Ken Tindell's guest appearances

Ken Tindell

The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast

Autonocast

Motoring Podcast - Rear View

OnTrack: The PCB Design Podcast

The Short STOry

Tom Ford

Charles Schwab

Ed Niedermeyer

James Cameron

David Austin

Paul Tudor Jones

Graeme Davison

Vicky Parrott

Nick Bailey

Chris Pollitt

Richard Brunning

Roy Lanchester

Carlton Boyce

Paul Cowland

Lukas Neckermann

OwlTail

Welcome Dr Ken Tindell of Canis Labs  Ken heard episode #631 where Chris was talking about a Noisy Rude Bus and he objected. Stringently (it seems Ken has since pulled down the posts, but they were in good fun) Chris had been planning to talk about Ken’s recent awesome post about CAN hacking and cars being stolen, so he asked Ken to be on the show! CAN was invented to reduce weight in car cable harnesses, which were increasing rapidly with more electrical features being included. CAN vs LIN CAN was expensive, but LIN is cheap because it’s bit banging the protocol from a microcontroller There are bridges to go between CAN and LIN buses. Modern cars have 20-100 ECUs (controllers), but it depends on the features the car has. But that’s not just microcontrollers, Ken estimates that could be as high as 700. Chris and Ken both had dealth with Philips / Freescale / NXP / Motorola as silicon vendors in the automotive space How does a tiny microcontroller get data onto the bus? Prioritized traffic CAN indentifier field has priority baked in Bus works like a giant AND gate where the lowest address wins 11 bits How to unwind CAN traffic Packing signals into CAN frame Tools to reverse engineer Protocol decoder for sigrok CAN HG 250kb is slow CAN bus bandwidth There is Ethernet in cars now, especially with more and more cameras Bandwidth vs latency Addressing through a gateway Atomic broadcasts means you know that each device has processed it Protocol hacking Trucks aren’t OEM based so more vertically integrated SAE J1939 standard in trucks If say Toyota develops the CAN messages, DBC files decode everything. But manufacturers don’t publish them, so some car messages are reverse engineered Accessories bus Who has access to DBCs? Diagnostic systems OBD2 CARB CAN is physical ISO 11898 CAN XL has IP packets, so you can use wireshark Ken has written about wireshark CAN 2.0, CAN FD Devices on a bus are normally all bare metal or RTOS because of the timing requirements OSEK standard Embedded system abstraction Dealing with the magnitude of decisions making in the automotive industry Chris asked about whether self-driving will happen in 5 or 20 years? (ie. does he agree with Chris or Dave). It was the latter, sadly. Autonomic Cars podcast with Dr Phil Coopman

