainable place—and able to live with uncertainly—and also peace that the core of Gregory is good, and God will continue to guide him. This is a powerful and brave podcast for someone I deeply admire and respect. Hearing his story only increases my love, admiration, and respect for Gregory. If you are working to see, understand, and/or solve scrupulosity, Gregory’s story will help you. And if you have a loved one on this road, Gregory’s story will give you insights on how to better help them. Thank you, Gregory, for being on the podcast. You are a good man with a bright future. Links: Dr. Debra McClendon: <a href="https://debramcclendon.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://debramcclendon.com/</a> Podcast on Scrupulosity: <a href="https://listenlearnandlove.org/depression-mental-illness-podcasts" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://listenlearnandlove.org/depression-mental-illness-podcasts</a> (see 575, 557, 542, 493, 360, 336, 258, 240, 204, 199, 191) Richard Ostler Chapter (from Listen, Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture) on Scrupulosity: <a href="http://www.dropbox.com/s/i314vw5im0khzia/Chapter%207%20Overcoming%20Scrupulosity%20%28Religious%20ODC%29.pdf?dl=0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.dropbox.com/s/i314vw5im0khzia/Chapter%207%20Overcoming%20Scrupulosity%20%28Religious%20ODC%29.pdf?dl=0</a>

Episode 674: Gregory Layton, Scrupulosity

Landon Phillips

James Phillips

My friend Landon Phillips and his parents Monica and James Phillips join us to update listeners on Landon’s journey (check out Episode 230 for their earlier podcast).    Landon talks about getting, as a Christmas gift from his parents, a full genome sequencing kit.   Landon, who was assigned female at birth but who transitioned over 5 years ago, got his results in June and learned that he is genetically male with XY chromosomes.  The family discusses the impact of receiving these DNA results.   Landon doesn’t want his story to invalidate the stories of transgender men who don’t have XY chromosomes.   Landon—so thoughtfully—writes about this in his Facebook post (see show notes). Monica and James share their experience parenting a transgender child—principles that are super helpful for any parent.   Monica and James talk about their North Star presentation and the things they are sharing with both parents and local leaders to better support transgender Latter-day Saints. This is a super powerful podcast.   The Phillips family are trailblazers in this space and their story helps all of us better see, understand, love and support our transgender friends. ,Thank you Landon, Monica, and James for being on the podcast and your great work in our community! Links: Landon’s DNA Facebook post:  www.facebook.com/landon.phillips.3386585/posts/pfbid02CC17be7CS6cHgzbLFr1bejAtGogrECZH415gLzWjS7BhdGCSEJvdj8zKfDzz6cm8l Gender Curious podcast (hosted by Landon and Michael Soto):  podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gender-curious/id1676327715 Dave and Kimi Martin Podcast:  podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-631-dave-and-kimi-martin-transgender-son-levi/id1347971725?i=1000607948078 Dr Julia Bernards Podcast:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-664-dr-julia-bernards-byu-dissertation-on-transgender/id1347971725?i=1000619444998 LDS Church’s transgender page:  https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgender?lang=eng North Star International Conference Index https://www.northstarsaints.org/conference-keynote-index (this link will be updated as 2023 conference sessions become available for purchase.)

My friend Landon Phillips and his parents Monica and James Phillips join us to update listeners on Landon’s journey (check out Episode 230 for their earlier podcast). Landon talks about getting, as a Christmas gift from his parents, a full genome sequencing kit. Landon, who was assigned female at birth but who transitioned over 5 years ago, got his results in June and learned that he is genetically male with XY chromosomes. The family discusses the impact of receiving these DNA results. Landon doesn’t want his story to invalidate the stories of transgender men who don’t have XY chromosomes. Landon—so thoughtfully—writes about this in his Facebook post (see show notes). Monica and James share their experience parenting a transgender child—principles that are super helpful for any parent. Monica and James talk about their North Star presentation and the things they are sharing with both parents and local leaders to better support transgender Latter-day Saints. This is a super powerful podcast. The Phillips family are trailblazers in this space and their story helps all of us better see, understand, love and support our transgender friends. ,Thank you Landon, Monica, and James for being on the podcast and your great work in our community! Links: Landon’s DNA Facebook post: <a href="http://www.facebook.com/landon.phillips.3386585/posts/pfbid02CC17be7CS6cHgzbLFr1bejAtGogrECZH415gLzWjS7BhdGCSEJvdj8zKfDzz6cm8l" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/landon.phillips.3386585/posts/pfbid02CC17be7CS6cHgzbLFr1bejAtGogrECZH415gLzWjS7BhdGCSEJvdj8zKfDzz6cm8l</a> Gender Curious podcast (hosted by Landon and Michael Soto): <a href="http://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gender-curious/id1676327715" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gender-curious/id1676327715</a> Dave and Kimi Martin Podcast: <a href="http://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-631-dave-and-kimi-martin-transgender-son-levi/id1347971725?i=1000607948078" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-631-dave-and-kimi-martin-transgender-son-levi/id1347971725?i=1000607948078</a> Dr Julia Bernards Podcast: <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-664-dr-julia-bernards-byu-dissertation-on-transgender/id1347971725?i=1000619444998" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-664-dr-julia-bernards-byu-dissertation-on-transgender/id1347971725?i=1000619444998</a> LDS Church’s transgender page: <a href="https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgender?lang=eng" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgender?lang=eng</a> North Star International Conference Index <a href="https://www.northstarsaints.org/conference-keynote-index" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.northstarsaints.org/conference-keynote-index</a> (this link will be updated as 2023 conference sessions become available for purchase.)

