Rich Klasco's guest appearances

Rich Klasco

Relentless Health Value™

Mark Cuban

Kyle Samani

David Smith

Michael Hunt

Marty Makary

Mike Rea

Laura Adams

Erik Davis

Jason Rose

Johns Hopkins

James Grant

Lisa Simpson

George Mathew

John Moore

Jennifer Miller

OwlTail

Nicole Bradberry

Jeff Hogan

Darrell Moon

Grace Terrell

Recently I was talking to someone, a civilian not in health care, and I mentioned something about how patients don’t always get a treatment plan (a care plan) based on the best evidence or sometimes even any evidence. Here’s how I explained it to him—what this looks like in the real world: Let’s say two patients, patient 1 and patient 2, with the exact same clinical needs and zip code … both these two patients see the exact same doctor. The only difference between these two patients is that they’re two different colors. And let’s add a third patient into this mix: say, ME. Let’s say I have the exact same profile and zip code as those first two patients. I see a different clinician in the same exact practice, though. In all these circumstances, evidence is evidence, right? There should be one care plan that all three of us get when we show up at that same care setting. Until the evidence changes, that is, right? But the reality is that it’s just as likely that those other two patients and I, we all get various shades of different care plans. The civilian I was having the original conversation with about evidence-based medicine and this care planning? He literally recoiled in surprise. He was shocked. He said he thought medicine was more science than that. I’m going to take that anecdote as a data point to suggest that there is a disconnect between what patients think is going on and what is actually going on relative to how care plans tend to happen in health care. Alex Akers from Health Catalyst in episode 176 and Clint Phillips from Medici in episode 201 get into this in detail. You can listen to full episodes and learn more about this week’s guests at relentlesshealthvalue.com.    Jeffrey Hogan is the northeast regional manager for Rogers Benefit Group, a national benefits marketing and consulting firm. Jeff has been with Rogers Benefit Group for 30 years. Additionally, Jeff operates a consulting firm, Upside Health Advisors, where he provides expert witness services on health care–related litigation, is a consultant to payers and large provider groups for product development and launch, and is a resource to employers desirous of implementing strategies to manage their health spend. Jeff is focused on health care payment reform, health policy, care coordination, value-based health care, health care quality, and precision medicine. Jeff regularly appears on national forums focused on moving to value-based health care and is actively working to promote health care–related transparency measures in the market. He serves as the group’s liaison to the National Alliance of Healthcare Purchaser Coalitions. Jeff is the regional leader for The Leapfrog Group. He is also one of the coordinators of Connecticut’s Moving to Value Alliance. Darrell Moon founded Orriant in 1996 to change the dynamics of health care and give employers some control over the ever-increasing costs of the health care benefits they offer their employees. Darrell believed that engaging individuals in the management of their own health was a key that had to be inserted back into the economic equation of health care. Darrell received both his bachelor’s degree in finance and his master’s degree in healthcare administration from Brigham Young University. As the CEO, COO, or CFO, Darrell managed medical and psychiatric hospitals throughout the country for over 10 years prior to creating Orriant. He also has more than a decade of experience managing insurance and managed care products. Darrell is a Forbes leadership contributor. Grace E. Terrell, MD, MMM, is CEO of Eventus WholeHealth, a company focused on integrated value-based behavioral medicine and primary care in the long-term care space. She is a national thought leader in health care innovation and delivery system reform and a serial entrepreneur in population health outcomes driven through patient care model design, clinical and information integration, and value-based payment models. She is the former CEO of Cornerstone Health Care, one of the first medical groups to make the “move to value” by lowering the cost of care and improving its quality for the sickest, most vulnerable patients; the founding CEO of CHESS, a population health management company; and the former