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Jennie Pakula

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A conversation confronting life's injustices where we find something bigger

Can I get justice? | Jennie Pakula

Today’s guest is Jennie Pakula, Manager of Innovation and Consumer Engagement at the Victorian Legal Services Board + Commissioner.  Jennie describes The Victorian Legal Services Board + Commissioner as a modern regulator who is trying to perform their role in a risk-based, innovative and consumer-focused way.  Jennie’s unique role sees her spending her time understanding the barriers to legal innovation and do what she can to get rid of them.  What I love most about Jennie’s approach is that she is shifting the perspective. Instead of asking what a lawyer is doing wrong, she’s instead asking about the problem that consumers are experiencing and then working with the profession to better meet those needs.  We talk about the common complaints that Jennie sees in her role, with around 50% of complaints being around issues that really boil down to poor customer service.  We also debunk some myths – is regulation really holding back innovation in the profession? We consider that question in the context of pricing, commoditised legal services and the dreaded information vs advice conundrum.   About Jennie Pakula  Jennie Pakula was admitted to legal practice in December 1988. She has worked in legal services regulation in NSW and Victoria since 1994. She has interacted with hundreds of lawyers and consumers, and while managing the front end of the complaints and enquiries function, she read over 14,000 client complaints. Jennie has written numerous articles and guidance tools to help lawyers overcome common problems, avoid complaints and practice law better. She also regularly participates in conferences and presentations aimed at helping lawyers to understand issues in regulation, consumer protection and innovation. Jennie is currently Manager, Innovation and Consumer Engagement at the Victorian Legal Services Board + Commissioner. She is driven by the goal of helping to foster more accessible and affordable legal services for average people.  Links  Connect with Jennie Pakula on LinkedIn Find out more about innovation at the Victorian Legal Services Board + Commissioner Carly Stebbing on the Doing Law Differently Podcast Clarissa Rayward on the Doing Law Differently Podcast  Jennie Pakula quotes  “One of the big things that I’ve observed in many years of looking at complaints is how much of a disconnect there is between what lawyers think they’re selling and what clients think they’re buying.” “A lot of the regulatory barriers that people think are there are imaginary rather than actual. A great example is around pricing of legal services. There’s a lot of people who think that you have to record your time and charge by the hourly rate, but that’s not the case at all.” “There’s a sense in which people mistake the conventional and traditional way of doing things to what’s required in regulation. The regulation is a lot more flexible.” “Lawyers have a mindset of caution and risk aversion. We don’t want to do the wrong thing … there’s a lack of a feeling of freedom to try to do something differently and to try to do things better.” “If you want to do something differently, you’ve got to be confident, competent, smart, wise, have a careful look at what you are and aren’t permitted to do.” “Sometimes people expect the big law firms to lead innovation, but that is just not the way innovation works. It always comes from the maverick outsiders.”  “Pricing is really a key factor in innovation because if you think you have to do things by the hourly rate, you have no incentive to be faster and more efficient.” “There’s a lot of people that are just realising that the existing model that we’ve got for law firms simply isn’t sustainable anymore, so there’s a lot of room for automation, commoditisation, and just reimagining and repackaging how valuable services can be provided.” “As lawyers we’re interested in thinking about ‘how is this case unique?’ We should be thinking more about ‘how is this case the same?’”  My new book – It’s Time To Do Law Differently My new book It’s Time to Do Law Differently: How to Reshape Your Firm and Regain Your Life is now available! You can get your signed copy here. In It’s Time to Do Law Differently, I share my six-step blueprint for transforming your law firm. Learn how to move from a traditional practice to a productised ecosystem and as a bonus, you might just get that quality lifestyle that you’ve been craving. If you haven’t got your copy yet, you can get a signed copy here or find the paper back and ebook on Amazon, Booktopia or your favourite online bookstore. Like this show?  Please leave me a rating and review on Apple Podcasts – even one sentence helps other people to find out about the show! Never miss an episode – subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts or SpotifyIf you’re doing law differently and want to share your insights on the podcast, get in touch here.Download my latest e-book, 80 ways to modernise your law firm, full of short, sharp and practical tips to help you firm your foundations, sort your strategy and optimise your operations  Connect with me on LinkedIn The post Regulatory Barrier Busting with Jennie Pakula (ep 68) appeared first on Lucy Dickens.

