Darrin Fleming's guest appearances

Darrin Fleming

The Sales Conversation Podcast

Andy Paul

Stu Heinecke

Chris Ortolano

Tom Williams

Danny Brown

Mike Adams

Ryan O’Donnell

Chris Orlob

Bruce Scheer

Darrell Amy

Gerhard Gschwandtner

Sam Richter

Jeremy Diamond

Bernie Borges

Ed Bilat

OwlTail

David Svigel

LEAD

Episode Overview This episode, “How to lead in the buyer journey with Next Steps,” featured Darrin Fleming, David Svigel, Principals at ROI-Selling and me – Bruce Scheer. The three of us have been helping sellers for years in having more concerted next step conversations that are useful in leading and supporting the buyer through the buying process. Specifically, we have partnered together to help clients with creating assessments and value-selling tools that are useful in helping buyers see and communicate the case for change and create urgency around change initiative.   When Things Go Wrong (with no concerted Next Steps) There’s a typical scenario that we see all the time. A seller is talking to a buyer. They have a wonderful introductory meeting, and it seems like there's some excitement in the air, and then the seller says, “So, what do you think our next step should be?” And then the buyer typically says, “Well, send me some information. I'm going to host some internal meetings and kind of shop this idea around, and we'll get back to you.” And so, the seller agrees and spends a bunch of extra time gathering up and sending over information. And then, as one of our friends likes to say, the seller hears a thousand watts of silence! Nothing is happening on the buyer side. The seller chases a few times to ensure the information was received. No responses. Weeks go by. Finally, the seller gets lucky and catches the buyer by phone. And what do they hear? “Oh, sorry, man. Yeah, I have been really busy. We haven't looked at the stuff you sent and haven't had any meetings around it. Hmm. I'm kind of busy now. Can we talk another time?” And, then things just start to slide further South from there. This isn’t unusual, and we believe not having concerted next steps to lead the buyer is a strong contributor to the stat we’ve been hearing - 58% of deals ending in ‘no deal.’   When Things Go Right (with concerted Next Steps) I had worked on in a joint initiative between Hewlett Packard and Microsoft, where they had eight solutions that they had identified between them. They wanted a go-to-market program with a concerted selling approach. One of the solution areas was business intelligence, and if a customer engaged with them on it – it would result in a multi-million-dollar deal. We built introductory conversation materials for reps to use in securing a meeting. In the initial discussion, the seller would offer a concerted next step called the Executive Briefing. If the client was willing to sponsor the Executive Briefing, including making sure the right people attended, the Executive Briefing would be confirmed. HP and Microsoft would bring in their “Top Gun” experts to talk to those executives about what business intelligence would mean for their organization. At the conclusion of the Executive Briefing, additional next steps would be laid out for consideration and agreement. It normally included an assessment and business case-building process, and a strategic workshop to shape the initiative, roadmap and action plan for success. What we found was over a 50% deal connect rate when we when we went down this concerted next-steps path. All the folks involved in shaping this program won a marketing program of the year award.   Best Practices in Leading the Buying Journey with Next Steps It is important to put the seller in a position of leading the buyer towards next steps as opposed to the buyer leading the seller - which very often goes poorly because buyers are busy with their day jobs! The seller needs to be helping their buyers create the plan for the future, putting themselves in an advisory role to help define for the buyer what looks better in the future and how to get there. One of Bruce’s clients has a buyer journey map they show at every client touchpoint. They will highlight the journey and steps their customers typically take to embark on an initiative and leverage their software and services. They will get agreement around the series of steps, including an assessment and value analysis useful for helping their buyer create an internal case for change. After that’s established, they will move to a strategic planning workshop where they can further shape an initiative and make sure executives are fully aligned and bought in.   This is a very different orientation from the norm. Most organizations align their sellers around a sales process that’s self-serving. The better approach is more buyer-centric – thinking about what the buyer needs at each next stage of their buying journey, and how can you move the customer through that buying stage with concerted next steps.   Simple ‘Next Steps’ Planning Framework As you move through the buyer journey a few times, you start to be aware of natural junctures of what that buyer journey looks like, including some buyer-centric milestones along the way. There may be a stage where they want executives to be educated on the case and value of change. And maybe there's another step around strategy - what's the strategy to embark on this change initiative? Maybe there's another step about the initiative itself - who's going to be involved in this initiative? What's the roadmap look like in this initiative and, and what's timing around this initiative? Ask yourself these questions:  Outcomes - What are the outcomes that you're looking for at each one of these buying milestones? A few examples of outcomes would be key executives are educated on the opportunity and case for change, executives have agreed to a strategy and executives have agreed to provision resources for an initiative to be born. Activities - What are the activities that need to happen on the seller side and on the buyer side to make sure you're reaching the desired outcomes? Examples include assessments, value analyses, strategic workshops and initiative action planning meetings. Tools – What are the tools needed to support the key activities and desired outcomes at each stage, including Assessment Tools, ROI Calculators, Strategic Workshop Structure and Content, and marketing materials useful in selling each activity and tool as it’s introduced into the buying process.  In advance of a client meeting or call, it’s a best practice to do some mini-planning about what you want to discuss with the client and what are your desired outcomes and next steps you will introduce in the meeting.   Getting Your Next Steps in Place To get your next steps in place, you ask your peers and folks in marketing – what tools do they have that you can leverage? You might be pleasantly surprised that something either exists or perhaps marketing commissioned having something developed that didn’t see the light of day. Leverage what you can. Don't stop there though if concerted next step activities and tools don’t exist. You might have to cook something up yourself to fill the gap, and get support overtime in having more professional and branded support and tools.   Resources and Links for this Episode  Connect Darrin Fleming on LinkedIn Connect with David Svigel on LinkedIn View some ROI Selling Resources Surf the ROI-Selling Blog Join the Value Selling LinkedIn Group See some top-class ROI selling tools See a success story of a concerted next step for Brocade    For More Great Content I would appreciate it if you would subscribe, rate, and review this show at Apple Podcasts. Here’s a cool very short video that shows you how to do this. Your feedback is greatly appreciated and will help me promote the show to others who will benefit.   Credits Sound editing and show notes produced by – ChirpSound