CEO of Envision Genomics, a company focused on the integration of precision medicine technology into population health frameworks for patients with rare and undiagnosed diseases. Dr. Terrell currently serves on the US Department of Health and Human Services Physician-Focused Payment Model Technical Advisory Committee and the board of the AMGA (American Medical Group Association), is a founding member of the Oliver Wyman Health Innovation Center, and is the coauthor of Value-Based Healthcare and Payment Models. Rich Klasco, MD, FACEP, has focused throughout his career on rendering evidence-based medicine operational—that is, making the right thing the easy thing to do. He has pursued this goal in academia, in industry, in policy, and in the press. In addition to publishing extensively in both peer-reviewed journals such as JAMA and lay publications such as The New York Times, Dr. Klasco has taught at leading academic medical centers, including Harvard, Stanford, Mayo, and the University of California, San Francisco; served on the executive committee of Brigham and Women’s Hospital Center for Patient Safety Research and Practice; testified before the United States Congress on evidence-based practices; and won CMS (Centers for Medicare &amp; Medicaid Services) approval for an officially designated compendium of evidence-based oncologic drug information. Dr. Klasco previously served as chief medical officer and editor-in-chief for the Thomson Reuters group of health care companies, where he had editorial responsibility for companies including Micromedex, the Physicians’ Desk Reference (PDR), and the United States Pharmacopoeia (USP) Drug Information. For the past 15 years, Dr. Klasco has served as chief medical officer for Motive Medical Intelligence, where he provides clinical leadership for the development and deployment of solutions that quantitative assess physician performance for payers, providers, and patients, and integrate scientific knowledge into workflow systems where it can be accessed and applied in real-time. Dr. Klasco received his medical degree from Harvard Medical School. He completed his internship and residency in internal medicine at Brigham and Women’s Hospital, and he completed his residency in emergency medicine at the Denver Health Residency in Emergency Medicine, where he served as chief resident. Nicole Bradberry is the founder and chief of growth and innovation officer for MIND 24-7. MIND 24-7 runs mental health crisis centers with a focus on immediate access, quality care, and the understanding that mental health and substance abuse drive significant health cost. She is also the founder of ValueH Network, which aggregates high-performing value-based care network providers in order to enable the best performance in new innovate contracts. In addition, she is currently the chief executive officer and chairman of the board of the Florida Association of ACOs (FLAACOs). FLAACOs is the premier professional organization for accountable care organizations (ACOs) throughout Florida which provides education and collaboration in the fee for value health care space. Nicole spent 16 years leading operations and information technology programs for UnitedHealth Group and Cigna HealthCare. While there, she served as business lead for the technology transformation of the country’s largest dental and vision services company, led the national deployment of health care quality and affordability programs, and was responsible for the successful integration of many major health plans. Nicole holds a bachelor’s degree in statistics from the University of Florida. She has been recognized for her personal and professional achievements many times, recently as the nation’s Outstanding Midmarket IT Leader of the Year and one of the Business Journal’s “Women of Influence.” She is often found on the speaker faculty for health care conferences focused on ACOs, population health, and value-based care. She is passionate about changing health care and enabling physicians to provide high-quality, cost-effective, and consumer-focused care. Kelly A. Conroy is director of Pinnacle Healthcare Consulting and brings more than 30 years of health care finance, management, and leadership experience with significant experience in value-based care. As a leader in the field, she’d contributed through multiple start-up health care companies with a leading-edge focus on advancements in care delivery and alignment. Kelly started the first Medicare ACO in the country, which delivered nearly $40 million in savings in its first year and has