Today’s guest is Jennie Pakula, Manager of Innovation and Consumer Engagement at the Victorian Legal Services Board + Commissioner.  Jennie describes The Victorian Legal Services Board + Commissioner as a modern regulator who is trying to perform their role in a risk-based, innovative and consumer-focused way.  Jennie’s unique role sees her spending her time understanding the barriers to legal innovation and do what she can to get rid of them.  What I love most about Jennie’s approach is that she is shifting the perspective. Instead of asking what a lawyer is doing wrong, she’s instead asking about the problem that consumers are experiencing and then working with the profession to better meet those needs.  We talk about the common complaints that Jennie sees in her role, with around 50% of complaints being around issues that really boil down to poor customer service.  We also debunk some myths – is regulation really holding back innovation in the profession? We consider that question in the context of pricing, commoditised legal services and the dreaded information vs advice conundrum.   About Jennie Pakula Jennie Pakula was admitted to legal practice in December 1988. She has worked in legal services regulation in NSW and Victoria since 1994. She has interacted with hundreds of lawyers and consumers, and while managing the front end of the complaints and enquiries function, she read over 14,000 client complaints.  Jennie has written numerous articles and guidance tools to help lawyers overcome common problems, avoid complaints and practice law better. She also regularly participates in conferences and presentations aimed at helping lawyers to understand issues in regulation, consumer protection and innovation.  Jennie is currently Manager, Innovation and Consumer Engagement at the Victorian Legal Services Board + Commissioner. She is driven by the goal of helping to foster more accessible and affordable legal services for average people.  Links <ul><li><a href="https://lsbc.vic.gov.au/lawyers/innovation-0%20%20https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennie-pakula-6994253a/" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow" target="_blank">Connect with Jennie Pakula on LinkedIn</a> </li><li>Find out more about innovation at the <a href="https://lsbc.vic.gov.au/lawyers/innovation-0" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow" target="_blank">Victorian Legal Services Board + Commissioner</a> </li><li><a href="https://www.lucydickens.com.au/33" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow" target="_blank">Carly Stebbing on the Doing Law Differently Podcast</a> </li><li><a href="https://www.lucydickens.com.au/59" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow" target="_blank">Clarissa Rayward on the Doing Law Differently Podcast</a> </li></ul> Jennie Pakula quotes <ul><li>“One of the big things that I’ve observed in many years of looking at complaints is how much of a disconnect there is between what lawyers think they’re selling and what clients think they’re buying.” </li><li>“A lot of the regulatory barriers that people think are there are imaginary rather than actual. A great example is around pricing of legal services. There’s a lot of people who think that you have to record your time and charge by the hourly rate, but that’s not the case at all.” </li><li>“There’s a sense in which people mistake the conventional and traditional way of doing things to what’s required in regulation. The regulation is a lot more flexible.” </li><li>“Lawyers have a mindset of caution and risk aversion. We don’t want to do the wrong thing … there’s a lack of a feeling of freedom to try to do something differently and to try to do things better.” </li><li>“If you want to do something differently, you’ve got to be confident, competent, smart, wise, have a careful look at what you are and aren’t permitted to do.” </li><li>“Sometimes people expect the big law firms to lead innovation, but that is just not the way innovation works. It always comes from the maverick outsiders.”  </li><li>“Pricing is really a key factor in innovation because if you think you have to do things by the hourly rate, you have no incentive to be faster and more efficient.” </li><li>“There’s a lot of people that are just realising that the existing model that we’ve got for law firms simply isn’t sustainable anymore, so there’s a lot of room for automation, commoditisation, and just reimagining and repackaging how valuable services can be provided.” </li><li>“As lawyers we’re interested in thinking about ‘how is this case unique?’ We should be thinking more about ‘how is this case the same?’” </li></ul> <h2>My new book – It’s Time To Do Law Differently</h2> My new book It’s Time to Do Law Differently: How to Reshape Your Firm and Regain Your Life is now available! You can <a href="https://www.lucydickens.com.au/book" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow" target="_blank">get your signed copy here</a>. In <a href="https://www.lucydickens.com.au/book" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow" target="_blank">It’s Time to Do Law Differently</a>, I share my six-step blueprint for transforming your law firm. Learn how to move from a traditional practice to a productised ecosystem and as a bonus, you might just get that quality lifestyle that you’ve been craving. If you haven’t got your copy yet, you can get <a href="https://www.lucydickens.com.au/book" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">a signed copy here</a> or find the paper back and ebook on <a href="https://www.amazon.com.au/Its-Time-Do-Law-Differently-ebook/dp/B08LX5XPFB/ref=zg_bs_4898896051_5?_encoding=UTF8&amp;psc=1&amp;refRID=E030H7WMRQFE5WRYMXS0" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow" target="_blank">Amazon</a>, <a href="https://www.booktopia.com.au/it-s-time-to-do-law-differently-lucy-dickens/book/9781922391612.html" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow" target="_blank">Booktopia </a>or your favourite online bookstore. <h3>Like this show? </h3> <ul><li>Please leave me a rating and review on <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/doing-law-differently/id1472993329?ign-mpt=uo%3D4" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow" target="_blank">Apple Podcasts</a> – even one sentence helps other people to find out about the show! </li><li>Never miss an episode – subscribe on <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/doing-law-differently/id1472993329?ign-mpt=uo%3D4" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow" target="_blank">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubHVjeWRpY2tlbnMuY29tLmF1L2NhdGVnb3J5L2RvaW5nLWxhdy1kaWZmZXJlbnRseS9mZWVkLw%3D%3D" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow" target="_blank">Google Podcasts</a> or <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/6CkLElXhiU4YeImdh3TnIq" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow" target="_blank">Spotify</a></li><li>If you’re doing law differently and want to share your insights on the podcast, <a href="https://www.lucydickens.com.au/doing-law-differently/guest-application/" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow" target="_blank">get in touch here.</a></li><li><a href="https://mailchi.mp/4d66829db99f/80tips" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow" target="_blank">Download my latest e-book</a>, 80 ways to modernise your law firm, full of short, sharp and practical tips to help you firm your foundations, sort your strategy and optimise your operations  </li><li>Connect with me on <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucy-dickens/" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a></li></ul> The post <a href="https://www.lucydickens.com.au/regulatory-barrier-busting-with-jennie-pakula-ep-68/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Regulatory Barrier Busting with Jennie Pakula (ep 68)</a> appeared first on <a href="https://www.lucydickens.com.au" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lucy Dickens</a>.