Episode Overview This episode, “How to lead in the buyer journey with Next Steps,” featured Darrin Fleming, David Svigel, Principals at ROI-Selling and me – Bruce Scheer. The three of us have been helping sellers for years in having more concerted next step conversations that are useful in leading and supporting the buyer through the buying process. Specifically, we have partnered together to help clients with creating assessments and value-selling tools that are useful in helping buyers see and communicate the case for change and create urgency around change initiative. When Things Go Wrong (with no concerted Next Steps) There’s a typical scenario that we see all the time. A seller is talking to a buyer. They have a wonderful introductory meeting, and it seems like there's some excitement in the air, and then the seller says, “So, what do you think our next step should be?” And then the buyer typically says, “Well, send me some information. I'm going to host some internal meetings and kind of shop this idea around, and we'll get back to you.” And so, the seller agrees and spends a bunch of extra time gathering up and sending over information. And then, as one of our friends likes to say, the seller hears a thousand watts of silence! Nothing is happening on the buyer side. The seller chases a few times to ensure the information was received. No responses. Weeks go by. Finally, the seller gets lucky and catches the buyer by phone. And what do they hear? “Oh, sorry, man. Yeah, I have been really busy. We haven't looked at the stuff you sent and haven't had any meetings around it. Hmm. I'm kind of busy now. Can we talk another time?” And, then things just start to slide further South from there. This isn’t unusual, and we believe not having concerted next steps to lead the buyer is a strong contributor to the stat we’ve been hearing - 58% of deals ending in ‘no deal.’ When Things Go Right (with concerted Next Steps) I had worked on in a joint initiative between Hewlett Packard and Microsoft, where they had eight solutions that they had identified between them. They wanted a go-to-market program with a concerted selling approach. One of the solution areas was business intelligence, and if a customer engaged with them on it – it would result in a multi-million-dollar deal. We built introductory conversation materials for reps to use in securing a meeting. In the initial discussion, the seller would offer a concerted next step called the Executive Briefing. If the client was willing to sponsor the Executive Briefing, including making sure the right people attended, the Executive Briefing would be confirmed. HP and Microsoft would bring in their “Top Gun” experts to talk to those executives about what business intelligence would mean for their organization. At the conclusion of the Executive Briefing, additional next steps would be laid out for consideration and agreement. It normally included an assessment and business case-building process, and a strategic workshop to shape the initiative, roadmap and action plan for success. What we found was over a 50% deal connect rate when we when we went down this concerted next-steps path. All the folks involved in shaping this program won a marketing program of the year award. Best Practices in Leading the Buying Journey with Next Steps It is important to put the seller in a position of leading the buyer towards next steps as opposed to the buyer leading the seller - which very often goes poorly because buyers are busy with their day jobs! The seller needs to be helping their buyers create the plan for the future, putting themselves in an advisory role to help define for the buyer what looks better in the future and how to get there. One of Bruce’s clients has a buyer journey map they show at every client touchpoint. They will highlight the journey and steps their customers typically take to embark on an initiative and leverage their software and services. They will get agreement around the series of steps, including an assessment and value analysis useful for helping their buyer create an internal case for change. After that’s established, they will move to a strategic planning workshop where they can further shape an initiative and make sure executives are fully aligned and bought in. This is a very different orientation from the norm. Most organizations align their sellers around a sales process