Douglas Paal's guest appearances

Douglas Paal

China in the World

NCUSCR Events

TBS eFM This Morning

Deep in the SEA with Mirko Giordani

Donald Trump

Susan Thornton

Paul Haenle

Kaiser Kuo

Stephen Hadley

Jake Sullivan

Paul Triolo

Graham Allison

Evan Medeiros

Penny Pritzker

Chris Hill

Jia Qingguo

Kishore Mahbubani

Muhammad Habib

John Bellinger

OwlTail

Maybe Mark Esper didn't say precisely that ASEAN need to evolve into a Nato-style alliance, but that was the sense practically. However Douglas Paal, a great friend of this podcast, said that only ignorant American policy makers and analysts can believe in such an alliance. When Dulles tried to dictate security policy in the region, he refused to send air conditioning appliances to the US Embassy in Bangkok because he believed that the city was not so hot in the summer. The Americans that believe in a Nato-style alliance in SEA are making the same clumsy mistake of Dulles.

A Nato-style alliance in Southeast Asia: no way it can happen - With Douglas Paal

Douglas H. Paal is a distinguished fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. He previously served as vice chairman of JPMorgan Chase International (2006–2008). He was on the National Security Council staffs of Presidents Reagan and George H. W. Bush between 1986 and 1993 as director of Asian Affairs and then as senior director and special assistant to the president. According to Mr. Paal, from 1980 until mid-1990, ASEAN countries were more compliant and receptive about human and labor rights records. This has happened because the US, Europe and Japan were the principal trade partners of ASEAN countries and they pretended such high standards. Nowadays China appears to be the dominant actor in the region and Southeast Asian countries have leverage against the western moralistic approach regarding trade deals. However, despite demanding high labor and human rights standard in exchange of trade advantages is not negative at all, in some cases, it can be wrong and even paternalistic: this is the case of palm oil. Indonesia and Malaysia, in fact, are de facto blocking the creation of a strategic partnership between ASEAN and EU because the latter is not willing to buy palm oil over unjustified health and environmental issues. According to Paal, on the palm oil issue science is absolutely in the side of Indonesia and Malaysia.Speaking about the American engagement with Southeast Asia, Mr Paal reminded the period between 1980 and late 1990, when American investment bankers and businessmen were flooding in Jakarta, Singapore and Bangkok hotels to finalize important deals. Southeast Asia was considered back then the future of the world economy, until 1997, when the bubble burst. From that point, the US attention shifted to China and only once in a blue moon an American official lands in Southeast Asia, as Mike Pompeo did some weeks ago. On the contrary, EU and single European countries, like Germany, Italy and France, can be better-positioned towards Southeast Asia. However, they lack in strategic approach and their moves seem more tactical and not long-term oriented. In addition, southern countries like Greece, Italy and Spain are getting so much entangled with China and BRI that they need to keep their partnerships with Southeast Asia to a lower level than in the past.

Douglas H. Paal is a distinguished fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. He previously served as vice chairman of JPMorgan Chase International (2006–2008). He was on the National Security Council staffs of Presidents Reagan and George H. W. Bush between 1986 and 1993 as director of Asian Affairs and then as senior director and special assistant to the president. According to Mr. Paal, from 1980 until mid-1990, ASEAN countries were more compliant and receptive about human and labor rights records. This has happened because the US, Europe and Japan were the principal trade partners of ASEAN countries and they pretended such high standards. Nowadays China appears to be the dominant actor in the region and Southeast Asian countries have leverage against the western moralistic approach regarding trade deals. However, despite demanding high labor and human rights standard in exchange of trade advantages is not negative at all, in some cases, it can be wrong and even paternalistic: this is the case of palm oil. Indonesia and Malaysia, in fact, are de facto blocking the creation of a strategic partnership between ASEAN and EU because the latter is not willing to buy palm oil over unjustified health and environmental issues. According to Paal, on the palm oil issue science is absolutely in the side of Indonesia and Malaysia. Speaking about the American engagement with Southeast Asia, Mr Paal reminded the period between 1980 and late 1990, when American investment bankers and businessmen were flooding in Jakarta, Singapore and Bangkok hotels to finalize important deals. Southeast Asia was considered back then the future of the world economy, until 1997, when the bubble burst. From that point, the US attention shifted to China and only once in a blue moon an American official lands in Southeast Asia, as Mike Pompeo did some weeks ago. On the contrary, EU and single European countries, like Germany, Italy and France, can be better-positioned towards Southeast Asia. However, they lack in strategic approach and their moves seem more tactical and not long-term oriented. In addition, southern countries like Greece, Italy and Spain are getting so much entangled with China and BRI that they need to keep their partnerships with Southeast Asia to a lower level than in the past.

"On palm oil, EU is wrong and science is on the side of Indonesia and Malaysia" - With Douglas Paal

Carnegie Endowment Vice President for Asian Studies Douglas Paal discusses the current international environment informing US foreign policy, developments in cross-Strait relations, and prospects for US policy toward China in the next administration.

Carnegie Endowment Vice President for Asian Studies Douglas Paal discusses the current international environment informing US foreign policy, developments in cross-Strait relations, and prospects for US policy toward China in the next administration.

Douglas Paal on China