Welcome Dr Ken Tindell of <a href="https://canislabs.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Canis Labs</a> <ul> <li>Ken heard <a href="https://theamphour.com/631-a-noisy-rude-bus/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">episode #631 where Chris was talking about a Noisy Rude Bus</a> and <a href="https://chaos.social/@kentindell@mastodon.social" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">he objected. Stringently (it seems Ken has since pulled down the posts, but they were in good fun)</a></li> <li>Chris had been planning to talk about <a href="https://kentindell.github.io/2023/04/03/can-injection/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ken’s recent awesome post about CAN hacking and cars being stolen</a>, so he asked Ken to be on the show!</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">CAN was invented to reduce weight in car cable harnesses</a>, which were increasing rapidly with more electrical features being included.</li> <li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HCRI0n6NW4" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">CAN vs LIN</a></li> <li>CAN was expensive, but LIN is cheap because it’s bit banging the protocol from a microcontroller</li> <li>There are bridges to go between CAN and LIN buses.</li> <li>Modern cars have 20-100 ECUs (controllers), but it depends on the features the car has. But that’s not just microcontrollers, Ken estimates that could be as high as 700.</li> <li>Chris and Ken both had dealth with Philips / Freescale / NXP / Motorola as silicon vendors in the automotive space</li> <li>How does a tiny microcontroller get data onto the bus?</li> <li>Prioritized traffic</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">CAN indentifier field</a> has priority baked in</li> <li>Bus works like a giant AND gate where the lowest address wins</li> <li>11 bits</li> <li>How to unwind CAN traffic</li> <li>Packing signals into CAN frame</li> <li>Tools to reverse engineer</li> <li><a href="https://kentindell.github.io/2020/12/19/can2-decoder/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Protocol decoder for sigrok</a></li> <li><a href="https://canislabs.com/downloads/1905-2020-12-14-CAN-HG-overview.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">CAN HG</a></li> <li>250kb is slow</li> <li><a href="https://www.kvaser.com/can-protocol-tutorial/#:~:text=The%20maximum%20speed%20of%20a,up%20to%20125%20kbit%2Fs." rel="nofollow" target="_blank">CAN bus bandwidth</a></li> <li>There is Ethernet in cars now, especially with more and more cameras</li> <li>Bandwidth vs latency</li> <li>Addressing through a <a href="https://www.traquair.com/can/gateways/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">gateway</a></li> <li><a href="https://kentindell.github.io/2020/07/11/can-atomic-multicast/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Atomic broadcasts</a> means you know that each device has processed it</li> <li>Protocol hacking</li> <li>Trucks aren’t OEM based so more vertically integrated</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1939" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">SAE J1939</a> standard in trucks</li> <li>If say Toyota develops the CAN messages, <a href="https://www.csselectronics.com/pages/can-dbc-file-database-intro" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">DBC files</a> decode everything.</li> <li>But manufacturers don’t publish them, so some car messages are reverse engineered</li> <li>Accessories bus</li> <li>Who has access to DBCs?</li> <li>Diagnostic systems</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">OBD2</a></li> <li><a href="https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/new-vehicle-and-engine-certification" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">CARB</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.can-cia.org/can-knowledge/can/systemdesign-can-physicallayer/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">CAN is physical ISO 11898</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTlkWWsu8lM" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">CAN XL</a> has IP packets, so you can use wireshark</li> <li><a href="https://kentindell.github.io/2021/01/02/can2-wireshark/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ken has written about wireshark</a></li> <li><a href="http://esd.cs.ucr.edu/webres/can20.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">CAN 2.0</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_FD" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">CAN FD</a></li> <li>Devices on a bus are normally all bare metal or RTOS because of the timing requirements</li> <li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSEK" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">OSEK standard</a></li> <li>Embedded system abstraction</li> <li>Dealing with the magnitude of decisions making in the automotive industry</li> <li>Chris asked about whether self-driving will happen in 5 or 20 years? (ie. does he agree with Chris or Dave). It was the latter, sadly.</li> <li><a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/phil-koopman-proposes-an-easier-way-to-talk-about/id1137686333?i=1000512910880" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Autonomic Cars podcast with Dr Phil Coopman</a></li></ul>

#634 – The CAN bus can! with Dr Ken Tindell

In this episode, we will learn so much about embedded CAN bus, for automobile security and performance straight from the water host, Ken Tindell the CTO of Canis Labs. A lot of interesting facts about cyber security and automobile hacking that you would not want to miss! Watch through the end and make sure to check the additional resources below. Watch this episode Get Your First Month of Altium Designer® for FREE Show Highlights: Ken Tindell’s background and how he got started with CAN bus and CAN security Ken worked with Motorola on designing the MS CAN—the first CAN controller that did all the buffer scheduling correctly Ethernet and CAN coexist in autonomous vehicles’ architecture, Ken explains how There are two types of major attacks on the CAN bus: attacking the physical wiring and attacking the computer that has access to the wiring. Zac and Ken talk about the mind-blowing advanced techniques of hacking automobiles Story of irony. A friend of Ken in automobile cybersecurity had his car stolen The biggest car-hacking horror would be through the cloud — cloud-based APIs to phone and at the same time CAN bus protocol hacking on the transceiver pins CAN HD, an augmentation for high speed and guarding the CAN bus Canis Labs is in the works to provide real solutions for security on CAN bus  Links and Resources: Connect with Ken Tindell on LinkedIn Visit Canis Automotive Labs' website Check out Ken’s Github Page Watch related podcast episodes:Better Performance and Enhanced Reliability in the Automotive Electronics industry Electronics Manufacturability and Reliability with QA Guru Cheryl Tulkoff      Get Your First Month of Altium Designer® for FREE