that’s self-serving. The better approach is more buyer-centric – thinking about what the buyer needs at each next stage of their buying journey, and how can you move the customer through that buying stage with concerted next steps. Simple ‘Next Steps’ Planning Framework As you move through the buyer journey a few times, you start to be aware of natural junctures of what that buyer journey looks like, including some buyer-centric milestones along the way. There may be a stage where they want executives to be educated on the case and value of change. And maybe there's another step around strategy - what's the strategy to embark on this change initiative? Maybe there's another step about the initiative itself - who's going to be involved in this initiative? What's the roadmap look like in this initiative and, and what's timing around this initiative? Ask yourself these questions: <ol> <li>Outcomes - What are the outcomes that you're looking for at each one of these buying milestones? A few examples of outcomes would be key executives are educated on the opportunity and case for change, executives have agreed to a strategy and executives have agreed to provision resources for an initiative to be born.</li> <li>Activities - What are the activities that need to happen on the seller side and on the buyer side to make sure you're reaching the desired outcomes? Examples include assessments, value analyses, strategic workshops and initiative action planning meetings.</li> <li>Tools – What are the tools needed to support the key activities and desired outcomes at each stage, including Assessment Tools, ROI Calculators, Strategic Workshop Structure and Content, and marketing materials useful in selling each activity and tool as it’s introduced into the buying process.</li> </ol> In advance of a client meeting or call, it’s a best practice to do some mini-planning about what you want to discuss with the client and what are your desired outcomes and next steps you will introduce in the meeting. Getting Your Next Steps in Place To get your next steps in place, you ask your peers and folks in marketing – what tools do they have that you can leverage? You might be pleasantly surprised that something either exists or perhaps marketing commissioned having something developed that didn’t see the light of day. Leverage what you can. Don't stop there though if concerted next step activities and tools don’t exist. You might have to cook something up yourself to fill the gap, and get support overtime in having more professional and branded support and tools. Resources and Links for this Episode <ul> <li>Connect Darrin Fleming on <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrinfleming/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a></li> <li>Connect with David Svigel on <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidsvigel" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a></li> <li>View some <a href="http://www.roi-selling.com/resources" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ROI Selling Resources</a></li> <li>Surf the <a href="http://www.roi-selling.com/blog" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ROI-Selling Blog</a></li> <li>Join the <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/groups/1805780" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Value Selling LinkedIn Group</a></li> <li>See some <a href="http://www.roi-selling.com/roi-tool" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">top-class ROI selling tools</a></li> <li>See a <a href="http://salesconversation.com/businessvalueproposition/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">success story of a concerted next step</a> for Brocade</li> </ul> For More Great Content I would appreciate it if you would subscribe, rate, and review this show at <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/podcasts/id525463029?mt=8" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Apple Podcasts</a>. Here’s a <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48So_81Dj_g" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">cool very short video</a> that shows you how to do this. Your feedback is greatly appreciated and will help me promote the show to others who will benefit. Credits Sound editing and show notes produced by – <a href="http://www.chirpsound.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ChirpSound</a>