gone on to manage some of the most profitable ACOs in the country. She is now sought after as a senior advisor and consultant, having developed a reputation as one of the most experienced and effective ACO professionals in the country. As a true catalyst driving the shift in health care culture toward physician leadership, her understanding and strategic vision are unmatched, along with her comprehension of the latest government-proposed valued-based agreements. From starting health care organizations to serving in multiple senior executive leadership roles, Kelly is a seasoned executive with a career record of negotiating and increasing revenues through new product offerings while optimizing efficiency and productivity in the medical field. 02:10 Jeff Hogan (EP309) talks about the consequences of when there’s a disconnect between what the patient thinks is happening and what is actually happening in a care plan.03:48 EP315 with Bob Matthews. 03:58 Merrill Goozner’s perspective on successful population health.04:55 Why did Darrell Moon (EP305) give up being a hospital administrator because of care plans? 08:02 “It’s a myth that population medicine … and precision medicine are incompatible or opposites.”—Dr. Grace Terrell (EP319) 11:28 Dr. Rich Klasco (EP321) explains “noncognitive” medicine and why it bogs physicians down.14:45 What is at the core of appropriateness for care? 16:33 “You start to bring that data to the physician, and it really does open their eyes.”—Nicole Bradberry (EP324) 16:51 Nicole Bradberry and Kelly Conroy (EP324) discuss how to really change the way physicians work. You can listen to full episodes and learn more about this week’s guests at relentlesshealthvalue.com.   Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, @gracet22, Dr. Rich Klasco, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy discuss #careplans in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth What are the consequences when there’s a disconnect between what the patient thinks is happening, and what is actually happening in a care plan? Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, @gracet22, Dr. Rich Klasco, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy discuss #careplans in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth Why did Darrell Moon give up being a hospital administrator because of care plans? Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, @gracet22, Dr. Rich Klasco, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy discuss #careplans in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth “It’s a myth that population medicine … and precision medicine are incompatible or opposites.” Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, @gracet22, Dr. Rich Klasco, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy discuss #careplans in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth What is “noncognitive” medicine, and why does it bog physicians down? Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, @gracet22, Dr. Rich Klasco, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy discuss #careplans in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth What is at the core of appropriateness for care? Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, @gracet22, Dr. Rich Klasco, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy discuss #careplans in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth “You start to bring that data to the physician, and it really does open their eyes.” Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, @gracet22, Dr. Rich Klasco, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy discuss #careplans in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth How do you really change the way physicians work? Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, @gracet22, Dr. Rich Klasco, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy discuss #careplans in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth   Recent past interviews: Click a guest’s name for their latest RHV episode! Dr Tony DiGioia, Al Lewis, John Marchica, Joe Connolly, Marshall Allen, Andrew Eye, Naomi Fried, Dr Rishi Wadhera, Dr Mai Pham, Nicole Bradberry and Kelly Conroy, Lee Lewis, Dr Arshad Rahim, Dr Monica Lypson, Dr Rich Klasco, Dr David Carmouche (AEE15), Christian Milaster, Dr Grace Terrell, Troy Larsgard, Josh LaRosa, Dr David Carmouche (EP316), Bob Matthews, Dr Douglas Eby (AEE14), Dr Sheldon Weiss, Dan Strause and Drew Leatherberry, Dr Douglas Eby (EP312), Ge Bai, Sumit Nagpal, Dr Vikas Saini and Shannon Brownlee