Episode 673:  Landon Phillips (Transgender) and his Parents (Monica and James Phillips)

Welcome to our podcast!   My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren.  I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group.I am the author of "Listen Learn and Love:  Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints" at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773) and Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints)I am also the author of "Listen, Learn and Love:  Improving Latter-day Saint Culture" at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566) and Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love)The purpose of both books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations.  I am the author of two Ensign articles:‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use.   Expanded thoughts on these articles are in my second book about Improving Latter-day Saint Culture.This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children.Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcastsThank you for joining us.   You can't donate to this podcast.  There are no sponsors.   But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books.With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤Twitter: @Papa_OstlerIG: @papa_ostlerFacebook:  facebook.com/richard.ostler.5E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com

My friend Laurel Greathouse (RM, same-gender attraction, early 30s) joins us to share her story.   Laurel talks about her decision to serve a mission (San Diego, California) and coming home twice for health reasons.  She shares what was helpful and not helpful as an early release missionary. Laurel then talks about leaving the Church and dating women for about 4 years.   She then talks about spiritual impressions and people showing pure love that led her to reconnect with God, her true hopes and the Church.  It is a remarkable story. If you are wondering if there is a way back for you—or if you are wondering about better insights to help a friend or family member—Laurel’s story will help you. Thank you for being on the podcast Laurel.   You are very brave and courageous to share your story.   You story will help so many! Links: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Groupfacebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book:  Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462135773Index of Podcasts:  listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

My friend Laurel Greathouse (RM, same-gender attraction, early 30s) joins us to share her story. Laurel talks about her decision to serve a mission (San Diego, California) and coming home twice for health reasons. She shares what was helpful and not helpful as an early release missionary. Laurel then talks about leaving the Church and dating women for about 4 years. She then talks about spiritual impressions and people showing pure love that led her to reconnect with God, her true hopes and the Church. It is a remarkable story. If you are wondering if there is a way back for you—or if you are wondering about better insights to help a friend or family member—Laurel’s story will help you. Thank you for being on the podcast Laurel. You are very brave and courageous to share your story. You story will help so many! Links: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group <a href="http://facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143</a> Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: <a href="http://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback</a> Amazon: <a href="http://amazon.com/dp/1462135773" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">amazon.com/dp/1462135773</a> Index of Podcasts: <a href="http://listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts</a>

Episode 672: Laurel Greathouse, Left Church, Returned

Richelle begins by sharing some of the observations of her childhood and how these no doubt trying experiences helped to shape her life and strengthen her personal testimony as well as develop a strong relationship with the Savior—her experience and her journey have helped her to just “trust in the Lord” seek to find joy in your life and accept that all will be made right in the end. Richelle shares how she came to know that her long held feelings needed not be a source of shame and that embracing her gender dysphoria only fully surfaced after the unraveling of her marriage of 25 years. She talks about the peace and joy she feels being honest about her gender identity and helps us better understand how to support her and others on their unique path. She talks about attending her local ward and regaining trust with her priesthood leaders as everyone tries to do their best to love and support her—including some very positive experiences with her relief society sisters.Richelle talks about how some voices in society today seek to brand trans people as sexual perverts out to target their children. With deep emotion, Richelle talks about how painful that is to hear as in her sincere desire to embrace womanhood she only wants to nurture and defend children. We conclude with reading from the Church’s web page about loving and supporting transgender Latter-day Saints—and emphasize how the Church’s web site contains none of the politically charged statements otherwise being shouted out in the public arena. Richelle encourages us to remember the second greatest commandment and to be willing to get to know the individual just as the Savior knows us individually.Thank you, Richelle, for your courage to be on the podcast and share your story. You are a wonderful woman with a great life ahead of you!   Links:Church's webpage on supporting transgender members: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgender Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcastsMinistering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Groupfacebook.com/groups/1433556613672143Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773

Richelle begins by sharing some of the observations of her childhood and how these no doubt trying experiences helped to shape her life and strengthen her personal testimony as well as develop a strong relationship with the Savior—her experience and her journey have helped her to just “trust in the Lord” seek to find joy in your life and accept that all will be made right in the end. Richelle shares how she came to know that her long held feelings needed not be a source of shame and that embracing her gender dysphoria only fully surfaced after the unraveling of her marriage of 25 years. She talks about the peace and joy she feels being honest about her gender identity and helps us better understand how to support her and others on their unique path. She talks about attending her local ward and regaining trust with her priesthood leaders as everyone tries to do their best to love and support her—including some very positive experiences with her relief society sisters. Richelle talks about how some voices in society today seek to brand trans people as sexual perverts out to target their children. With deep emotion, Richelle talks about how painful that is to hear as in her sincere desire to embrace womanhood she only wants to nurture and defend children. We conclude with reading from the Church’s web page about loving and supporting transgender Latter-day Saints—and emphasize how the Church’s web site contains none of the politically charged statements otherwise being shouted out in the public arena. Richelle encourages us to remember the second greatest commandment and to be willing to get to know the individual just as the Savior knows us individually. Thank you, Richelle, for your courage to be on the podcast and share your story. You are a wonderful woman with a great life ahead of you! Links: Church's webpage on supporting transgender members: <a href="http://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgender" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgender</a> Index of Podcasts: <a href="http://listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts</a> Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group <a href="http://facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143</a> Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: <a href="http://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints</a> Amazon: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773</a>

Episode 671: Richelle, Transgender LDS shares her story as a faithful LDS and a transgender woman.