How to Lead in the Buyer Journey with Next Steps with Darrin Fleming and David Svigel

Episode Overview Sellers struggle with selling business value. They are taught to sell products, but not how to sell based on business value. In this episode, my former college roommate, business partner, and lifelong friend, Darrin Fleming, speaks about why we should be selling based on business value. Darrin is the founder and CEO of ROI-Selling.com and a business leader with experience in marketing and sales across different sizes of businesses, from small companies to huge multinational corporations. He helps his clients build their strategic marketing capability, and is a specialist in honing his clients' business value propositions and assisting sellers to sell based on business value.   Episode Timestamps [1:55] How did you get involved in helping sellers with value selling?  Began as an economic evaluator for an engineering plant:     Evaluated projects and investments   Left manufacturing/engineering and moved into consulting:   He is now helping marketers and sellers with their value-based conversations. He’s also helping sellers help buyers with deciding on whether the product is a good investment.   Tom Siebel:   He challenged his product leads to make sure they had a tangible ROI as part of their product value proposition.      [4:07] Why is having a business value discussion a critical ingredient to the sales conversation?  Customers at some point need to do their own cost-justification when investing in an expensive product. It is essential to go beyond the product that you are selling, and it is necessary to talk about the problem that you are solving. It is even more critical to have a business case to garner buyer approval. Being able to quantify value and having a hard ROI– the business case can be the #1 catalyst. An ROI is a qualification tool that can help you focus your efforts on customers where you are going to deliver the most value.    [8:14] What are the different inhibitors that get in the way of sellers having a business value conversation?  Darrin spoke about a joke he uses when training sales reps mentioning he tells them the goal of the training program is to turn them into “accountants,” and that includes removing their personality. Again, it’s just a joke.     There’s a fear of working with quantifiable numbers.   Thinking about the way a company works as not a financial discussion:   How does a company make money? What are their drivers of financial success within their organization?      [14:03] What are the practical steps for helping sellers gain the ability to carry a business value conversation?  A lot of sales discussion is modeled around solving a problem from the customers perspective   Need to ask the questions:   How big is the problem? How much is it costing? What can we eliminate?     Is it a cost problem? Time problem? Quality problem?   To do this, you need to understand your customers business and how they make money. Approach with an income statement perspective.    [20:28] What should the audience do to learn more about value-based selling?  Darrin’s blog focuses on different aspects of value-based selling. Darrin’s Linkedin group helps to engage in conversation with topics on value-based selling.    Additional Resources To learn more about upping your game in selling based on business value, please visit Darrin's website and join him on Linkedin.   Darrin’s Website: http://www.roi-selling.com/resources   Blog: http://www.roi-selling.com/blog   Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrinfleming/ https://www.linkedin.com/groups/1805780   For More Great Content If you are finding this content valuable, visit us at thesalesconversationpodcast.com. I would appreciate it if you would subscribe, rate, and review this show on Apple Podcasts. Your feedback will be very much appreciated and will help me promote the show to others who will benefit.   Credits Sound editing and show notes produced by – ChirpSound