Recently I was talking to someone, a civilian not in health care, and I mentioned something about how patients don’t always get a treatment plan (a care plan) based on the best evidence or sometimes even any evidence. Here’s how I explained it to him—what this looks like in the real world: Let’s say two patients, patient 1 and patient 2, with the exact same clinical needs and zip code … both these two patients see the exact same doctor. The only difference between these two patients is that they’re two different colors. And let’s add a third patient into this mix: say, ME. Let’s say I have the exact same profile and zip code as those first two patients. I see a different clinician in the same exact practice, though. In all these circumstances, evidence is evidence, right? There should be one care plan that all three of us get when we show up at that same care setting. Until the evidence changes, that is, right? But the reality is that it’s just as likely that those other two patients and I, we all get various shades of different care plans. The civilian I was having the original conversation with about evidence-based medicine and this care planning? He literally recoiled in surprise. He was shocked. He said he thought medicine was more science than that. I’m going to take that anecdote as a data point to suggest that there is a disconnect between what patients think is going on and what is actually going on relative to how care plans tend to happen in health care. Alex Akers from Health Catalyst in <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep176/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">episode 176</a> and Clint Phillips from Medici in <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep201/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">episode 201</a> get into this in detail. You can listen to full episodes and learn more about this week’s guests at <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">relentlesshealthvalue.com</a>.  Jeffrey Hogan is the northeast regional manager for Rogers Benefit Group, a national benefits marketing and consulting firm. Jeff has been with Rogers Benefit Group for 30 years. Additionally, Jeff operates a consulting firm, Upside Health Advisors, where he provides expert witness services on health care–related litigation, is a consultant to payers and large provider groups for product development and launch, and is a resource to employers desirous of implementing strategies to manage their health spend. Jeff is focused on health care payment reform, health policy, care coordination, value-based health care, health care quality, and precision medicine. Jeff regularly appears on national forums focused on moving to value-based health care and is actively working to promote health care–related transparency measures in the market. He serves as the group’s liaison to the National Alliance of Healthcare Purchaser Coalitions. Jeff is the regional leader for The Leapfrog Group. He is also one of the coordinators of Connecticut’s Moving to Value Alliance. Darrell Moon founded Orriant in 1996 to change the dynamics of health care and give employers some control over the ever-increasing costs of the health care benefits they offer their employees. Darrell believed that engaging individuals in the management of their own health was a key that had to be inserted back into the economic equation of health care. Darrell received both his bachelor’s degree in finance and his master’s degree in healthcare administration from Brigham Young University. As the CEO, COO, or CFO, Darrell managed medical and psychiatric hospitals throughout the country for over 10 years prior to creating Orriant. He also has more than a decade of experience managing insurance and managed care products. Darrell is a Forbes leadership contributor. Grace E. Terrell, MD, MMM, is CEO of Eventus WholeHealth, a company focused on integrated value-based behavioral medicine and primary care in the long-term care space. She is a national thought leader in health care innovation and delivery system reform and a serial entrepreneur in population health outcomes driven through patient care model design, clinical and information integration, and value-based payment models. She is the former CEO of Cornerstone Health Care, one of the first medical groups to make the “move to value” by lowering the cost of care and improving its quality for the sickest, most vulnerable patients; the founding CEO of CHESS, a population health management company; and the former CEO of Envision Genomics, a company focused on the integration of precision medicine technology into population health frameworks for patients with rare and undiagnosed diseases. Dr. Terrell currently serves on the US Department of Health and Human Services Physician-Focused Payment Model Technical Advisory Committee and the board of the AMGA (American Medical Group Association), is a founding member of the Oliver Wyman Health Innovation Center, and is the coauthor of Value-Based Healthcare and Payment Models. Rich Klasco, MD, FACEP, has focused throughout his career on rendering evidence-based medicine operational—that is, making the right thing the easy thing to do. He has pursued this goal in academia, in industry, in policy, and in the press. In addition to publishing extensively in both peer-reviewed journals such as JAMA and lay publications such as The New York Times, Dr. Klasco has taught at leading academic medical centers, including Harvard, Stanford, Mayo, and the University of California, San Francisco; served on the executive committee of Brigham and Women’s Hospital Center for Patient Safety Research and Practice; testified before the United States Congress on evidence-based practices; and won CMS (Centers for Medicare &amp; Medicaid Services) approval for an officially designated compendium of evidence-based oncologic drug information. Dr. Klasco previously served as chief medical