Chelom Leavitt

My friend Dr. Chelom Leavitt (JD from BYU Law School; Masters in Marriage, Family and Human Development BYU;  PhD in Human Development and Family Studies Penn State) joins us to talk about research in sexual function, sexual mindfulness and the connection between sex and relationship well-being.   Dr Leavitt—who teaches on this subject in the BYU School of Family Life and is a married mother of nine—talks about the research and this subject and how to teach it to improve sexual mindfullness in marriage—resulting in stronger marriages.   She also talks about how it is Satan (not our Heavenly Father) that introduces shame into this subject and how/why talking about it is important in our marriages and talking about sex with our children. I learned so much listening to Dr. Leavitt—principles and insights I wish I had heard earlier in my life which would have given me better tools as a husband, father, and in my YSA service.   Dr. Leavitt is doing groundbreaking work in our community and beyond and I encourage everyone to check out her podcast and her work.    Thank you, Dr. Leavitt, for being on the podcast and your needed work. Links: Bio:  chelomleavitt.com/ Podcast:  chelomleavitt.com/podcasts/ BYU Page:  fhssfaculty.byu.edu/directory/chelom-leavitt Sexual Wholeness in Marriage:  amazon.com//dp/B00IIE0UR8/ A Better Way to Teach Your Kids about Sex:  amazon.com/dp/B07FT7BNRV Psychology Today Page:  psychologytoday.com/us/contributors/chelom-e-leavitt-jd-phd

My friend Dr. Chelom Leavitt (JD from BYU Law School; Masters in Marriage, Family and Human Development BYU; PhD in Human Development and Family Studies Penn State) joins us to talk about research in sexual function, sexual mindfulness and the connection between sex and relationship well-being. Dr Leavitt—who teaches on this subject in the BYU School of Family Life and is a married mother of nine—talks about the research and this subject and how to teach it to improve sexual mindfullness in marriage—resulting in stronger marriages. She also talks about how it is Satan (not our Heavenly Father) that introduces shame into this subject and how/why talking about it is important in our marriages and talking about sex with our children. I learned so much listening to Dr. Leavitt—principles and insights I wish I had heard earlier in my life which would have given me better tools as a husband, father, and in my YSA service. Dr. Leavitt is doing groundbreaking work in our community and beyond and I encourage everyone to check out her podcast and her work. Thank you, Dr. Leavitt, for being on the podcast and your needed work. Links: Bio: <a href="http://chelomleavitt.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">chelomleavitt.com/</a> Podcast: <a href="http://chelomleavitt.com/podcasts/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">chelomleavitt.com/podcasts/</a> BYU Page: <a href="http://fhssfaculty.byu.edu/directory/chelom-leavitt" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fhssfaculty.byu.edu/directory/chelom-leavitt</a> Sexual Wholeness in Marriage: <a href="http://amazon.com//dp/B00IIE0UR8/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">amazon.com//dp/B00IIE0UR8/</a> A Better Way to Teach Your Kids about Sex: <a href="http://amazon.com/dp/B07FT7BNRV" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">amazon.com/dp/B07FT7BNRV</a> Psychology Today Page: <a href="http://psychologytoday.com/us/contributors/chelom-e-leavitt-jd-phd" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">psychologytoday.com/us/contributors/chelom-e-leavitt-jd-phd</a>

Episode 670: Dr. Chelom Leavitt, Associate Professor at BYU, Sexual Mindfulness

Andrew D. White

My friend Andrew White (age 29, finishing up dental school, living in the Kansas City area) starts with knowing he was attracted to the same gender around age 5 and recognizing he was gay around 15.  Andrew talks about the events that led him to join the Church at age 15 (including a powerful dream) and then doing everything to ‘become straight’ including being active in the Church (becoming an Elder, going to BYU, temple endowment, and serving a mission)—all with the hope of “rewarded with being straight” and also wanting to help others feel the love of God and our Savior. Andrew then talks about the super difficult and painful church experiences on his mission and then at BYU which causes so much pain/trauma that Andrew felt his only path to healing was to resign from the Church in 2016.   The things Andrew experienced on his mission and BYU are heartbreaking—church generated trauma is real for some members of our Church and something I’ve learned to validate even if I haven’t experienced it directly.  Andrew then talks about his life out of the Church (very good experience) and then his spiritual promptings to return to the Church which happened with his rebaptism on June 10, 2023 by his lifelong friend Michael.   Andrew bears a strong testimony of God’s love for all of His children and the need for inclusion and diversity as we create Zion. This is one of the most powerful podcasts we’ve done.   I learned so much from Andrew about hope, healing, grace, and forgiveness.   I’m grateful to so many in Andrew’s circle (friends, father and stepmom, allies, local church leaders and general authorities) who love and support Andrew—and see his great heart and needed contributions to build Zion.      Andrew talks about a healing visit to the BYU Honor Code office and how that positive experience helped “over-write the trauma.”.   Andrew concludes how he has gone from wanting to be “rewarded with being straight” to the “blessing of being gay.” Thank you, Andew, for being on the podcast.   You are so brave.   Honored to have you on the podcast.   Your story will help so many.   You have a great life ahead of you!Links:Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Groupwww.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book:  Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773Index of Podcasts:  listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