Regulatory Barrier Busting with Jennie Pakula (ep 68)

In this episode no. 32 I speak with Jennie Pakula, Manager of Innovation &amp; Consumer Engagement at the Victorian Legal Services Board and Commissioner. We covered a lot of ground in this interview, charting the role of regulator from traditional disciplinarian to modern stakeholder solving challenges of both clients and lawyers; examples of effective uses of technology in the profession; and the purpose of a regulatory inbox. We covered the kinds of issues lawyers are looking to professional and regulatory bodies for guidance upon, including the whole legal information/advice divide and where issues arise regarding unauthorised practice of law. Jennie was very open in sharing the kinds of questions that come into the regulatory inbox, which will provide insight into the type of innovation currently moving the profession forward. Jennie discussed the work of the new consumer advisory committee at the commission and whether regulation has actually been fulfilling its true role in protecting the consumer. Jennie has been an innovator for many years and is passionate about making legal services better. Her “great desire is to see lawyers reinventing legal practice so that it meets the needs of a whole new market of consumers.” After being admitted to practice in 1988 Jennie spent around 5 years in commercial law before joining the NSW Law Society in 1994, where she worked in ethics and complaints for 12 years. In 2006 Jennie moved to Melbourne and then took up a role at the Victorian Legal Services Commissioner where for 8 years she managed the front end of the complaints and enquiries process, reading a whopping 14,000 complaints.  In December 2018 Jennie was very happily appointed to the new role of Manager, Innovation &amp; Consumer Engagement. You should listen to this episode if you are concerned that the innovation you are considering for your practice may breach current rules of professional regulation; if you would like to know the best way to approach your state regulator with your ideas; what kinds of technological applications are unlikely to fall foul of current regulation and how the Victorian regulator at least is working with the profession to address the emerging needs of lawyers and clients. I’m very grateful to Neota Logic for sponsoring the podcast. Neota Logic is a leading no-code AI automation platform, providing professionals with a wide range of easy-to-use tools to rapidly build applications that automate any aspect of their services. Today’s episode is a conversation about the relationship between consumers, lawyers, technology and ethics, all of which will remain live issues, if not become more important as this current crisis continues, and resolves… This episode brought to you by Neota Logic. Links:  Victoria Legal Services Board and Commission  Aurecon Neota Logic  Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In this episode no. 32 I speak with Jennie Pakula, Manager of Innovation &amp; Consumer Engagement at the Victorian Legal Services Board and Commissioner. We covered a lot of ground in this interview, charting the role of regulator from traditional disciplinarian to modern stakeholder solving challenges of both clients and lawyers; examples of effective uses of technology in the profession; and the purpose of a regulatory inbox. We covered the kinds of issues lawyers are looking to professional and regulatory bodies for guidance upon, including the whole legal information/advice divide and where issues arise regarding unauthorised practice of law. Jennie was very open in sharing the kinds of questions that come into the regulatory inbox, which will provide insight into the type of innovation currently moving the profession forward. Jennie discussed the work of the new consumer advisory committee at the commission and whether regulation has actually been fulfilling its true role in protecting the consumer. Jennie has been an innovator for many years and is passionate about making legal services better. Her “great desire is to see lawyers reinventing legal practice so that it meets the needs of a whole new market of consumers.” After being admitted to practice in 1988 Jennie spent around 5 years in commercial law before joining the NSW Law Society in 1994, where she worked in ethics and complaints for 12 years. In 2006 Jennie moved to Melbourne and then took up a role at the Victorian Legal Services Commissioner where for 8 years she managed the front end of the complaints and enquiries process, reading a whopping 14,000 complaints.  In December 2018 Jennie was very happily appointed to the new role of Manager, Innovation &amp; Consumer Engagement. You should listen to this episode if you are concerned that the innovation you are considering for your practice may breach current rules of professional regulation; if you would like to know the best way to approach your state regulator with your ideas; what kinds of technological applications are unlikely to fall foul of current regulation and how the Victorian regulator at least is working with the profession to address the emerging needs of lawyers and clients. I’m very grateful to Neota Logic for sponsoring the podcast. Neota Logic is a leading no-code AI automation platform, providing professionals with a wide range of easy-to-use tools to rapidly build applications that automate any aspect of their services. Today’s episode is a conversation about the relationship between consumers, lawyers, technology and ethics, all of which will remain live issues, if not become more important as this current crisis continues, and resolves… This episode brought to you by Neota Logic. Links: <ul> <li><a href="https://www.lsbc.vic.gov.au/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Victoria Legal Services Board and Commission</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.aurecongroup.com/about/latest-news/2020/february/aurecon-philippines-visual-employment-contract" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Aurecon</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.neotalogic.com/canvas/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Neota Logic</a></li> </ul> Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – <a href="../../../content/andreaperrypetersen.com.au" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">andreaperrypetersen.com.au</a> Twitter - <a href="https://twitter.com/ReimaginingJ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@ReimaginingJ</a> Facebook – <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/276766929638522/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Reimagining Justice group</a>

How one legal practice regulator is effectively engaging with lawyers and consumers with Jennie Pakula