officer and editor-in-chief for the Thomson Reuters group of health care companies, where he had editorial responsibility for companies including Micromedex, the Physicians’ Desk Reference (PDR), and the United States Pharmacopoeia (USP) Drug Information. For the past 15 years, Dr. Klasco has served as chief medical officer for Motive Medical Intelligence, where he provides clinical leadership for the development and deployment of solutions that quantitative assess physician performance for payers, providers, and patients, and integrate scientific knowledge into workflow systems where it can be accessed and applied in real-time. Dr. Klasco received his medical degree from Harvard Medical School. He completed his internship and residency in internal medicine at Brigham and Women’s Hospital, and he completed his residency in emergency medicine at the Denver Health Residency in Emergency Medicine, where he served as chief resident. Nicole Bradberry is the founder and chief of growth and innovation officer for MIND 24-7. MIND 24-7 runs mental health crisis centers with a focus on immediate access, quality care, and the understanding that mental health and substance abuse drive significant health cost. She is also the founder of ValueH Network, which aggregates high-performing value-based care network providers in order to enable the best performance in new innovate contracts. In addition, she is currently the chief executive officer and chairman of the board of the Florida Association of ACOs (FLAACOs). FLAACOs is the premier professional organization for accountable care organizations (ACOs) throughout Florida which provides education and collaboration in the fee for value health care space. Nicole spent 16 years leading operations and information technology programs for UnitedHealth Group and Cigna HealthCare. While there, she served as business lead for the technology transformation of the country’s largest dental and vision services company, led the national deployment of health care quality and affordability programs, and was responsible for the successful integration of many major health plans. Nicole holds a bachelor’s degree in statistics from the University of Florida. She has been recognized for her personal and professional achievements many times, recently as the nation’s Outstanding Midmarket IT Leader of the Year and one of the Business Journal’s “Women of Influence.” She is often found on the speaker faculty for health care conferences focused on ACOs, population health, and value-based care. She is passionate about changing health care and enabling physicians to provide high-quality, cost-effective, and consumer-focused care. Kelly A. Conroy is director of Pinnacle Healthcare Consulting and brings more than 30 years of health care finance, management, and leadership experience with significant experience in value-based care. As a leader in the field, she’d contributed through multiple start-up health care companies with a leading-edge focus on advancements in care delivery and alignment. Kelly started the first Medicare ACO in the country, which delivered nearly $40 million in savings in its first year and has gone on to manage some of the most profitable ACOs in the country. She is now sought after as a senior advisor and consultant, having developed a reputation as one of the most experienced and effective ACO professionals in the country. As a true catalyst driving the shift in health care culture toward physician leadership, her understanding and strategic vision are unmatched, along with her comprehension of the latest government-proposed valued-based agreements. From starting health care organizations to serving in multiple senior executive leadership roles, Kelly is a seasoned executive with a career record of negotiating and increasing revenues through new product offerings while optimizing efficiency and productivity in the medical field. 02:10 Jeff Hogan (<a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep309/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">EP309</a>) talks about the consequences of when there’s a disconnect between what the patient thinks is happening and what is actually happening in a care plan.03:48 <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep315/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">EP315</a> with Bob Matthews. 03:58 <a href="https://gooznews.substack.com/p/divorce-healthcare-style" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Merrill Goozner’s</a> perspective on successful population health.04:55 Why did Darrell Moon (<a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep305/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">EP305</a>) give up being a hospital administrator because of care plans? 08:02 “It’s a myth that population medicine … and precision medicine are incompatible or opposites.”—Dr. Grace Terrell (<a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep319/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">EP319</a>) 11:28 Dr. Rich Klasco (<a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep321/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">EP321</a>) explains “noncognitive” medicine and why it bogs physicians down.14:45 What is at the core of appropriateness for care? 16:33 “You start to bring that data to the physician, and it really does open their eyes.”—Nicole Bradberry (<a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep324/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">EP324</a>) 16:51 Nicole Bradberry and Kelly Conroy (<a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep324/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">EP324</a>) discuss how to really change the way physicians work. You can listen to full episodes and learn more about this week’s guests at <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">relentlesshealthvalue.com</a>.  Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, @gracet22, Dr. Rich Klasco, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy discuss #careplans in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth What are the consequences when there’s a disconnect between what the patient thinks is happening, and what is actually happening in a care plan? Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, @gracet22, Dr. Rich Klasco, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy discuss #careplans in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth Why did Darrell Moon give up being a hospital administrator because of care plans? Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, @gracet22, Dr. Rich Klasco, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy discuss #careplans in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth “It’s a myth that population medicine … and precision medicine are incompatible or opposites.” Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, @gracet22, Dr. Rich Klasco, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy discuss #careplans in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth What is “noncognitive” medicine, and why does it bog physicians down? Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, @gracet22, Dr. Rich Klasco, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy discuss #careplans in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth What is at the core of appropriateness for care? Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, @gracet22, Dr. Rich Klasco, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy discuss #careplans in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth “You start to bring that data to the physician, and it really does open their eyes.” Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, @gracet22, Dr. Rich Klasco, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy discuss #careplans in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth How do you really change the way physicians work? Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, @gracet22, Dr. Rich Klasco, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy discuss #careplans in our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth Recent past interviews: Click a guest’s name for their latest RHV episode! <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep332/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Dr Tony DiGioia</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep331/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Al Lewis</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep330/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">John Marchica</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep329/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Joe Connolly</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep328/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Marshall Allen</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/encore_ep263/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Andrew Eye</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep327/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Naomi Fried</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep326/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Dr Rishi Wadhera</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep325/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Dr Mai Pham</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep324/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Nicole Bradberry and Kelly Conroy</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/encore244/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Lee Lewis</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep323/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Dr Arshad Rahim</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep322/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Dr Monica Lypson</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep321/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Dr Rich Klasco</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/aee15/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Dr David Carmouche (AEE15)</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep320/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Christian Milaster</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep319/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Dr Grace Terrell</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep318/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Troy Larsgard</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep317/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Josh LaRosa</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep316/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Dr David Carmouche (EP316)</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep315/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Bob Matthews</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/aee14/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Dr Douglas Eby (AEE14)</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep314/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Dr Sheldon Weiss</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep313/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Dan Strause and Drew Leatherberry</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep312/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Dr Douglas Eby (EP312)</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/aee13/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Ge Bai</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep311/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Sumit Nagpal</a>, <a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep310/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Dr Vikas Saini and Shannon Brownlee</a>