My friend Andrew White (age 29, finishing up dental school, living in the Kansas City area) starts with knowing he was attracted to the same gender around age 5 and recognizing he was gay around 15. Andrew talks about the events that led him to join the Church at age 15 (including a powerful dream) and then doing everything to ‘become straight’ including being active in the Church (becoming an Elder, going to BYU, temple endowment, and serving a mission)—all with the hope of “rewarded with being straight” and also wanting to help others feel the love of God and our Savior. Andrew then talks about the super difficult and painful church experiences on his mission and then at BYU which causes so much pain/trauma that Andrew felt his only path to healing was to resign from the Church in 2016. The things Andrew experienced on his mission and BYU are heartbreaking—church generated trauma is real for some members of our Church and something I’ve learned to validate even if I haven’t experienced it directly. Andrew then talks about his life out of the Church (very good experience) and then his spiritual promptings to return to the Church which happened with his rebaptism on June 10, 2023 by his lifelong friend Michael. Andrew bears a strong testimony of God’s love for all of His children and the need for inclusion and diversity as we create Zion. This is one of the most powerful podcasts we’ve done. I learned so much from Andrew about hope, healing, grace, and forgiveness. I’m grateful to so many in Andrew’s circle (friends, father and stepmom, allies, local church leaders and general authorities) who love and support Andrew—and see his great heart and needed contributions to build Zion. Andrew talks about a healing visit to the BYU Honor Code office and how that positive experience helped “over-write the trauma.”. Andrew concludes how he has gone from wanting to be “rewarded with being straight” to the “blessing of being gay.” Thank you, Andew, for being on the podcast. You are so brave. Honored to have you on the podcast. Your story will help so many. You have a great life ahead of you! Links: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group <a href="http://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143</a> Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: <a href="http://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints</a> Amazon: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773</a> Index of Podcasts: <a href="http://listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts</a>

Episode 669: Andrew D. White, Gay Latter-day Saint, Convert, Left Church, Rebaptized

My friend Nigel Bull (who joined the Church at age 16, left, rebaptized at age 40, currently not active) joins us to share some of his story (complicated at times) as a gay Latter-day Saint. Nigel takes us back to like what it was to be gay in the '80's in the Church. Some of his story is painful to hear--but it helps us understand the realities of the road Nigel was walking. Nigel also shares his health challenges which led to being in a wheel chair starting in his late '20s and also being HIV positive and the unknows about that illness in the '80s. Nigel, who was suicidal at times, gives advice for others who are thinking of suicide to reach out (in the United States call/text/chat 988) and also "love yourself and believe in yourself." Nigel is one of my heroes for his courage to do his best to navigate being a Latter-day Saint and gay during a time with less understanding and support. You are a good man Nigel. I'm glad you are alive and all the people you have helped along the way. Glad to have you on the podcast!Links: Index of Podcasts:  listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Groupwww.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book:  Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773

My friend Nigel Bull (who joined the Church at age 16, left, rebaptized at age 40, currently not active) joins us to share some of his story (complicated at times) as a gay Latter-day Saint. Nigel takes us back to like what it was to be gay in the '80's in the Church. Some of his story is painful to hear--but it helps us understand the realities of the road Nigel was walking. Nigel also shares his health challenges which led to being in a wheel chair starting in his late '20s and also being HIV positive and the unknows about that illness in the '80s. Nigel, who was suicidal at times, gives advice for others who are thinking of suicide to reach out (in the United States call/text/chat 988) and also "love yourself and believe in yourself." Nigel is one of my heroes for his courage to do his best to navigate being a Latter-day Saint and gay during a time with less understanding and support. You are a good man Nigel. I'm glad you are alive and all the people you have helped along the way. Glad to have you on the podcast! Links: Index of Podcasts: <a href="http://listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts</a> Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group <a href="http://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143</a> Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: <a href="http://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints</a> Amazon: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773</a>

Episode 668: Nigel Bull, Gay, Age 62, Lives in London

Bekki Hood

Emily Cushing

My friends Bekki Hood and Emily Cushing joins us to talk about their new book (published by Deseret Book in May 2023) about 23 remarkable Latter-day Saint women called “She Did:  Ordinary Women, Extraordinary Faith.” Bekki and Emily share some of their own stories (education, careers) and the reasons for writing this book—which highlights the stories of 23 women.  Most of these women are largely unknown to a broad Latter-say Saint audience—but typify the faithfulness of millions of Latter-day Saint women.   Hearing their stories helps us develop courage and faith—and better vision to write our own stories.   A few of the woman may be familiar to readers such as Aurelia Spencer Rogers (founded the Primary program);  Irene Corbett (died on the Titanic, and subject of Elder Cook’s “The Songs They Could Not Sign 2011 Conference Talk); and Chieko Okazaki (former Relief Society General Presidency).   The book shares more about these remarkable women including interviews with surviving family members. I encourage everyone (men and women) to read this book and share it with others.   It helps give vision—especially to younger Latter-day Saints—on ways to serve and bless others. Thank you, Bekki and Emily, for being on the podcast and writing this book.    Links: Amazon:  www.amazon.com/dp/1639931325 Deseret Book:  deseretbook.com/p/she-did?variant_id=201624-paperback Instagram Account:  @shedidbook Elder Cook’s Talk:  site.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2011/10/the-songs-they-could-not-sing?lang=eng

My friends Bekki Hood and Emily Cushing joins us to talk about their new book (published by Deseret Book in May 2023) about 23 remarkable Latter-day Saint women called “She Did: Ordinary Women, Extraordinary Faith.” Bekki and Emily share some of their own stories (education, careers) and the reasons for writing this book—which highlights the stories of 23 women. Most of these women are largely unknown to a broad Latter-say Saint audience—but typify the faithfulness of millions of Latter-day Saint women. Hearing their stories helps us develop courage and faith—and better vision to write our own stories. A few of the woman may be familiar to readers such as Aurelia Spencer Rogers (founded the Primary program); Irene Corbett (died on the Titanic, and subject of Elder Cook’s “The Songs They Could Not Sign 2011 Conference Talk); and Chieko Okazaki (former Relief Society General Presidency). The book shares more about these remarkable women including interviews with surviving family members. I encourage everyone (men and women) to read this book and share it with others. It helps give vision—especially to younger Latter-day Saints—on ways to serve and bless others. Thank you, Bekki and Emily, for being on the podcast and writing this book. Links: Amazon: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/1639931325" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.amazon.com/dp/1639931325</a> Deseret Book: <a href="http://deseretbook.com/p/she-did?variant_id=201624-paperback" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">deseretbook.com/p/she-did?variant_id=201624-paperback</a> Instagram Account: @shedidbook Elder Cook’s Talk: <a href="http://site.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2011/10/the-songs-they-could-not-sing?lang=eng" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">site.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2011/10/the-songs-they-could-not-sing?lang=eng</a>