In this episode, we will learn so much about embedded CAN bus, for automobile security and performance straight from the water host, Ken Tindell the CTO of Canis Labs. A lot of interesting facts about cyber security and automobile hacking that you would not want to miss! Watch through the end and make sure to check the additional resources below. <a href="https://resources.altium.com/p/security-can-bus-ken-tindell" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Watch this episode</a> <a href="https://www.altium.com/promotions/first-month-free" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Get Your First Month of Altium Designer® for FREE</a> Show Highlights: <ul><li>Ken Tindell’s background and how he got started with CAN bus and CAN security</li> <li>Ken worked with Motorola on designing the MS CAN—the first CAN controller that did all the buffer scheduling correctly</li> <li>Ethernet and CAN coexist in autonomous vehicles’ architecture, Ken explains how</li> <li>There are two types of major attacks on the CAN bus: attacking the physical wiring and attacking the computer that has access to the wiring. Zac and Ken talk about the mind-blowing advanced techniques of hacking automobiles</li> <li>Story of irony. A friend of Ken in automobile cybersecurity had his car stolen</li> <li>The biggest car-hacking horror would be through the cloud — cloud-based APIs to phone and at the same time CAN bus protocol hacking on the transceiver pins</li> <li>CAN HD, an augmentation for high speed and guarding the CAN bus</li> <li>Canis Labs is in the works to provide real solutions for security on CAN bus</li> </ul> Links and Resources: <ul><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kentindell/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Connect with Ken Tindell on LinkedIn</a></li> <li><a href="https://canislabs.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Visit Canis Automotive Labs' website</a></li> <li><a href="https://kentindell.github.io/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Check out Ken’s Github Page</a></li> <li>Watch related podcast episodes: <ul><li><a href="https://resources.altium.com/better-performance-and-enhanced-reliability-automotive-electronics-industry" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Better Performance and Enhanced Reliability in the Automotive Electronics industry</a></li> <li><a href="https://resources.altium.com/p/electronics-manufacturability-and-reliability-qa-guru-cheryl-tulkoff" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Electronics Manufacturability and Reliability with QA Guru Cheryl Tulkoff</a></li> </ul> </li> </ul> <a href="https://www.altium.com/promotions/first-month-free" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Get Your First Month of Altium Designer® for FREE</a>

Security on CAN bus with Ken Tindell

As MPT [1] reports, Samsung just announced a new security chip for mobile phones [3], or -- as Cointelegraph refers to it [2] -- a "new chip to secure crypto transactions". In this episode I am talking with Ken Tindell about what this chip does and why it matters for (security) tokens and their custody.  https://www.mobilepaymentstoday.com/news/samsung-upgrades-security-chip-solution-for-mobile/ https://cointelegraph.com/news/samsungs-new-chip-to-secure-crypto-transactions-on-mobile-devices https://news.samsung.com/in/samsung-elevates-data-protection-for-mobile-devices-with-new-security-chip-solution  Dr Ken Tindell, CTO, Canis Automotive Labs. Ken is a technologist and entrepreneur. He holds a doctorate in real-time systems from the University of York and in the past has been the CTO of several startups. In the late 1990s he founded LiveDevices to develop embedded software for automotive applications and what we now call Internet-of-Things, and was subsequently acquired by Bosch. He also co-founded Volcano Communications Technologies, a joint venture with Volvo Cars and Motorola, that developed communications software for CAN bus and developed the LIN protocol, and was acquired by Mentor Graphics. He currently is the CTO of Canis Automotive Labs, a hardware IP company focused on securing communications and computation in automotive systems.  https://linkedin.com/in/kentindell https://twitter.com/kentindell (@kentindell) https://kentindell.github.io

As MPT [1] reports, Samsung just announced a new security chip for mobile phones [3], or -- as Cointelegraph refers to it [2] -- a "new chip to secure crypto transactions". In this episode I am talking with Ken Tindell about what this chip does and why it matters for (security) tokens and their custody. <ol> <li><a href="https://www.mobilepaymentstoday.com/news/samsung-upgrades-security-chip-solution-for-mobile/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.mobilepaymentstoday.com/news/samsung-upgrades-security-chip-solution-for-mobile/</a></li> <li><a href="https://cointelegraph.com/news/samsungs-new-chip-to-secure-crypto-transactions-on-mobile-devices" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://cointelegraph.com/news/samsungs-new-chip-to-secure-crypto-transactions-on-mobile-devices</a></li> <li><a href="https://news.samsung.com/in/samsung-elevates-data-protection-for-mobile-devices-with-new-security-chip-solution" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://news.samsung.com/in/samsung-elevates-data-protection-for-mobile-devices-with-new-security-chip-solution</a></li> </ol> Dr Ken Tindell, CTO, Canis Automotive Labs. Ken is a technologist and entrepreneur. He holds a doctorate in real-time systems from the University of York and in the past has been the CTO of several startups. In the late 1990s he founded LiveDevices to develop embedded software for automotive applications and what we now call Internet-of-Things, and was subsequently acquired by Bosch. He also co-founded Volcano Communications Technologies, a joint venture with Volvo Cars and Motorola, that developed communications software for CAN bus and developed the LIN protocol, and was acquired by Mentor Graphics. He currently is the CTO of Canis Automotive Labs, a hardware IP company focused on securing communications and computation in automotive systems. <ol> <li><a href="https://linkedin.com/in/kentindell" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://linkedin.com/in/kentindell</a></li> <li><a href="https://twitter.com/kentindell" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/kentindell</a> (@kentindell)</li> <li><a href="https://kentindell.github.io" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://kentindell.github.io</a></li></ol>

Samsung’s new mobile crypto chip (with Ken Tindell)

Episode 43 : Ken Tindell - Part 2

Episode 42 : Ken Tindell - Part 1