EP333: Actually Using Care Plans in the Real World, With (in Order of Appearance) Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, Dr. Grace Terrell, Dr. Rich Klasco, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy

If you listen to this show on the regular, you probably have a pretty good bead on a couple of things I’ve been really into lately. One of them is high-value care versus low-value care. These are terms that are really easy to throw around. You also can get pretty much everybody to agree with a plan to deliver only high-value care and quit it with the low-value care … in theory. But the wheels fall right off the bus when it comes to actually doing this. IRL (in real life), what constitutes high-value care and what is low-value care exactly and specifically? This answer is the crucible for value-based care of almost any flavor. How are you supposed to do value-based care successfully when it remains an open question, “What is care that is of value?” Here’s the good news, though. There is a bounty of unmistakably, inarguably low-value things. We can start there. Now, these low-value things may be situational in some respects, so you’ll need to listen to my interview with Dr. Mark Fendrick (EP308) for the scoop on that nuance. But there are definitely some things which are incontrovertibly low value. Here’s some more good news. There’s a few ways to ferret out low-value things, and one of them is to look at data on practice patterns across a specialty. You can index the data nationally or regionally or even within the same practice. Here’s an example: Let’s just say, on average, a dermatologist does 1.74 cuts or surgical slices for Mohs surgery, where they often get paid by the cut, by the way. However, you can find some physicians who are outliers—derms who have two standard deviations above that average. The good news is that a lot of the times, all you have to do is show the doctors the data. Show them that they’re an outlier and they’ll alter their practice patterns. So, one way to figure out what the standard of care should be is by looking at physicians’ actual experience and practices. That seems very fair. Marty Makary, Will Bruhn, and others from the team at Hopkins get a lot of credit for their pioneering work in this area. Other ways include assessing pubs and the guidelines that societies put out. I’m also sure that, more and more, it will also involve combing through real-world evidence. In this health care podcast, I speak with Rich Klasco, MD, who is chief medical officer at Motive Medical Intelligence; and we talk about the challenges and opportunities and solutions when it comes to identifying high- versus low-value care. Dr. Klasco has an interesting construct for this. We also talk about how patients, providers, and payers might have different points of view, incentives, and capacities really to distinguish the high from the low. You can learn more at motivemi.com. For more information and the case study, please visit motivepw.com/resources.     Rich Klasco, MD, FACEP, has focused throughout his career on rendering evidence-based medicine operational—that is, making the right thing the easy thing to do. He has pursued this goal in academia, in industry, in policy, and in the press. In addition to publishing extensively in both peer-reviewed journals such as JAMA and lay publications such as The New York Times, Dr. Klasco has taught at leading academic medical centers, including Harvard, Stanford, Mayo, and the University of California, San Francisco; served on the executive committee of Brigham and Women’s Hospital Center for Patient Safety Research and Practice; testified before the United States Congress on evidence-based practices; and won CMS approval for an officially designated compendium of evidence-based oncologic drug information. Dr. Klasco previously served as chief medical officer and editor-in-chief for the Thomson Reuters group of health care companies, where he had editorial responsibility for companies including Micromedex, the Physicians’ Desk Reference (PDR), and the United States Pharmacopoeia (USP) Drug Information. For the past 15 years, Dr. Klasco has served as chief medical officer for Motive Medical Intelligence, where he provides clinical leadership for the development and deployment of solutions that quantitative assess physician performance for payers, providers, and patients, and integrate scientific knowledge into workflow systems where it can be accessed and applied in real-time. Dr. Klasco received his medical degree from Harvard Medical School. He completed his internship and residency in internal medicine at Brigham and Women’s Hospital, and he completed his residency in emergency medicine at the Denver Health Residency in Emergency Medicine, where he served as chief resident. 03:31 How do you define high-value care? 04:40 How do we define what isn’t appropriate care? 05:26 Why aren’t patients good at recognizing high-value care? 07:02 “He was in the ‘more is more’ school of medicine, which is always wrong.” 11:54 Are payers good at identifying high-value care? 13:41 Why are payers so adept at understanding what high-value care really is? 15:53 “It’s not just cost cutting; it’s utilization, optimization of resources.” 16:02 “This is, again, an innovation of appropriateness.” 18:38 “We have to deal with the world that we have in front of us now.” 19:55 How do we get everyone on the same page about high-value and appropriate care? 24:16 How does a team recognize the path forward for appropriate care? You can learn more at motivemi.com. For more information and the case study, please visit motivepw.com/resources.    Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc How do you define high-value care? Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc How do we define what isn’t appropriate care? Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc Why aren’t patients good at recognizing high-value care? Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc “He was in the ‘more is more’ school of medicine, which is always wrong.” Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc Are payers good at identifying high-value care? Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc Why are payers so adept at understanding what high-value care really is? Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc “It’s not just cost cutting; it’s utilization, optimization of resources.” Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc “This is, again, an innovation of appropriateness.” Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc “We have to deal with the world that we have in front of us now.” Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc How do we get everyone on the same page about high-value and appropriate care? Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc How does a team recognize the path forward for appropriate care? Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc

If you listen to this show on the regular, you probably have a pretty good bead on a couple of things I’ve been really into lately. One of them is high-value care versus low-value care. These are terms that are really easy to throw around. You also can get pretty much everybody to agree with a plan to deliver only high-value care and quit it with the low-value care … in theory. But the wheels fall right off the bus when it comes to actually doing this. IRL (in real life), what constitutes high-value care and what is low-value care exactly and specifically? This answer is the crucible for value-based care of almost any flavor. How are you supposed to do value-based care successfully when it remains an open question, “What is care that is of value?” Here’s the good news, though. There is a bounty of unmistakably, inarguably low-value things. We can start there. Now, these low-value things may be situational in some respects, so you’ll need to listen to my interview with Dr. Mark Fendrick (<a href="https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/audios/ep308/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">EP308</a>) for the scoop on that nuance. But there are definitely some things which are incontrovertibly low value. Here’s some more good news. There’s a few ways to ferret out low-value things, and one of them is to look at data on practice patterns across a specialty. You can index the data nationally or regionally or even within the same practice. Here’s an example: Let’s just say, on average, a dermatologist does 1.74 cuts or surgical slices for Mohs surgery, where they often get paid by the cut, by the way. However, you can find some physicians who are outliers—derms who have two standard deviations above that average. The good news is that a lot of the times, all you have to do is show the doctors the data. Show them that they’re an outlier and they’ll alter their practice patterns. So, one way to figure out what the standard of care should be is by looking at physicians’ actual experience and practices. That seems very fair. Marty Makary, Will Bruhn, and others from the team at Hopkins get a lot of credit for their pioneering work in this area. Other ways include assessing pubs and the guidelines that societies put out. I’m also sure that, more and more, it will also involve combing through real-world evidence. In this health care podcast, I speak with Rich Klasco, MD, who is chief medical officer at Motive Medical Intelligence; and we talk about the challenges and opportunities and solutions when it comes to identifying high- versus low-value care. Dr. Klasco has an interesting construct for this. We also talk about how patients, providers, and payers might have different points of view, incentives, and capacities really to distinguish the high from the low. You can learn more at <a href="https://motivemi.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">motivemi.com</a>. For more information and the case study, please visit <a href="https://motivepw.com/resources/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">motivepw.com/resources</a>.   Rich Klasco, MD, FACEP, has focused throughout his career on rendering evidence-based medicine operational—that is, making the right thing the easy thing to do. He has pursued this goal in academia, in industry, in policy, and in the press. In addition to publishing extensively in both peer-reviewed journals such as JAMA and lay publications such as The New York Times, Dr. Klasco has taught at leading academic medical centers, including Harvard, Stanford, Mayo, and the University of California, San Francisco; served on the executive committee of Brigham and Women’s Hospital Center for Patient Safety Research and Practice; testified before the United States Congress on evidence-based practices; and won CMS approval for an officially designated compendium of evidence-based oncologic drug information. Dr. Klasco previously served as chief medical officer and editor-in-chief for the Thomson Reuters group of health care companies, where he had editorial responsibility for companies including Micromedex, the Physicians’ Desk Reference (PDR), and the United States Pharmacopoeia (USP) Drug Information. For the past 15 years, Dr. Klasco has served as chief medical officer for Motive Medical Intelligence, where he provides clinical leadership for the development and deployment of solutions that quantitative assess physician performance for payers, providers, and patients, and integrate scientific knowledge into workflow systems where it can be accessed and applied in real-time. Dr. Klasco received his medical degree from Harvard Medical School. He completed his internship and residency in internal medicine at Brigham and Women’s Hospital, and he completed his residency in emergency medicine at the Denver Health Residency in Emergency Medicine, where he served as chief resident. 03:31 How do you define high-value care? 04:40 How do we define what isn’t appropriate care? 05:26 Why aren’t patients good at recognizing high-value care? 07:02 “He was in the ‘more is more’ school of medicine, which is always wrong.” 11:54 Are payers good at identifying high-value care? 13:41 Why are payers so adept at understanding what high-value care really is? 15:53 “It’s not just cost cutting; it’s utilization, optimization of resources.” 16:02 “This is, again, an innovation of appropriateness.” 18:38 “We have to deal with the world that we have in front of us now.” 19:55 How do we get everyone on the same page about high-value and appropriate care? 24:16 How does a team recognize the path forward for appropriate care? You can learn more at <a href="https://motivemi.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">motivemi.com</a>. For more information and the case study, please visit <a href="https://motivepw.com/resources/" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">motivepw.com/resources</a>.   Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc How do you define high-value care? Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc How do we define what isn’t appropriate care? Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc Why aren’t patients good at recognizing high-value care? Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc “He was in the ‘more is more’ school of medicine, which is always wrong.” Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc Are payers good at identifying high-value care? Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc Why are payers so adept at understanding what high-value care really is? Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc “It’s not just cost cutting; it’s utilization, optimization of resources.” Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc “This is, again, an innovation of appropriateness.” Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc “We have to deal with the world that we have in front of us now.” Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc How do we get everyone on the same page about high-value and appropriate care? Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc How does a team recognize the path forward for appropriate care? Rich Klasco, MD, discusses #lowvaluecare on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #digitalhealth #valuebasedcare #vbc

EP321: How to Point Out Low-Value Care Without Starting a Fistfight, With Rich Klasco, MD