Episode 667: Bekki Hood and Emily Cushing New Book:  “She Did:  Ordinary Women, Extraordinary Faith”

My friend Dan McClellan (married father of three, active LDS, @maklelan) joins us to share his story how his long academic road (two masters and a PhD) has opened unexpected doors for him to bring his biblical expertise and pastoral heart to bless others. Dan talks about how scripture should not be weaponized and how good scholarship helps us reduce vitriol and bring us together. Dan shares how he started a TikTok account in 2021 and how his work has grown to a major social presence on all platforms. Dan talks about how we should also use scripture teachings to help the marginalized and how they do not support identity politics. I was deeply moved listening to Dan and his fact based/scriptural approach to help us to better. Thank you, Dan, for being on the podcast and for your needed voice in our community and beyond. Links: TikTok:  www.tiktok.com/@maklelan Instagram:  @maklelan Twitter:  @maklelan Facebook:  www.facebook.com/daniel.o.mcclellan YouTube:  www.youtube.com/@maklelan Podcast (Data over Dogma):  podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/data-over-dogma/id1681418502 Dan McClellan bio:  danielomcclellan.wordpress.com/about/

My friend Dan McClellan (married father of three, active LDS, @maklelan) joins us to share his story how his long academic road (two masters and a PhD) has opened unexpected doors for him to bring his biblical expertise and pastoral heart to bless others. Dan talks about how scripture should not be weaponized and how good scholarship helps us reduce vitriol and bring us together. Dan shares how he started a TikTok account in 2021 and how his work has grown to a major social presence on all platforms. Dan talks about how we should also use scripture teachings to help the marginalized and how they do not support identity politics. I was deeply moved listening to Dan and his fact based/scriptural approach to help us to better. Thank you, Dan, for being on the podcast and for your needed voice in our community and beyond. Links: TikTok: <a href="http://www.tiktok.com/@maklelan" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.tiktok.com/@maklelan</a> Instagram: @maklelan Twitter: @maklelan Facebook: <a href="http://www.facebook.com/daniel.o.mcclellan" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/daniel.o.mcclellan</a> YouTube: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/@maklelan" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.youtube.com/@maklelan</a> Podcast (Data over Dogma): <a href="http://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/data-over-dogma/id1681418502" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/data-over-dogma/id1681418502</a> Dan McClellan bio: <a href="http://danielomcclellan.wordpress.com/about/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">danielomcclellan.wordpress.com/about/</a>

Episode 665: Dr. Dan McClellan,  Biblical Scholar,  Data over Dogma

Julia Bernards

My friend Dr. Julia Bernards (LDS married mother of 4, PhD from BYU, LMFT) joins us to talk about her 2022 BYU Dissertation called “This Whole Journey was Sacred: Latter-day Saint Parents’ Process in Coming to Accept a Transgender Child.”  In her groundbreaking dissertation Julia shares the key findings of the research as well as a brief history of gender diversity, key terms to understand, perspectives on identity, grief and resiliency, and her research methodology (analyzing data from over a hundred LDS parents with a transgender child). She includes lots of quotes from parents as well as recommendations for clinicians.  Julia's findings focus on the facets and stages of the family journey to love, accept and support a transgender child leading to peace and a strong family relationship. It is a journey that is not linear; it is unique to each family—but Julia frames this up in a way that provides hope, perspective, and principles to navigate this road. This is not just research for Julia as Julia and her husband Sam are parents of a transgender daughter, Emma. They bring their story as parents—combined with the research—to provide valuable insights. I was deeply moved listening to Julia.   If you are a parent, local leader, or interested Latter-day Saint, I encourage you to listen to this podcast.  It will help you understand and better support transgender Latter-day Saints.  And if you are transgender, I believe this podcast will help you in our journey.   Thank you, Julia, for your life-saving work in our community. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: Dr. Julia Bernard’s Dissertation:  https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=10818&amp;context=etd Transgender Podcasts at Listen Learn and Love (includes Episode 631 from Dave and Kimi Martin):  https://listenlearnandlove.org/transgender-and-more-podcastsMinistering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Groupwww.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book:  Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773

My friend Dr. Julia Bernards (LDS married mother of 4, PhD from BYU, LMFT) joins us to talk about her 2022 BYU Dissertation called “This Whole Journey was Sacred: Latter-day Saint Parents’ Process in Coming to Accept a Transgender Child.” In her groundbreaking dissertation Julia shares the key findings of the research as well as a brief history of gender diversity, key terms to understand, perspectives on identity, grief and resiliency, and her research methodology (analyzing data from over a hundred LDS parents with a transgender child). She includes lots of quotes from parents as well as recommendations for clinicians. Julia's findings focus on the facets and stages of the family journey to love, accept and support a transgender child leading to peace and a strong family relationship. It is a journey that is not linear; it is unique to each family—but Julia frames this up in a way that provides hope, perspective, and principles to navigate this road. This is not just research for Julia as Julia and her husband Sam are parents of a transgender daughter, Emma. They bring their story as parents—combined with the research—to provide valuable insights. I was deeply moved listening to Julia. If you are a parent, local leader, or interested Latter-day Saint, I encourage you to listen to this podcast. It will help you understand and better support transgender Latter-day Saints. And if you are transgender, I believe this podcast will help you in our journey. Thank you, Julia, for your life-saving work in our community. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: Dr. Julia Bernard’s Dissertation: <a href="https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=10818&amp;context=etd" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=10818&amp;context=etd</a> Transgender Podcasts at Listen Learn and Love (includes Episode 631 from Dave and Kimi Martin): <a href="https://listenlearnandlove.org/transgender-and-more-podcasts" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://listenlearnandlove.org/transgender-and-more-podcasts</a> Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group <a href="http://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143</a> Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: <a href="http://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints</a> Amazon: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773</a>