Episode Overview Sellers struggle with selling business value. They are taught to sell products, but not how to sell based on business value. In this episode, my former college roommate, business partner, and lifelong friend, Darrin Fleming, speaks about why we should be selling based on business value. Darrin is the founder and CEO of <a href="http://ROI-Selling.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ROI-Selling.com</a> and a business leader with experience in marketing and sales across different sizes of businesses, from small companies to huge multinational corporations. He helps his clients build their strategic marketing capability, and is a specialist in honing his clients' business value propositions and assisting sellers to sell based on business value. Episode Timestamps [1:55] How did you get involved in helping sellers with value selling? <ul> <li>Began as an economic evaluator for an engineering plant:</li> </ul> <ul> <li> <ul> <li>Evaluated projects and investments</li> </ul> </li> <li>Left manufacturing/engineering and moved into consulting:</li> <li> <ul> <li>He is now helping marketers and sellers with their value-based conversations.</li> <li>He’s also helping sellers help buyers with deciding on whether the product is a good investment.</li> </ul> </li> <li>Tom Siebel:</li> <li> <ul> <li>He challenged his product leads to make sure they had a tangible ROI as part of their product value proposition.</li> </ul> </li> </ul> [4:07] Why is having a business value discussion a critical ingredient to the sales conversation? <ul> <li>Customers at some point need to do their own cost-justification when investing in an expensive product.</li> <li>It is essential to go beyond the product that you are selling, and it is necessary to talk about the problem that you are solving. It is even more critical to have a business case to garner buyer approval.</li> <li>Being able to quantify value and having a hard ROI– the business case can be the #1 catalyst.</li> <li>An ROI is a qualification tool that can help you focus your efforts on customers where you are going to deliver the most value.</li> </ul> [8:14] What are the different inhibitors that get in the way of sellers having a business value conversation? <ul> <li>Darrin spoke about a joke he uses when training sales reps mentioning he tells them the goal of the training program is to turn them into “accountants,” and that includes removing their personality. Again, it’s just a joke.</li> </ul> <ul> <li> <ul> <li>There’s a fear of working with quantifiable numbers.</li> </ul> </li> <li>Thinking about the way a company works as not a financial discussion:</li> <li> <ul> <li>How does a company make money?</li> <li>What are their drivers of financial success within their organization?</li> </ul> </li> </ul> [14:03] What are the practical steps for helping sellers gain the ability to carry a business value conversation? <ul> <li>A lot of sales discussion is modeled around solving a problem from the customers perspective</li> </ul> <ul> <li>Need to ask the questions:</li> </ul> <ul> <li>How big is the problem?</li> <li>How much is it costing?</li> <li>What can we eliminate?</li> </ul> <ul> <li> <ul> <li>Is it a cost problem? Time problem? Quality problem?</li> </ul> </li> <li>To do this, you need to understand your customers business and how they make money.</li> <li>Approach with an income statement perspective.</li> </ul> [20:28] What should the audience do to learn more about value-based selling? <ul> <li>Darrin’s blog focuses on different aspects of value-based selling.</li> <li>Darrin’s Linkedin group helps to engage in conversation with topics on value-based selling.</li> </ul> Additional Resources To learn more about upping your game in selling based on business value, please visit Darrin's website and join him on Linkedin. Darrin’s Website: <a href="http://www.roi-selling.com/resources" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.roi-selling.com/resources</a> Blog: <a href="http://www.roi-selling.com/blog" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.roi-selling.com/blog</a> Linkedin: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrinfleming/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrinfleming/</a> <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/groups/1805780" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/groups/1805780</a> For More Great Content If you are finding this content valuable, visit us at <a href="http://thesalesconversationpodcast.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">thesalesconversationpodcast.com</a>. I would appreciate it if you would subscribe, rate, and review this show on Apple Podcasts. Your feedback will be very much appreciated and will help me promote the show to others who will benefit. Credits Sound editing and show notes produced by – <a href="http://www.chirpsound.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ChirpSound</a>

How to Sell Based on Business Value with Darrin Fleming