Episode 664: Dr. Julia Bernards, BYU Dissertation on Transgender Latter-day Saints Families

Marci McPhee

Fatimah Salleh

Steve Young

My friend Marci McPhee (active LDS, now single, mother of six, grandmother of sixteen, writer &amp; editor) joins us to talk about life lessons learned since joining the Church at age 16, being single after two temple marriages (with a cancellation of sealing between), raising a stepfamily in a duplex, her career in higher education, and now editor to folks like Steve Young, Fatimah Salleh, David Ostler, &amp; two of my three books. Marci is dear personal friend, remarkable person, and gifted editor.  Her personal story is powerful.  It is one of the finest examples of “write your own story with Christ.”   I encourage everyone to listen to Marci’s podcast—it will help you find peace, hope, and perspective in your life. You can connect with Marci at marcimcpheewriter.com

My friend Marci McPhee (active LDS, now single, mother of six, grandmother of sixteen, writer &amp; editor) joins us to talk about life lessons learned since joining the Church at age 16, being single after two temple marriages (with a cancellation of sealing between), raising a stepfamily in a duplex, her career in higher education, and now editor to folks like Steve Young, Fatimah Salleh, David Ostler, &amp; two of my three books. Marci is dear personal friend, remarkable person, and gifted editor. Her personal story is powerful. It is one of the finest examples of “write your own story with Christ.” I encourage everyone to listen to Marci’s podcast—it will help you find peace, hope, and perspective in your life. You can connect with Marci at <a href="http://marcimcpheewriter.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">marcimcpheewriter.com</a>

Episode 663: Marci McPhee, Active Divorced LDS, editor to Steve Young, Ostlers, Fatimah Salleh

My friend Ashly Stone (married mother of two) joins us to share her remarkable journey of battling additions (which included heroin and jail time) and her journey to recovery.   It is a remarkable story of courage, faith and “surrendering”.   A key part of Ashly’s recover was her path to reconnect with the Church and access the healing power and hope of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.   Ashly shares powerful concepts like “I decided to create the person I wanted to be”, and “let your past empower you”.    Ashly’s personal story is powerful and give others hope that they can pull out of very difficult and sometimes near hopeless situations.   For more on Ashly’s story, check out the first episode on her podcast and also her episode on the All-In podcast. Ashly then talks about the podcast she hosts and founded called “Come Back Podcast” which is stories of people who have returned to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (we production help from her friend Lauren Rose).   This remarkable podcast, which is gaining significant traction in our community, has powerful and vulnerable stories of people who have returned.   Thank you, Ashly, for being on the podcast and sharing your story.   You and your husband Jesse are doing much good in our community.   I encourage everyone to hear your story and connect with your podcast. Links: Come Back Podcast:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/come-back-podcast/id1641798510 Ashly Stone e-mail:  ashly.comebackpodcast@gmail.com Ashly’s episode on All-In Podcast:  https://www.ldsliving.com/all-in/ashly-stone-the-power-of-the-comeback

My friend Ashly Stone (married mother of two) joins us to share her remarkable journey of battling additions (which included heroin and jail time) and her journey to recovery. It is a remarkable story of courage, faith and “surrendering”. A key part of Ashly’s recover was her path to reconnect with the Church and access the healing power and hope of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Ashly shares powerful concepts like “I decided to create the person I wanted to be”, and “let your past empower you”. Ashly’s personal story is powerful and give others hope that they can pull out of very difficult and sometimes near hopeless situations. For more on Ashly’s story, check out the first episode on her podcast and also her episode on the All-In podcast. Ashly then talks about the podcast she hosts and founded called “Come Back Podcast” which is stories of people who have returned to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (we production help from her friend Lauren Rose). This remarkable podcast, which is gaining significant traction in our community, has powerful and vulnerable stories of people who have returned. Thank you, Ashly, for being on the podcast and sharing your story. You and your husband Jesse are doing much good in our community. I encourage everyone to hear your story and connect with your podcast. Links: Come Back Podcast: <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/come-back-podcast/id1641798510" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/come-back-podcast/id1641798510</a> Ashly Stone e-mail: ashly.comebackpodcast@gmail.com Ashly’s episode on All-In Podcast: <a href="https://www.ldsliving.com/all-in/ashly-stone-the-power-of-the-comeback" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.ldsliving.com/all-in/ashly-stone-the-power-of-the-comeback</a>

Episode 662: Ashly Stone, Solved Drug Addictions, Host of “Come Back Podcast”

Love both the sincerity of the podcast and variety of guests

Love the variety of guests

He so beautifully follows the example of Jesus❤️

Changing attitudes with love

Welcome to our podcast! My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group. I am the author of "Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints" at Amazon (<a href="http://amazon.com/dp/1462135773" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">amazon.com/dp/1462135773</a>) and Deseret Book (<a href="http://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints</a>) I am also the author of "Listen, Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture" at Amazon (<a href="http://amazon.com/dp/1462139566" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">amazon.com/dp/1462139566</a>) and Deseret Book (<a href="http://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love</a>) The purpose of both books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations. I am the author of two Ensign articles: ‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) <a href="http://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin</a> ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) <a href="http://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use</a>. Expanded thoughts on these articles are in my second book about Improving Latter-day Saint Culture. This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children. Podcasts are indexed by category at <a href="http://listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts</a> Thank you for joining us. You can't donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books. With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤ Twitter: @Papa_Ostler IG: @papa_ostler Facebook: <a href="http://facebook.com/richard.ostler.5" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">facebook.com/richard.ostler.5</a> E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com

Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

Amy Pierson

My dear friends Joe and Amy Pierson (married 27 years, parents of 6 children and 1 grandchild) bravely share the story of Joe’s 20+ year addiction to pornography.   Yes, it almost ended their marriage.  And pornography ends some marriages. Through hard work, the Savior’s help and a deeply spiritual experience feeling God’s love, Joe has been free of pornography for nearly three years.  It’s a brutal road of shame and dishonesty resulting in significant emotional pain (betrayal trauma) for Amy.   It is also a beautiful love story of Joe and Amy struggling, but determined to keep their marriage together, with 12-step programs, learning to surrender, and the Atonement of Jesus Christ.  When I served as a YSA Bishop, many of the wonderful YSA’s were working to solve this problem.  I wish I had heard Joe and Amy’s story back then.  It would have given me additional tools to help others overcome pornography.    I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast.  It will help you help others.   If you are working to overcome pornography, this podcast will give you more tools and hope. Here are a couple of lines of wisdom from Amy and Joe: My worth is set.  Everything else is experienceRepentance from sin is not the same of recovery from addictionThe 12-steps are the Atonement of Jesus Christ in actionForgiveness and trust are two different things. Amy and Joe are heroes to me (and my others) for bravely sharing their story.  Stories like these are so needed.  They are available to speak in Ward/Stake events.    We have plenty of messages of ‘stay away from pornography’.   I agree with this message.   But we need more stories of people actually walking this road as they authentically help others. Thanks for being on the podcast Joe and Amy.    You two are awesome.

My dear friends Joe and Amy Pierson (married 27 years, parents of 6 children and 1 grandchild) bravely share the story of Joe’s 20+ year addiction to pornography. Yes, it almost ended their marriage. And pornography ends some marriages. Through hard work, the Savior’s help and a deeply spiritual experience feeling God’s love, Joe has been free of pornography for nearly three years. It’s a brutal road of shame and dishonesty resulting in significant emotional pain (betrayal trauma) for Amy. It is also a beautiful love story of Joe and Amy struggling, but determined to keep their marriage together, with 12-step programs, learning to surrender, and the Atonement of Jesus Christ. When I served as a YSA Bishop, many of the wonderful YSA’s were working to solve this problem. I wish I had heard Joe and Amy’s story back then. It would have given me additional tools to help others overcome pornography. I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast. It will help you help others. If you are working to overcome pornography, this podcast will give you more tools and hope. Here are a couple of lines of wisdom from Amy and Joe: My worth is set. Everything else is experience Repentance from sin is not the same of recovery from addiction The 12-steps are the Atonement of Jesus Christ in action Forgiveness and trust are two different things. Amy and Joe are heroes to me (and my others) for bravely sharing their story. Stories like these are so needed. They are available to speak in Ward/Stake events. We have plenty of messages of ‘stay away from pornography’. I agree with this message. But we need more stories of people actually walking this road as they authentically help others. Thanks for being on the podcast Joe and Amy. You two are awesome.

Episode 190: Joe and Amy Pierson, Active LDS,  Joe’s Porn Addiction

Aubrey Chaves

My friends Tim and Aubrey Chaves (parents of 4 children) talk about their faith crisis/transition and why they stay active LDS.  It’s a beautiful story. They also share creating a feeling of belonging at church, their role with Faith Matters (check out https://faithmatters.org/), wonderful gifts of a faith crisis and conclude with Tim’s journey with scrupulosity. If you are in a faith crisis and want to stay in the Church (or are helping others stay), please listen to this podcast.   Tim and Aubrey have incredible insights and a wonderful testimony of our beautiful restored doctrine.   You can read from Tim at https://timchaves.com/.   Thanks for being on the podcast, Tim and Aubrey.  You two are awesome and give me hope for the future of our Church and society.   Thanks for all you are doing to bless and help others.

My friends Tim and Aubrey Chaves (parents of 4 children) talk about their faith crisis/transition and why they stay active LDS. It’s a beautiful story. They also share creating a feeling of belonging at church, their role with Faith Matters (check out <a href="https://faithmatters.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://faithmatters.org/</a>), wonderful gifts of a faith crisis and conclude with Tim’s journey with scrupulosity. If you are in a faith crisis and want to stay in the Church (or are helping others stay), please listen to this podcast. Tim and Aubrey have incredible insights and a wonderful testimony of our beautiful restored doctrine. You can read from Tim at <a href="https://timchaves.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://timchaves.com/</a>. Thanks for being on the podcast, Tim and Aubrey. You two are awesome and give me hope for the future of our Church and society. Thanks for all you are doing to bless and help others.

Episode 199: Tim and Aubrey Chaves,  Active LDS,  Faith Crisis, Scrupulosity

Amanda Sorensen

My friends Skyler and Amanda share their story. The first part of the podcast is Skyler coming out as gay to Amanda while they were dating. That brought them closer together and they were married in the Provo City Center Temple in March 2018. They have a beautiful, authentic and wonderful marriage. The second part of the podcast is the birth of their beautiful son Milo at 24.5 weeks. They share having Milo for 24 days until his sudden death on Aug 25, 2019. Skyler and Amanda bravely share the story of losing their beautiful son, how they are grieving and what helpful things we can do/say to those grieving. I felt Milo with us.” Thank you for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you and your story will give hope, healing and better understanding to our listeners. The three of you are awesome.

My friends Skyler and Amanda share their story. The first part of the podcast is Skyler coming out as gay to Amanda while they were dating. That brought them closer together and they were married in the Provo City Center Temple in March 2018. They have a beautiful, authentic and wonderful marriage. The second part of the podcast is the birth of their beautiful son Milo at 24.5 weeks. They share having Milo for 24 days until his sudden death on Aug 25, 2019. Skyler and Amanda bravely share the story of losing their beautiful son, how they are grieving and what helpful things we can do/say to those grieving. I felt Milo with us.” Thank you for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you and your story will give hope, healing and better understanding to our listeners. The three of you are awesome.

Episode 243: Skyler and Amanda Sorensen, Active LDS

Kerri Scott

My friend Kerri Scott bravely shares the story of her 2-month affair that resulted in a child.   Kerri shares telling her husband Troy, going through Church discipline, how her marriage ultimately survived, and how Troy accepted this child as his own. This is a story about pain, redemption, forgiveness, communication, friends and family, and the Atonement of Jesus Christ to forgive and heal broken hearts.   Thank you Kerri for sharing your story.  It gives us all hope and better insights into the Atonement.   You are Troy are two of my new heroes.   Thanks for being on the podcast.

My friend Kerri Scott bravely shares the story of her 2-month affair that resulted in a child. Kerri shares telling her husband Troy, going through Church discipline, how her marriage ultimately survived, and how Troy accepted this child as his own. This is a story about pain, redemption, forgiveness, communication, friends and family, and the Atonement of Jesus Christ to forgive and heal broken hearts. Thank you Kerri for sharing your story. It gives us all hope and better insights into the Atonement. You are Troy are two of my new heroes. Thanks for being on the podcast.

Episode 247: Kerri Scott, Active LDS, Married Mother of 6, Affair

Jared Halverson

My friend Jared Halverson, finishing up a PHD in American Religious History from Vanderbilt University Divinity School, joins me to talk about how to help Latter-day Saints with honest questions. I became aware of Jared from these excellent LDS Living Videos: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=518222565797021 and https://www.facebook.com/LDSLiving/videos/222190582197378/ If you have questions about the Church or want better tools to help those with questions, please listen and share this podcast. Brother Halverson helps us understand that questions are positive steps in developing our faith and testimony. Thank you for being on the podcast, Jared. I was personally deeply touched by the things you shared and your insights into our restored Church. You have a beautiful and unique ministry to help in improve our culture to normalize asking questions and help more of our wonderful members have better tools to stay in our Church.

My friend Jared Halverson, finishing up a PHD in American Religious History from Vanderbilt University Divinity School, joins me to talk about how to help Latter-day Saints with honest questions. I became aware of Jared from these excellent LDS Living Videos: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=518222565797021" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=518222565797021</a> and <a href="https://www.facebook.com/LDSLiving/videos/222190582197378/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/LDSLiving/videos/222190582197378/</a> If you have questions about the Church or want better tools to help those with questions, please listen and share this podcast. Brother Halverson helps us understand that questions are positive steps in developing our faith and testimony. Thank you for being on the podcast, Jared. I was personally deeply touched by the things you shared and your insights into our restored Church. You have a beautiful and unique ministry to help in improve our culture to normalize asking questions and help more of our wonderful members have better tools to stay in our Church.

Episode 259: Brother Jared Halverson, U of U Institute Teacher, Helping Those With Questions

Richard Ostler

I wanted to give you, our listeners, an update on a few topics. I will talk about my LGBTQ POV, upcoming book (fall 2020), podcast history and future, my testimony, church service and additional thoughts. Thank you for joining me and your efforts to make this podcast possible.

Episode 216: Richard Ostler, Update to Listeners

Jacob Graf

My friend Jacob Graf shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Jacob feels his path is find a husband and have a family. Jacob is respectful of the church and grateful for the spiritual foundation it provides and his continued relationship with his Heavenly Parents.   Jacob and is close to his wonderful and supportive family. Jacob acknowledges he is choosing a path outside the teachings of our church which I sustain and support, and as a fellow human is worthy our support and understanding as he makes his way forward. Jacob, who is out as gay at work, has a leadership role at Divvy located in Utah County and talks about the positive environment for fellow LGBTQ employees. I’m glad to hear this is a non-issue at Divvy and realize how far we have come as a society.   Thanks for being the podcast, Jacob and sharing your story. You have a great life ahead of you.

My friend Jacob Graf shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Jacob feels his path is find a husband and have a family. Jacob is respectful of the church and grateful for the spiritual foundation it provides and his continued relationship with his Heavenly Parents. Jacob and is close to his wonderful and supportive family. Jacob acknowledges he is choosing a path outside the teachings of our church which I sustain and support, and as a fellow human is worthy our support and understanding as he makes his way forward. Jacob, who is out as gay at work, has a leadership role at Divvy located in Utah County and talks about the positive environment for fellow LGBTQ employees. I’m glad to hear this is a non-issue at Divvy and realize how far we have come as a society. Thanks for being the podcast, Jacob and sharing your story. You have a great life ahead of you.

Episode 211: Jacob Graf, Gay Latter-day Saint, RM, Age 26

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